Why aren’t they demanding that Hamas surrender, instead?

Guno צְבִי

Guno צְבִי

We fight, We win
I have some questions for my colleagues on the left.

We’ve worked together for years. We’ve had happy hours and coffees, and taken our kids on playdates. We’ve worked to pass bills and elect public servants together. We have marched together, celebrated and mourned together.

We have carefully avoided the subject of Israel, and when we have discussed it, we have set firm boundaries to assure our friendships weren’t destroyed.


Now we can avoid it no longer.

Many of you are demanding a cease-fire. I can understand why.

I too mourn the loss of innocent life, especially the children. The loss of entire families in Gaza fills me with grief. I have supported peace my whole life.

But I am not ready to advocate for a cease-fire. And I have some questions for you about why you think you should.

I am struck by the fact that while calls for a cease-fire are loud, few seem to have any clarity about what conditions a cease-fire should require. Hamas’ record with cease-fires is less than reassuring: Just weeks ago Hamas broke a cease-fire in order to launch a horrific attack on Israeli civilians during a national holiday. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said that a cease-fire would be a “gift” to Hamas, as they would only use it to rebuild and repair their capacity to launch attacks. And senior Hamas officials have openly said they aim to repeat these terror attacks “over and over” until “Israel is destroyed.”



https://forward.com/opinion/568121/cease-fire-leftists-hamas-israel-war/
 
guno said:
I have some questions for my colleagues on the left.

We’ve worked together for years. We’ve had happy hours and coffees, and taken our kids on playdates. We’ve worked to pass bills and elect public servants together. We have marched together, celebrated and mourned together.

We have carefully avoided the subject of Israel, and when we have discussed it, we have set firm boundaries to assure our friendships weren’t destroyed.


Now we can avoid it no longer.

Many of you are demanding a cease-fire. I can understand why.

I too mourn the loss of innocent life, especially the children. The loss of entire families in Gaza fills me with grief. I have supported peace my whole life.

But I am not ready to advocate for a cease-fire. And I have some questions for you about why you think you should.

I am struck by the fact that while calls for a cease-fire are loud, few seem to have any clarity about what conditions a cease-fire should require. Hamas’ record with cease-fires is less than reassuring: Just weeks ago Hamas broke a cease-fire in order to launch a horrific attack on Israeli civilians during a national holiday. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said that a cease-fire would be a “gift” to Hamas, as they would only use it to rebuild and repair their capacity to launch attacks. And senior Hamas officials have openly said they aim to repeat these terror attacks “over and over” until “Israel is destroyed.”



https://forward.com/opinion/568121/cease-fire-leftists-hamas-israel-war/
Click to expand...

Tough, tough position. In my opinion there should be three goals, Israel believes there should only be one. Demanding that Hamas surrender and is pointless. As for a cease fire the question for me is ‘what is the goal and would a ceasefire accomplish that?’ The first part is easy. Get aide to the Palestinians and get as many hostages back as possible. Can a ceasefire accomplish that? I think the answer is probably no. Bottom line this is an incredibly complex situation. We should act in our best interest. That means supporting Israel but tempering that with OUR other goals.
 
Concart said:
Tough, tough position. In my opinion there should be three goals, Israel believes there should only be one. Demanding that Hamas surrender and is pointless. As for a cease fire the question for me is ‘what is the goal and would a ceasefire accomplish that?’ The first part is easy. Get aide to the Palestinians and get as many hostages back as possible. Can a ceasefire accomplish that? I think the answer is probably no. Bottom line this is an incredibly complex situation. We should act in our best interest. That means supporting Israel but tempering that with OUR other goals.
Click to expand...

A true catastrophe
 
guno said:
I have some questions for my colleagues on the left.

We’ve worked together for years. We’ve had happy hours and coffees, and taken our kids on playdates. We’ve worked to pass bills and elect public servants together. We have marched together, celebrated and mourned together.

We have carefully avoided the subject of Israel, and when we have discussed it, we have set firm boundaries to assure our friendships weren’t destroyed.


Now we can avoid it no longer.

Many of you are demanding a cease-fire. I can understand why.

I too mourn the loss of innocent life, especially the children. The loss of entire families in Gaza fills me with grief. I have supported peace my whole life.

But I am not ready to advocate for a cease-fire. And I have some questions for you about why you think you should.

I am struck by the fact that while calls for a cease-fire are loud, few seem to have any clarity about what conditions a cease-fire should require. Hamas’ record with cease-fires is less than reassuring: Just weeks ago Hamas broke a cease-fire in order to launch a horrific attack on Israeli civilians during a national holiday. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said that a cease-fire would be a “gift” to Hamas, as they would only use it to rebuild and repair their capacity to launch attacks. And senior Hamas officials have openly said they aim to repeat these terror attacks “over and over” until “Israel is destroyed.”



https://forward.com/opinion/568121/cease-fire-leftists-hamas-israel-war/
Click to expand...

What would that look like? Hamas is not currently attacking? They are super weak and have no power other than a sneak attack when nobody is looking.

Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted, a superior power funded by the west aggressively pounding them. THey are like Trump, always playing the aggrieved.
 
Jarod said:
What would that look like? Hamas is not currently attacking? They are super weak and have no power other than a sneak attack when nobody is looking.

Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted, a superior power funded by the west aggressively pounding them. THey are like Trump, always playing the aggrieved.
Click to expand...

You're a fucking dunce. What they did was a well funded well organized operation which perfectly aligns with their explicit goal of killing every Jew on the planet. They freely choose to use Palestinian civilians as shields so they can wage a PR war against Jews and sadly people like you are all too eager to buy their bullshit. EVERYTHING that has transpired and will continue to transpire is the directly result of choices made by hamas and no one else.
 
Concart said:
Tough, tough position. In my opinion there should be three goals, Israel believes there should only be one. Demanding that Hamas surrender and is pointless. As for a cease fire the question for me is ‘what is the goal and would a ceasefire accomplish that?’ The first part is easy. Get aide to the Palestinians and get as many hostages back as possible. Can a ceasefire accomplish that? I think the answer is probably no. Bottom line this is an incredibly complex situation. We should act in our best interest. That means supporting Israel but tempering that with OUR other goals.
Click to expand...

This not complex in the least. Hamas is a terrorist group with one of it's explicit goals being the complete annihilation of Jews from the face of the earth. Explain why Israel should consider a ceasefire with such a group? Hamas is a rabid dog. Israel has been able to retrain. I think the only reason Israel hasn't already done what we know needs to be done to a rabid dog is because they know the whining would be never ending.
 
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Yakuda said:
You're a fucking dunce. What they did was a well funded well organized operation which perfectly aligns with their explicit goal of killing every Jew on the planet. They freely choose to use Palestinian civilians as shields so they can wage a PR war against Jews and sadly people like you are all too eager to buy their bullshit. EVERYTHING that has transpired and will continue to transpire is the directly result of choices made by hamas and no one else.
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I agree with the bolded part, but these people are not dumb, they want Israel to come in with tanks and kill Muslims, its their goal to cause the next generation to continue hating Jews. They are going to get it.

These are the choices of Hamas, you are correct. And they are getting what they wanted.

Do you know the story of Tar Baby? Its the same story of Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Jarod said:
I agree with the bolded part, but these people are not dumb, they want Israel to come in with tanks and kill Muslims, its their goal to cause the next generation to continue hating Jews. They are going to get it.

These are the choices of Hamas, you are correct. And they are getting what they wanted.

Do you know the story of Tar Baby? Its the same story of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Ah yes very clever. The Jews are giving hamas exactly what they want so the Jews should do nothing and as a result Hamas and the next generation of muslims will love the Jews and live in complete harmony with Israel, as soon as there isnt a Jew remaining on the planet.
 
Yakuda said:
Ah yes very clever. The Jews are giving hamas exactly what they want so the Jews should do nothing and as a result Hamas and the next generation of muslims will love the Jews and live in complete harmony with Israel.
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I did not say that, I don't know what they should do. I can however see what is happening.
 
Jarod said:
I did not say that, I don't know what they should do. I can however see what is happening.
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There aren't many options Jarod. They could fight back, do nothing or beg Hamas and the next generation of Muslims not to kill them. Now even though I say otherwise I know there not a fucking idiot Jarod. To say "I don't know what they should do" is a ridiculous response. The fact is Hamas and the next generation of Muslims will hate Israel no matter what they do so Israel should only do what best ensures their survival.
 
Yakuda said:
There aren't many options Jarod. They could fight back, do nothing or beg Hamas and the next generation of Muslims not to kill them. Now even though I say otherwise I know there not a fucking idiot Jarod. To say "I don't know what they should do" is a ridiculous response. The fact is Hamas and the next generation of Muslims will hate Israel no matter what they do so Israel should only do what best ensures their survival.
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Id like to work on a long term solution, not a continuation of the 1000's of years of this fight.
 
I wish Israel was not being run by an EVIL man at this time

There would be far fewer innocents losing their lives in this stupid religious murder and power spree
 
Jarod said:
Id like to work on a long term solution, not a continuation of the 1000's of years of this fight.
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Ok fair enough. Throw out an idea. What would make Hamas stop wanting to eradicate Jews from the face of the earth? See I think that's a MAJOR stumbling block but I'm the idiot. Help me out.
 
Jarod said:
What would that look like? Hamas is not currently attacking? They are super weak and have no power other than a sneak attack when nobody is looking.

Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted, a superior power funded by the west aggressively pounding them. THey are like Trump, always playing the aggrieved.
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Rockets still coming into Israel
 
And Nuttinbuttayahoo will use it all to kill as many non Jews as he can

Hell even the Jews stuck there
 
I don't think you can realistically negotiate with a terrorist group that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and has been for decades
 
Yakuda said:
You're a fucking dunce. What they did was a well funded well organized operation which perfectly aligns with their explicit goal of killing every Jew on the planet. They freely choose to use Palestinian civilians as shields so they can wage a PR war against Jews and sadly people like you are all too eager to buy their bullshit. EVERYTHING that has transpired and will continue to transpire is the directly result of choices made by hamas and no one else.
Click to expand...

Jarot, like Hamas, is always playing the lies......
 
Yakuda said:
Ah yes very clever. The Jews are giving hamas exactly what they want so the Jews should do nothing and as a result Hamas and the next generation of muslims will love the Jews and live in complete harmony with Israel, as soon as there isnt a Jew remaining on the planet.
Click to expand...

not destroying Hamas is letting Hamas get what it wants......what Hamas wants is the lib'rul West blocking Israel from ending Hamas.....
 
Jarod said:
Id like to work on a long term solution, not a continuation of the 1000's of years of this fight.
Click to expand...

preventing Israel from acting IS the continuation......and its not a thousand years.......the Jews and Palestinians weren't fighting before 1940....
 
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