Why do Hebrews Deny Jesus When He is Clearly in the Christian Bible?
- Thread starter IBDaMann
- Start date
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
I've got IBDaMann on ignore, oi course,
but I have to admit that his thread title is a pretty good call back,
even though it's meaningless to me.
but I have to admit that his thread title is a pretty good call back,
even though it's meaningless to me.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Commander Dutch
Sworn to support and defend the Constitution
WWJD?
Blackwater Lunchbreak
Verified User
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I see your subliminal message that religion is fascism because it is the union of government and corporate power.
I don't know if I buy this. I still need to think about it.
Blackwater Lunchbreak
Verified User
that's not exactly my message.
religion has good in it. as worldly power structures they do become highly corrupted if not totally corrupted. but the pro moral pro decency gems that are in there are still valuable.
do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
the separation of church and state is not the separation of morality and humanity.
ZenMode
Well-known member
The Jews denied that Jesus was the Messiah because he didn't fit the OT description of a Messiah. The Messiah was supposed to be a great warrior/King David type. Jesus was quiet, unassuming and got his ass handed to him be the government.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
The gospels clearly set the record straight and alleviate any need for "interpretation."
Jesus, as it turns out, was one kick-ass warrior who single-handedly beat the crap out of all the scheisters who turned the temple into a den of theives. "Bring it on" was his moniker. Talk about one bad-ass mo-fo strutting his stuff. Nobody wanted to mess with him. WWE was modeled after Jesus.
By the way, the whole idea of the Messiah was that he was to die for everyone's sins ... so he had to die ... and it took all of the Saducees ganging up on him, and only after they had spies gathering sufficient intelligence. Notice that they didn't just march in with two or three guys ... nope. Only when the entire order joined in did they have the courage to pull it off. *
Additionally, the OT specifies:
Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 11:2-9 - And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
There was no promise of any warrior king, just the promise that a son, born of a virgin, would bring the spirit of wisdom and understanding. Being a whoop-ass MMA stud was just a bonus.
Blackwater Lunchbreak
Verified User
Blackwater Lunchbreak
Verified User
christianity and judaism are different religions.
and that's ok.
and that's ok.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
"The first will be last"!
Where you make your mistake is your claim Hebrews executed the Messiah!
Not true I executed the Messiah and each and ever sinner!
What sets Hebrews apart is they are YHWH's Chosen people to tell his story through.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Well, they did, but Jesus being the Messiah, came back from the dead, so that sinners could each have their turns executing Him as well, if I understand your point. Of course, I'll have to go with whatever gfm7175 says on the matter.
I do hope you apologized.
Nope. It would appear that the Israelites WERE the favorites, but then they screwed up royally, mistakenly chose Barabbas in a moment of confusion, and left Christians to slide into the pole position. The Jews never recovered, although they tried, by making a pact with devil and selling their souls to the Democrat Party. They were deceived.
Of course, I will have to go with whatever gfm7175 says on the matter.
Guno צְבִי
Am Yisrael Chai
So goyim are going to tell us what our scripture says about the messiah ??
maybe you should read the Hebrew bible in Hebrew
christian Mistranslations of Text
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/mistranslations-of-text
The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.
The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
But first, some background: What exactly is the Messiah?
The word "Messiah" is an English rendering of the Hebrew word Mashiach, which means "anointed." It usually refers to a person initiated into God's service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, 1-Kings 1:39, 2-Kings 9:3)
(1) Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)
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Specifically, the Bible says he will:
Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.
Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.
(2) Jesus Did Not Embody the Personal Qualifications of Messiah
A. Messiah as Prophet
The Messiah will become the greatest prophet in history, second only to Moses. (Targum – Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides – Teshuva 9:2)
Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry, a situation which has not existed since 300 BCE. During the time of Ezra, when the majority of Jews remained in Babylon, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets – Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended, and thus could not be a prophet.
B. Descendant of David
Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father – and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David. (1)
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (2) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
C. Torah Observance
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the Christian "New Testament," Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"
(3) Mistranslated Verses "Referring" to Jesus
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text – which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
A. Virgin Birth
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
B. Suffering Servant
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. Throughout Jewish scripture, Israel is repeatedly called, in the singular, the "Servant of God" (see Isaiah 43:8). In fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in the chapters prior to 53 that the Servant of God is Israel.
When read correctly, Isaiah 53 clearly [and ironically] refers to the Jewish people being "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter" at the hands of the nations of the world. These descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to graphically describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44).
Isaiah 53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate suffering and death of the Jews.
Specifically, the Bible says he will:
Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.
Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.
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Guno צְבִי
Am Yisrael Chai
We Jews don't care what you stupid christer goyim "think" 2000 years of trying to covert us sometimes by force, trying to tell us what our text says.
SIX REASONS WHY JEWS DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/videos/six-reasons-why-jews-don-t-believe-in-jesus
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I have to. Once the Jews made the epic fail of executing the wrong guy, they ceased to be the final arbiters on scripture, I'm sorry. That's ancient history and there's nothing we can do about it now except to watch and see if Christians pull an equally major blunder and end up falling in the rankings.
The bad news for you is that when the Jews' allowed themselves to be deceived by the Marxist Democrats, their resulting slavery pushed them down below the Muslims in the standings. Scripture interpretation authority is presently out of reach for the Jews, I'm sorry to say.
Fortunately for JPP, gfm7175 CAN authoritatively answer ALL questions pertaining to scripture, so you have that angle available to you.
Guno צְבִי
Am Yisrael Chai
Christian Proof-Texting
The claim of Paul and the New Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds, and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?
Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennia have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/christian-proof-texting/
The claim of Paul and the New Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds, and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?
Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennia have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/christian-proof-texting/
Guno צְבִי
Am Yisrael Chai
Rabbi debunks Christianity - "It's idolatry"
Guno צְבִי
Am Yisrael Chai
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Your slavery to the Democrat Party has you getting everything wrong.
There was only one prophecy, that God would send a sign, who was born of a virgin, he would be the Immanuel ... and I'll have to ask gfm7175 about the rest.
All of the gospels align with this. Perhaps you never had the good fortune of becoming an expert in the Scripture as gfm7175 has done, but fortunately for you, he is available to answer questions here on JPP.
So you're a conspiracy theorist? I have scrutinized the Scripture and there is no evidence tampering therein. Every verse of the gospels confirms the fulfillment of the Hebrew prophecy through Jesus. It's a shame the Jews killed Jesus just for fulfilling prophecy ... and they got themselves booted out of God's top spot in the process. You know that stung like a bitch.
Yes, Jewish spin doctors have had two millennia to develop excuses for having executed their Messiah. They're never going to live it down, though, and they're never going to hear the end of it.
All the Jews can say is "Look at the מִקְרָא, don't look at the New Testament because, if you do, we come off looking pretty dumb."