Why do people often vote against their own interests?

Taichiliberal said:
You have been mis-informed......
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neither you or I know what the "recent proposals" are since it's still in the "reconciliation committee", but if what comes out retains the provisions of the HR bill then I am not mis-informed.....

Then please explain why FEDEX and UPS (with their Mailbox Rental subsidiary) have been thriving for years DESPITE the USPS?
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irrelevant.....FEDEX and UPS are not required by law to provide exactly the same services as the USPS and are not prohibited from offering their current services to people not already under contract with them or changing their prices to their current customers......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no, I'm not joking.....if BC/BS gets dismantled who do expect could ever afford to recreate it from scratch.....
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BC/BS can still operate. It operates in Canada along with the universal plan. For example, in Quebec one has a choice when it comes to prescription meds. Either have your own plan such as Blue Cross or join the government plan. It's compulsory to join a plan. That way everyone can afford medication.

A government option. Sound familiar?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
neither you or I know what the "recent proposals" are since it's still in the "reconciliation committee", but if what comes out retains the provisions of the HR bill then I am not mis-informed.....



irrelevant.....FEDEX and UPS are not required by law to provide exactly the same services as the USPS and are not prohibited from offering their current services to people not already under contract with them or changing their prices to their current customers......
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Another argument from ignorance. The current legislation is not mandating that insurance companies have to offer the exact same services as the public option. They set a minimum standard. Just as Fedex and USPS provide services above and beyond what the USPS has been willing to provide.
 
bravo said:
http://www.healthpaconline.net/universal-health-care.htm

Generally speaking, in this country, we tend to call anything funded by the government, socialized....though technically, that may be incorrect.....

Universal Health Care vs Socialized Medicine

For all practical purposes, a distinction with little or minor difference
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Particularly if your a braind dead wing nut who allows politicians to manipulate you through fear with bogey man phrases like "Socialism". I mean that shit is lifted right out of "The Prince".

Well if that's the way it is then you'll have to pardon me Bravo. I don't have time to debate. I need to look under my bed and make sure there's not a socialist underneath it.

Don't worry if there is. I have Rush Limbaughs phone #.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Particularly if your a braind dead wing nut who allows politicians to manipulate you through fear with bogey man phrases like "Socialism". I mean that shit is lifted right out of "The Prince".

Well if that's the way it is then you'll have to pardon me Bravo. I don't have time to debate. I need to look under my bed and make sure there's not a socialist underneath it.

Don't worry if there is. I have Rush Limbaughs phone #.
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nice Navy GED burn!!!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Another argument from ignorance. The current legislation is not mandating that insurance companies have to offer the exact same services as the public option. They set a minimum standard. Just as Fedex and USPS provide services above and beyond what the USPS has been willing to provide.
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and what of those of us who choose to go with a plan that offers something different than the "minimum standard"?.....how would Fedex and UPS do if for example the "minimum standard" required them to stop at every house in the country five days a week?......
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I certainly have and if your saying the proposed new legislation would eliminate private insurance then your a fool who can't read.
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we've been over this before....it is YOU who can't read....how else do you explain the provisions that prohibit companies from marketing their current plans to new customers.....that prohibit them from every changing the premium rate, regardless of changes in costs.....how long would it be before there weren't sufficient policyholders to sustain the plan?........
 
apple0154 said:
BC/BS can still operate. It operates in Canada along with the universal plan. For example, in Quebec one has a choice when it comes to prescription meds. Either have your own plan such as Blue Cross or join the government plan. It's compulsory to join a plan. That way everyone can afford medication.

A government option. Sound familiar?
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does Canada prohibit BC/BS from marketing a plan which is different from the government option?.....
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Particularly if your a braind dead wing nut who allows politicians to manipulate you through fear with bogey man phrases like "Socialism". I mean that shit is lifted right out of "The Prince".

Well if that's the way it is then you'll have to pardon me Bravo. I don't have time to debate. I need to look under my bed and make sure there's not a socialist underneath it.

Don't worry if there is. I have Rush Limbaughs phone #.
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More likely 'in it' rather then under it....
 
Threedee said:
They're not exactly thriving, but yes, FEDEX and UPS do exist...
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Beyond Wall St., certain banks and the various financial firms that are associated with them, not many people or businesses are exactly "thriving now". But I trust you concede my point regarding the neocon boogeyman of private business not successfully competing with a gov't agency.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
neither you or I know what the "recent proposals" are since it's still in the "reconciliation committee", but if what comes out retains the provisions of the HR bill then I am not mis-informed.....


irrelevant.....FEDEX and UPS are not required by law to provide exactly the same services as the USPS and are not prohibited from offering their current services to people not already under contract with them or changing their prices to their current customers......
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Depends on what HR bill you are referring to? Bottom line: your declaration was wrong unless you can provide proof to the contrary. Until you do, I can respond to you in kind with the same assuredness as you display.


You're not making sense......they compete DIRECTLY with the USPS on delivery of mail and packages. They are NOT required to duplicate ALL the functions of the USPS. The whole point of their existence is to do BETTER than USPS. And the bulk of their business is NOT contractual...anyone at anytime can walk into a FEDEX or UPS office and purchase their services.....just like you do at the USPS. And their prices always differed, as they were NOT subject to gov't subsidy as the USPS was directly for a LONG time. Bottom line: a private service can and does adequately compete with a gov't offered alternative.
 
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Taichiliberal said:
Depends on what HR bill you are referring to?
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the one they passed, obviously....are you denying it's been proven on this very board?....if so, you are the only one doing so...

You're not making sense......they compete DIRECTLY with the USPS on delivery of mail and packages. They are NOT required to duplicate ALL the functions of the USPS. The whole point of their existence is to do BETTER than USPS. And the bulk of their business is NOT contractual...anyone at anytime can walk into a FEDEX or UPS office and purchase their services.....just like you do at the USPS. And their prices always differed, as they were NOT subject to gov't subsidy as the USPS was directly for a LONG time. Bottom line: a private service can and does adequately compete with a gov't offered alternative.
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why is it difficult for you to understand....the USPS does things that UPS does not do.....the USPS delivers mail to every single house in the country every weekday.....the UPS only delivers to those places they are contracted to deliver to....could FedEx compete if the law required them to have a driver stop at every house in the country five days a week....

likewise, can BC/BS offer me the same premiums they currently charge me if they are required to lower my deductible to match that of the government plan, and include dental coverage and prescription eyewear for the children under 21 that I do not have?.......
 
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Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Depends on what HR bill you are referring
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to?

PostmodernProphet said:
the one they passed, obviously....are you denying it's been proven on this very board?....if so, you are the only one doing so...

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You're not making sense......they compete DIRECTLY with the USPS on delivery of mail and packages. They are NOT required to duplicate ALL the functions of the USPS. The whole point of their existence is to do BETTER than USPS. And the bulk of their business is NOT contractual...anyone at anytime can walk into a FEDEX or UPS office and purchase their services.....just like you do at the USPS. And their prices always differed, as they were NOT subject to gov't subsidy as the USPS was directly for a LONG time. Bottom line: a private service can and does adequately compete with a gov't offered alternative.
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why is it difficult for you to understand....the USPS does things that UPS does not do.....the USPS delivers mail to every single house in the country every weekday.....the UPS only delivers to those places they are contracted to deliver to....
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Another lame dodge from you....if you don't know WTF you're talking about and you can't produce the PROOF of what you say, then spare yourself the embarassment and spare me reading your excuses. So, what HR are you specifically referring to?


You keep repeating yourself as it that's an automatic validation....it's not. UPS and FEDEX DON'T HAVE TO DUPLICATE EXACTLY WHAT THE USPS DOES. They just have to target specific aspects and DO BETTER. And they do that. They charge more...and they deliver on their promised services. They compete with the USPS which has a HELL of a lot more resources.
A matter of fact, a matter of history. Whether you accept that or not is irrelevent. So the neocon smokescreen of private enterprise NOT being able to compete with a gov't agency is just that...smoke.
 
bravo said:
More likely 'in it' rather then under it....
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Ha! I bet I'm more of a capitalist then you are. How much money do you have invested in Stocks?

I may not be in the capitalist class yet but I bet I'm a hell of a lot closer then you are.

Not only that, I'm not fooled by some damned politician into buying a line of total bull shit just cause that politician hollered "SOCIALISM!".

In the mean time why you're looking under your bed for socialist bogeymen I'm going to be investing some hard earned capital in Environmental Service and Technology companies cause the future there is looking real green! :pke:
 
Taichiliberal said:
Another lame dodge from you....if you don't know WTF you're talking about and you can't produce the PROOF of what you say, then spare yourself the embarassment and spare me reading your excuses. So, what HR are you specifically referring to?
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your confusion is puzzling....there is currently one HR bill, one Senate bill.....they are in reconcilliation...

this is the HR bill...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:3:./temp/~c111Bsyw6a::

UPS and FEDEX DON'T HAVE TO DUPLICATE EXACTLY WHAT THE USPS DOES.
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that is, of course, the point I am making.....why is that difficult for you to understand.....now, private insurance companies, on the other hand are required to provide, as a minimum, everything the public option provided.....the only things they could differently was to add more benefits, which obviously would make it more expensive......where is the room for competition?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
your confusion is puzzling....there is currently one HR bill, one Senate bill.....they are in reconcilliation...

this is the HR bill...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:3:./temp/~c111Bsyw6a::


that is, of course, the point I am making.....why is that difficult for you to understand.....now, private insurance companies, on the other hand are required to provide, as a minimum, everything the public option provided.....the only things they could differently was to add more benefits, which obviously would make it more expensive......where is the room for competition?......
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Your link doesn't work.

And once again you repeat the lies of the neocon driven GOP that has NOTHING to do with the public option. You cannot provide any quotation or transcript of a proposal that provides a public option or single payer option that makes a private insurance company match all gov't resources. What the gov't IS offering is the promise that their customers will NOT be dumped or denied because the accountants figure they actually have to pay up on all those years of paying into their system.

You keep avoiding the obvious and repeating supposition and conjecture. The example I gave regarding Fedex and UPS competing with USPS is valid. By your "logic", the competition does not exist because there is not a duplication of every service available. That's just plain dumb on your part, because if what you assert was true, then the USPS would not have to raise it's rates...but it did so because FAX machines and E-Mails were a direct competition to their services. They did so because UPS and FEDEX were a direct competition to their services. A matter of fact, a matter of history......whether you acknowledge it or not is irrelevent.
 
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