Why Libertarians are Pinheads

They are pinheads for believing in liberty?

Not at all, I believe in Liberty! In fact, as I stated in the opening thread (which you obviously skimmed over) I hold very many Libertarian viewpoints! I just wish the reality of the world we lived in were different. If everyone shared a Libertarian mindset, the ideology would work and function in society, but that is not reality. It is Utopian! It's never going to be that way, so we can't have a "half-assed" Libertarian society, it just won't work! It's nice to dream, it's fun to play "what if..." but it's not practical in reality. Pinheads don't believe in practical reality, they believe in ideologies and concepts they read about in a book or heard some other pinhead espouse.
 
Dixie, as per usual this is a gargantuan blathering consisting merely of hyperbolic stereotypes and reflecting your own predisposed prejudice against libertarians.

I could write a long winded diatribe using outdated references and dishonest analogies to paint "Conservatives" as bigoted hate mongers, as simply as I could paint them out dated relics of a time long past whose relevance is no longer necessary, or even a matter of opinion.

I could stereotype Southern Republicans (and don't even pretend you're not one of them) as racist throwbacks who would wish to reimplement the Jim Crowe Laws or who would stand united to back George Wallace or more recently David Duke.

And guess what? If I did, I would be showing the moral cowardice your are showing right here, right now.

So tuck your fucking mullet under that baseball cap and man the fuck up. Argue issues, not straw men.
 
I don't see it that way, and you haven't given any examples of it, so I will presume it just struck a nerve with you, and that is the cause for your lackluster review. That often happens with what I say, and I am very accustomed to it, so it doesn't bother me in the least. I think I will decline on saving my condescension, but thanks for the suggestion.
 
I already know this thread will garner much criticism from the lefties as well as the libbies, but I never was much for being non-controversial, so here goes...

First, let me say, my personal views are very much in line with Libertarianism. On almost every issue, I personally share their viewpoint, and can see where they are coming from. This alone, distinguishes them from the left, whom I often can't even rationalize. With Libertarians, I can see a strong and principled conviction of belief, and I can understand and even relate to that belief on a personal level. If the entire country were comprised of people who thought like myself and behaved as I do, I would be a staunch Libertarian, because I believe Libertarianism would work in that environment.

This brings me to why I think Libertarians are Pinheads. We live in a diverse and complicated society, full of people who certainly don't think or behave like Libertarians. They lack the same conviction of principle, they can't behave in a responsible manner. The 'personal freedoms' aspect of Libertarianism, depends on individuals behaving responsibly, without the need of government intervention. For instance, we could legalize dope, and most Libertarian types would act responsibly and not abuse it, but many people simply wouldn't. We would be inundated with those who made the 'personal choice' to fuck up their lives, and like it or not, we would be left holding the bag for their care and treatment. Now, a Libertarian would say, we wouldn't be left holding the bag, we'd just let these people deal with the consequences, but unless there is a way to eradicate Liberalism, that is not going to happen in the real world. There will always be some bleeding heart Liberal out there, pulling at our heart strings and collective social conscience, to provide care for these poor unfortunate souls. The same is true with a host of Libertarian issues.

Libertarians are pinheads for much the same reason as many Liberals are pinheads, they believe in a Utopian ideology of how life should be. Reality is, life is nowhere near what they would hope, and it won't ever be. Granted, if we could magically make people behave responsibly, Libertarianism would be an acceptable ideology across the board. Indeed, we could live without government restrictions on personal freedoms, we could enact a smaller more efficient government infrastructure, because the people would take care of their own needs, deal with their own consequences, and not need or require the government as much.

I believe many Libertarians fail to have the perspective of reality in society, and tend to look at Libertarianism in strictly a personal light. I say this because, I find Libertarianism appealing from a personal perspective. However, I understand we live in a diverse society, and not everyone is ethical or sane, and not everyone would be able to function in a Libertarian society. My personal preference for government has to give way to my sense of practicality and pragmatism, and what I believe will work to provide a functional society for the majority. So I must abandon Libertarian ideals of personal freedoms, and accept some level of governmental control, so that the people in society who are not responsible and need rules, boundaries and limitations, will have them.

There are certain things I believe our government should have control over, even though I may personal wish they didn't. Even though I may believe I am a better steward of my own choices than government, I can understand that not everyone is like me, and some people require this limitation to some degree, without it, they simply go out of control and I am left with the aftermath. To me, it's the difference between dreaming a Utopian dream, and accepting reality of the world we live in. Pinheads are people who have read a book or studied the pontifications of others, and have developed a viewpoint based on an idealistic concept, without factoring in reality. I have my own views and beliefs on a personal level, but I am also a big believer in reality, and I don't put much stock in ideological concepts. What works on paper, often doesn't work in practicality, that's just the way life is in the real world.

This idea that Libertarians believe in some sort utopian society based on the expectation that everyone would act responsibly is utter nonsense.

Please take the time to research the Libertarian Party BEFORE you make a fool of yourself even more.

The Libertarians (most of them anyway) believe that responsible people should not be inundadted with regulations and laws that limits their freedoms without cause. There are plenty of people who would act in an irresponsible manner. And they would suffer the consequences of their actions. No where does the Libertarian Party say it wants to remove all laws. But the drug laws are archaic and ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people who smoke pot do not commit other crimes. That is the personal liberty that the Libertarians want to protect. But if some dopehead robs someone to support their habit, they should be prosecuted for the ROBBERY.

Dixie, you have been slammed and beaten so many times on the pot issue, I am amazed you keep bringing it up. You must be a glutton for punishment.
 
This idea that Libertarians believe in some sort utopian society based on the expectation that everyone would act responsibly is utter nonsense.

Please take the time to research the Libertarian Party BEFORE you make a fool of yourself even more.

The Libertarians (most of them anyway) believe that responsible people should not be inundadted with regulations and laws that limits their freedoms without cause. There are plenty of people who would act in an irresponsible manner. And they would suffer the consequences of their actions. No where does the Libertarian Party say it wants to remove all laws. But the drug laws are archaic and ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people who smoke pot do not commit other crimes. That is the personal liberty that the Libertarians want to protect. But if some dopehead robs someone to support their habit, they should be prosecuted for the ROBBERY.

Dixie, you have been slammed and beaten so many times on the pot issue, I am amazed you keep bringing it up. You must be a glutton for punishment.

I never said that Libertarians believe in anything, that would be a generalization. Libertarians tend to assume that people will behave responsibly, and the few who don't will be irrelevant. This is the case with regard to every single Libertarian issue I know of across the board. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, or Libertarians are bad people, just that they tend to assume people will behave responsibly, and those who don't, will be insignificant. That's all. I am pretty much Libertarian in my thinking, I believe people should have the right to do as they please as long as it doesn't harm others, that's a Libertarian concept, correct? The thing is, and the point I have tried to make here, that is not reality of the world we live in. People will not behave responsibly, and with Liberalism abounding, we Libertarian types and Conservatives, will be stuck with the bill for the consequences, because Liberals damn sure won't accept the responsibility alone, if they accept any at all.

Now, from my perspective, I have made a valid point that you will have difficulty refuting, but you will continue (I predict) to pretend you have "slammed" me on the issue, and that I am a glutton for punishment. The point is, Libertarians are pinheads because they believe in something that is not conducive with reality. Something "Utopian" as it were. Please try to read that without taking personal offense, and tell me how I am wrong, if you think I am wrong. I happen to think I have nailed it on the head, and you can't form a coherent argument against me... at least, that is what the personal attacks and warping of my statements leads me to think.
 
Dixie, regarding the 'pot' issue. Are you of the political mindset that it's ok for congress to criminalize possession under the current CSA?

The Congress is an elected body of government who represent the people. It is Congress' job to pass whatever Constitutional laws we demand they pass. That IS what makes us a democratic society. Now, interestingly enough, your question goes to the root of what I have defined as the difference between typical Libertarians, and myself, who holds many Libertarian views....I'll explain...

Libertarians advocate legalizing pot. Period! I advocate decriminalization, not legalizing it. The basis is not because I personally don't feel pot should be legal, I would love for it to be legal and anyone who wants it could get it and use it whenever they wish... absolutely LOVE it... got that? But the thing is, I understand the society we live in is made up of all kinds of people, most of whom would not behave responsibly with regard to legalized marijuana, and would act in an irresponsible manner due to the free and open access to it. Ultimately, I would have to foot the bill for their fuck ups, and I don't want to have to deal with that. Also, there are a large number of people who (for various reasons) do not want pot legalized, and I can respect their opinions enough to understand why we can't do it, even though I would love to be able to. In short, if everyone had my own personal mindset, and could behave responsibly, there would be no reason not to legalize pot! Fact of reality is, that is not the case and never will be the case. The difference between me and a typical libertarian, is not personal viewpoint, it is understanding of reality and acceptance of societal "norms" which are established collectively by all, not determined by my own personal philosophy... which is Libertarian! Does that make sense?
 
The Congress is an elected body of government who represent the people. It is Congress' job to pass whatever Constitutional laws we demand they pass. That IS what makes us a democratic society. Now, interestingly enough, your question goes to the root of what I have defined as the difference between typical Libertarians, and myself, who holds many Libertarian views....I'll explain...

Libertarians advocate legalizing pot. Period! I advocate decriminalization, not legalizing it. The basis is not because I personally don't feel pot should be legal, I would love for it to be legal and anyone who wants it could get it and use it whenever they wish... absolutely LOVE it... got that? But the thing is, I understand the society we live in is made up of all kinds of people, most of whom would not behave responsibly with regard to legalized marijuana, and would act in an irresponsible manner due to the free and open access to it. Ultimately, I would have to foot the bill for their fuck ups, and I don't want to have to deal with that. Also, there are a large number of people who (for various reasons) do not want pot legalized, and I can respect their opinions enough to understand why we can't do it, even though I would love to be able to. In short, if everyone had my own personal mindset, and could behave responsibly, there would be no reason not to legalize pot! Fact of reality is, that is not the case and never will be the case. The difference between me and a typical libertarian, is not personal viewpoint, it is understanding of reality and acceptance of societal "norms" which are established collectively by all, not determined by my own personal philosophy... which is Libertarian! Does that make sense?

Libertarian.....I don't think it means what you think it means. Let me explain.

As a libertarian, I don't advocate 'legalizing' pot either. In fact, decriminalization HAS to be the ONLY way to go. As libertarians, we want and demand smaller and less powerful central governments. This means paring off the penultimate layers of power that the liberal dominated courts handed over to the democrats over the decades via the commerce clause. As a conservative, I would expect that you ALSO would expect and demand less powerful central governments and going back to the original design of what the commerce clause was written for.

Do you realize that the rehnquist court basically gave congress the power to tell you what you can and cannot grow on your own property, for your own use?
 
Libertarianism isn't about drugs and the crusade to make it so is bogus.
Alcohol takes more lives than all illegal and legal drugs combined.
Do you support legal alcohol?
If you do...does that not make you a libertarian?
Why do you call yourself a pinhead?
 
Libertarianism is about minimizing government interference in individual rights.

Decriminalization of drugs like marijuana is one part of it, but the ideology is much more comprehensive than that.
 
yeah private police forces according to some Libertarians.

All libertarians have different personal beliefs that vary greatly. It's a much less rigid and dogmatic ideology than liberalism or conservatism.

You get everyone from people that would like to see their taxes a percent or two lower to anarchists. Generalizing about libertarians is even more useless than generalizing about liberals and conservatives.
 
Right, Libertarians are mostly idealistic nuts in my opinion.

They are even more varied than democrats.

Republicans are the closest to lockstep of any parties.
 
Back
Top