Why the DOW keeps falling...

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
Even after an unprecedented $700 billion bailout package, and supplementary mini-bailout packages, the free-fall in the markets continue. Nothing is working, and nothing is going to work. The reason is fairly simple, REALITY!

People who have millions of dollars invested in the markets, are by-and-large, 'wealthy' people. The same 'wealthy' who know and understand a President Obama thoroughly plans to rape them in the ass with new taxation, come 2009. The same 'wealthy' people who are starting to see the writing on the wall, and understand we are heading for an anti-capitalist administration in January.

It's time to cut and run. They would be fools to hold firm in their current investments, to try and 'ride it out' now, because it is only going to get worse under an Obama administration, and they know it. As the polls have shifted more and more into Obama's favor, and it becomes more clear that, barring some unforeseen event, Obama will win in November, the 'wealthy' investors are cashing it in, moving assets to somewhere safe. No amount of government socialist takeover of capitalism, is going to shore up this situation. It simply is what it is.

What can change this? I am afraid, nothing can change it at this point. Even a McCain miracle win, would not restore the confidence needed to return the markets to pre-panic levels. This is mainly due to another contributing factor, confidence. The 'wealthy' investors have no confidence in McCain or any of our current leadership, to solve the problems facing our financial situation. If anything, the giant pork-filled bailout, proved just that. We are seeing the death of capitalism in America, the free market capitalism which brought us prosperity the past 30 years, is on its way out, and socialist reforms are on the way in. The 'wealthy' investors know this and understand it, better than you and I, better than liberal mush-brain Obamamaniacs, and even better than John McCain and Sarah Palin.
 
LOL.
so it is all Obama's fault ? I wondered when you would get around to this.
Which rightwingnut pundit did you get this from ?
 
uscitizen said:
LOL.
so it is all Obama's fault ? I wondered when you would get around to this.
Which rightwingnut pundit did you get this from ?
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Not Obama's fault really, he is just a populist politician, telling 'the people' what they want to hear. It is Liberal Socialism, and this mentality that we have to stick it to 'the rich' in America. What you mush-brains have failed to realize is, it's not that easy to do. Rich people have no intentions of just sitting around on their piles of money, waiting for you to come take it from them. They didn't get to be rich, being stupid. There are any number of 'offshore' options available to them, and they are taking advantage of that now, while they still can. It's really as simple as that.

No right-wing pundit gave me this, I came up with it on my own. I am one of those kind of people who has to find an explanation for the unexplained. When the $700B Bailout plan didn't work to save the markets, I started rationalizing, why would this be? What would keep this from 'saving the day?' On paper, it seems like this would have at least slowed the hemorrhaging, but it didn't. The markets continue to plunge daily, and there is no end in sight. Must be a 'reason' for it, there has to be an 'explanation' for why.

I think it is REALITY. I think the 'wealthy' who own most all the stock in America, are starting to see the writing on the wall, and realize they can't 'ride this out' anymore. We are about to have at least 4 years of anti-capitalist policy coming out of the White House, and things are not going to get better for them. It's not partisan, really, I don't think they had much confidence in McCain's policies helping them out much either. They may have been more inclined to 'wait and see' with a McCain presidency, but that is looking more and more like a long-shot at this point, so it's time to bail.

Congrats Liberals! Looks like you've destroyed American Capitalism! I just hope your Socialism plans have taken this into consideration, and you have some way to pay for all the shit you've promised us. The 'wealthy' people you planned to bilk, have checked out. Now what?
 
Dixie,

You act as though McCain isn't also proposing more socialism. The only decent, non-socialist idea McCain has had is his health care proposal, which goes about things completely wrong.

Why not simply enforce fraud laws already on the books instead of all these bailouts? Why? Because McCain's a happy socialist, too.
 
ironhead said:
Dixie,

You act as though McCain isn't also proposing more socialism. The only decent, non-socialist idea McCain has had is his health care proposal, which goes about things completely wrong.

Why not simply enforce fraud laws already on the books instead of all these bailouts? Why? Because McCain's a happy socialist, too.
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How am I acting that way? I clearly said (twice) that I didn't think McCain policy was much better. I clearly stated that another contributing factor was lack of confidence in McCain, or any of our leadership, to solve the problems of our financial crisis. How have I acted as you indicate, exactly?

"Going after fraud" is all good and well, but it's a platitude. It assumes we have just been letting fraud happen, and haven't been going after it! Of course we should "go after fraud", that's a given! Saying you are going to 'go after fraud' is not going to turn things around in the market, I'm sorry, it's not the problem. It's like saying, with regard to deficit spending, you are going to 'target earmarks' ...it sounds good... it plays well.... but the problem with government spending is not 'earmarks', they represent a proverbial 'drop in the bucket' to the overall problem.
 
Re: fraud

I'm not sure I was clear, but I was referring to the bailout. I'm sure there have been many loans out there which occurred as the result of lenders either racing through or skipping over disclosure. That said, I'm also quite sure there were a lot of loans given to people who couldn't afford them as well as irresponsible investment going on between holding companies and other banks. I was simply trying to say that if fraud laws were vigorously enforced, future bailouts might be avoided (maybe). At least that wouldn't be adding injustice to stupidity, like the bailout has done.

But your point about Obama having an anti-capitalist administration is a bit moot, considering that McCain's would be as well, perhaps slightly less. He's just as fond of the Federal Reserve as Obama, just as committed to the $700 billion corporate welfare bailout as Obama, just as committed to the Federal Leviathan in general.

Like I said, McCain's idea about health care reform is at least headed in the right direction (as opposed to Obama's socialist mess), but his method of taxing payroll to lure people away from their employer is wrong-headed and would never get through Congress. McCain should have started with allowing employees to take the money their employer already pays and shop elsewhere for insurance. This would have been a better transition before going after the real culprit, the HMO act of 1973.
 
Sorry, Dixie -

I sort of skimmed through your last paragraph too quickly. I see your point there about McCain.

That said, who knows what will happen to the markets with an Obama administration. My guess is all the retarded "regulation" and "oversight" Obama wants will result in the largest, most powerful interests killing off smaller competition via influence in writing the actual regulations, which has happened many times before.

IMO, we're looking at a Bear Market as long as the value of the dollar isn't completely destroyed by all of the bailouts (more to come?) and continued over-printing by the federal reserve and manic credit practices associated with fractional reserve banking. If left to its own devices, the market would liquidate all this bad debt and the ensuing contraction might last a year or more - look at Wells-Fargo, they already saw an opportunity with Wachovia, even with all of their non-producing loans. The way we're headed, it could be a decade-long depression if Obama continues these muddle-headed interventions.
 
I'm not sure I was clear, but I was referring to the bailout. I'm sure there have been many loans out there which occurred as the result of lenders either racing through or skipping over disclosure. That said, I'm also quite sure there were a lot of loans given to people who couldn't afford them as well as irresponsible investment going on between holding companies and other banks. I was simply trying to say that if fraud laws were vigorously enforced, future bailouts might be avoided (maybe). At least that wouldn't be adding injustice to stupidity, like the bailout has done.
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Here's the thing, we ARE vigorously enforcing laws against fraud! Whenever fraudulent practices have been exposed, people have been put in prison for it... (See; Enron, etc.) The "problem" is NOT fraud being left unchecked or going unpunished, the "problem" isn't government oversight or lack of regulation. These things are all good and well, and we should be doing certain things to insure fraud and corruption is kept to a minimum. Even a brain-dead moron will agree with that argument, which is why it continues to be trotted out there, as if it is a solution.

The way Freddie and Fannie got into this mess, was because Congress mandated these institutions make a certain percentage of their loans available to 'low-income' and 'minority' households. They did what the government told them to do, and then the people defaulted on the loans. The collapse of these institutions was what started the ball rolling, actually, it had already started rolling, this just kicked it into high gear. The real problem is much more diverse and complex, and NONE of our political leadership has a clue how to fix it. MORE government intervention, certainly doesn't seem to be the answer, and is certainly not making the market investors feel more confident.

That said, who knows what will happen to the markets with an Obama administration.
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Well, see.... the thing is, thinking people with money, DO KNOW! Half-witted supporters of Obama, can claim that no one really knows. It's really easy to figure out, an anti-capitalist administration who favors higher taxes on "the wealthy" is not going to be good for people with huge stock portfolios and invested in big business. It really doesn't take a genius to figure that out. That being the case, those who have huge financial investments in this country, in the markets, in business enterprise, are jumping ship now, while they still have a ship to jump. They know full well what is in store, under an Obama administration, and it is ignorant beyond belief to think it's anything "good" for them! McCain might not be any better, but at least they could rationalize taking a 'wait and see' approach, maybe stick it out a bit longer and see what he will do... with Obama, they already KNOW what he will do, and they are taking precautions now, to insure their wealth for the future.
 
uscitizen said:
LOL.
so it is all Obama's fault ? I wondered when you would get around to this.
Which rightwingnut pundit did you get this from ?
Click to expand...

ROTFLMAO. Dixie's the perfect partisan. He can rationalize anything. Maybe he's forgetting the 8 fantastic years of record economic growth under Clinton that W and his wingnut buddies pissed away.

3 more months to go. We only have to wait 3 more months, then oh what fun we'll have laughing at Dixie and saying "Told you so!" LOL
 
Mottley,
dix is so pathetically partisan it si not even funny.
he has been a good indicator for me though. whichever direction he points I go the other way. It has worked wonderfully for years now.
 
Mottleydude said:
ROTFLMAO. Dixie's the perfect partisan. He can rationalize anything. Maybe he's forgetting the 8 fantastic years of record economic growth under Clinton that W and his wingnut buddies pissed away.

3 more months to go. We only have to wait 3 more months, then oh what fun we'll have laughing at Dixie and saying "Told you so!" LOL
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LOL... I kinda doubt it. Most everyone will be busy standing in line at the soup kitchen for food, or fending off looters by then. I doubt you'll have a computer to post on, or electricity to run it, for that matter. It's about to get REALLY bad in America, and I honestly don't think some of you spoiled brats who've had it made your whole life, even have a clue. You are seeing the start of it now, the American capitalist economic system is starting to crumble, and Socialism will fill the void. Congratulations! It's what you wanted, and it's exactly what you deserve!
 
uscitizen said:
Mottley,
dix is so pathetically partisan it si not even funny.
he has been a good indicator for me though. whichever direction he points I go the other way. It has worked wonderfully for years now.
Click to expand...


Nothing partisan about this... again, read my post. I am not blaming Obama and claiming McCain is the answer! That seems to be what you think I said, and it's just not... sorry! As for indicators... you follow the markets, that is the only indicator that matters now. I can't tell you where to go, but America is going to be a dismal place to live in another year or two, mark my words. That said, maybe you will run out and invest every penny you have in the markets! LOL!
 
Dixie said:
Nothing partisan about this... again, read my post. I am not blaming Obama and claiming McCain is the answer! That seems to be what you think I said, and it's just not... sorry! As for indicators... you follow the markets, that is the only indicator that matters now. I can't tell you where to go, but America is going to be a dismal place to live in another year or two, mark my words. That said, maybe you will run out and invest every penny you have in the markets! LOL!
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I am set for the rest of my life I do not need to invest anything else.
I took care of this during last years insane market highs.

I do however have concerns for suffering of others.
 
uscitizen said:
I am set for the rest of my life I do not need to invest anything else.
I took care of this during last years insane market highs.

I do however have concerns for suffering of others.
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I hope you cashed it all in and invested in a Swiss bank account or something, because, if you have assets and holdings in the US, you are fucked come January.
 
Dixie said:
I hope you cashed it all in and invested in a Swiss bank account or something, because, if you have assets and holdings in the US, you are fucked come January.
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FDIC insured funds and mostly gold eagles which I posess. A farm all paid for and ZERO debt.
 
Dixie said:
:lmao: @ "FDIC insured funds!"
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They are safer than most. I only have about 400k in those, the rest is in gold in hand. And the ability to be largely self sufficient on my farm. And ZERO debts.
The govt will be gone if my FDIC deposits are not made good.
 
uscitizen said:
They are safer than most. I only have about 400k in those, the rest is in gold in hand. And the ability to be largely self sufficient on my farm. And ZERO debts.
The govt will be gone if my FDIC deposits are not made good.
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The Feds can't guarantee something they don't have the funds to guarantee. If the economic system completely collapses, your FDIC insurance is worthless. Being able to be self-sufficient on your farm is a good thing... until they seize your farm or force you to pay ridiculous property taxes you can't afford. Zero debt doesn't matter, as debt will be absorbed in the collapse. Gold in hand is good, providing you also have weapons, and know how to use them.

My investments are all in foreign countries. I don't even have a 401k here in the US. I do have a small amount in money market CD's, but I will be liquidating this soon, and moving it out of the country. I own no property or stocks in the market. If it's here---they can take it---and they will take it. Maybe you don't believe this... maybe you don't think it's going to get that bad... but maybe you are wrong. It indeed can get that bad, and if the market continues to nosedive, it may be sooner than anyone imagined.
 
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