Yes HE can!!!
- Thread starter Robdawg
- Start date
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
ZOMG FOREIGNERS?!!~
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Yes, yes .. the excitement, the waving of American flags, the applause .. then Obama sends more troops to Afghanistan and is punked/bullied into attacking Iran .. then comes the screaming, the dying, and the reality that he isn't any different, there'll be no change, he's just another ambitious American politician with no spine or principles.
Diuretic
New member
But what if he isn't?
Seems to me you don't have much of a choice. McCain is old school, he'll perpetuate the Bush foreign policy agenda (forgive me, I'm not American, I tend to focus on US foreign policy) which as we know is a complete and utter failure. So Obama is good with soaring rhetoric. But maybe the world needs it. We're sick and frigging tired of BushCheney and the swaggering threats, the lunatic stares, the fuck it here we go again the Cold War is back routine.
It's a bit like us here in Australia. Our federal government is trying to do something about our contribution (per capita it's bloody massive) to global climate change. And you reckon there's a huge debate here? The bloody sky is apparently going to fall in if we go to an Emissions Trading Scheme. Well, guess what.....perhaps we have no choice. Maybe if we take baby steps the rest of the world will think it's okay to join in. Mutual self-interest.
And so for Obama. What if he is able to extend just a tiny piece of an olive branch to the would-be belligerents (not all the way of course, the old saying about the mailed fist in the velvet glove is valid) around the world and get them to understand that there are other ways of dealing with the problems we see.
Okay I know, heads in clouds. I'm not given to gushing about someone's effective rhetoric and I admit I've been somewhat cynical about Obama (privately) and adopted the attitude that no way would McCain be elected (you wouldn't, would you?) so he will get the job. But maybe, just maybe, he isn't infected with the cynicism that politics injects into even its neophytes. Maybe he's above and beyond that. Maybe he is the inspirational leader America needs and the rest of the world wants?
Seems to me you don't have much of a choice. McCain is old school, he'll perpetuate the Bush foreign policy agenda (forgive me, I'm not American, I tend to focus on US foreign policy) which as we know is a complete and utter failure. So Obama is good with soaring rhetoric. But maybe the world needs it. We're sick and frigging tired of BushCheney and the swaggering threats, the lunatic stares, the fuck it here we go again the Cold War is back routine.
It's a bit like us here in Australia. Our federal government is trying to do something about our contribution (per capita it's bloody massive) to global climate change. And you reckon there's a huge debate here? The bloody sky is apparently going to fall in if we go to an Emissions Trading Scheme. Well, guess what.....perhaps we have no choice. Maybe if we take baby steps the rest of the world will think it's okay to join in. Mutual self-interest.
And so for Obama. What if he is able to extend just a tiny piece of an olive branch to the would-be belligerents (not all the way of course, the old saying about the mailed fist in the velvet glove is valid) around the world and get them to understand that there are other ways of dealing with the problems we see.
Okay I know, heads in clouds. I'm not given to gushing about someone's effective rhetoric and I admit I've been somewhat cynical about Obama (privately) and adopted the attitude that no way would McCain be elected (you wouldn't, would you?) so he will get the job. But maybe, just maybe, he isn't infected with the cynicism that politics injects into even its neophytes. Maybe he's above and beyond that. Maybe he is the inspirational leader America needs and the rest of the world wants?
Topspin
Verified User
that's my opinion, he's selling out big time on Afghanistan.
I'll vote for him, but the difference between him and the Ghestapo republicans is shrinking.
I think it is hilarious that people claim Obama is selling out by wanting to send more troops to Afghanistan when he's been proposing that same plan since 2006. It's the same plan.
Where's the sell out?
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I've heard this song before.
My comments were not intended to disuade you from any excitement you may have about Obama. Just a short while ago, I shared your optimiism about his rise to the presidency and better global alliances .. but that was before he revealed himself.
I have no doubt that there will be an extended period of goodwill expressed by most nations and his soaring rhetoric will play well among many people. Bush has set the bar so low that even slight improvements will seem like major accomplishments. But Obama has demonstrated that he's being manipulated and controlled. His positions waver based on which way the wind is blowing. He is easily bullied into right-wing stances.
US troops may come out of Iraq, but all of them won't necessarily be coming home as Obama has suddenly become a war-hawk and wants to chase ghosts in Afghanistan and attack Pakistan whenever he wants .. by the way, did I mention Iran?
On the central issue defining terrorism and the divide between the arab world and the west .. the middle east .. Obama sounds to the right of George Bush and Israel can do no wrong .. and by the way. let's send them billions more US taxpayer dollars. .. Arabs aren't even welcome in photo-ops.
I could go on .. my point isn't to burst anyone's bubble .. but the reason American politics is in the sad shape that it has become is because the American people don't demand anything of their politicians. Whether democrat or republican, as long as he can beat the other guy, that's all that counts.
That's about the best I can say about Mr. Obama .. he can beat the other guy.
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BAC, he's a politician, and that is my biggest disappointment w/ him - that's he's more or less "typical." He is talking tough because he feels he has to in a campaign. That's not an excuse, because it's been as disillusioning for me as it has for you.
That said, his disposition as far as the use of military force, once in office, will be 180 degress from where Bush & McCain are; I do not doubt that. He does not view the military the way they do, and will explore avenues that they would not have before engaging in further military action. There really is a huge difference between he & McCain on this.
That said, his disposition as far as the use of military force, once in office, will be 180 degress from where Bush & McCain are; I do not doubt that. He does not view the military the way they do, and will explore avenues that they would not have before engaging in further military action. There really is a huge difference between he & McCain on this.
BAC - If you think Obama has changed positions and only recently advocated putting more troops in Afghanistan and pursuing Al Qaeda in Pakistan than you simply haven't been paying attention. He's been saying this all along.
Diuretic
New member
I'm going to get all enthusiastic. Did you check the economy? I reckon Obama knows it's almost end game for unrestrained capitalism. I reckon he's got an eye on that and the rest of the world. Eight years. That takes him up to 2017. That's a big leap for humanity because right now we're at the crossroads. And it might just be that key countries (not mine, we're minnows) might be looking to the Obama-led US to sort things out.
I think it's time for an inspirational leader. I think it's Obama's time.
I think it's time for an inspirational leader. I think it's Obama's time.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
What happens when this "tactic" backfires and there is heated tension between Pakistan and our puppet government in Afghanistan?
Do you think Afghanis want to see more US troops running around their country chasing ghosts any more than Iraqis wanted them running around their country?
Who are the ghosts we're chasing in Afghanistan .. the Taliban? .. Bin Laden?
Bin Laden is from Saudia Arabia .. as were most of the hijackers. Do you believe Mr. Obama is going to threaten Saudia Arabia? .. So why are we killing people chasing ghosts?
Did I mention Iran?
Where is the fucking change that was promised?
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
My brother .. only those who haven't been paying attention believe he's been saying the same things all along.
Had he run in the primary with the same positions he's taking now Hillary Clinton would be the next president. Surely you not going to argue that's not true.
From Iraq to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, telecom immunity, and Fisa .. to handguns, death penalty .. and many others, he flipped with the wind.
In 2007, Barack Obama opposed the Foreign Intelligence and Surveillance Act bill which would protect telecommunication companies from lawsuits regarding eavesdropping of suspected terrorists. But by June 20, 2008 he said that he supports the new FISA bill because of “legitimate threats we face.”
The wind was blowing to the right.
But his position on Afghanistan speaks to the hollowness of his words. "Not only do we need to bring our troops home from Iraq, but we must change the mindset that set them there." What change in mindset?
He increasingly sounds like a war-hawk on Afghnaistan .. for what purpose?
Is he going to send ground troops into Pakistan?
It all depends on the wind.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You do that my friend .. hang on to that optimism.