40 hour minimum wage job not enough for 2 bedroom apartment

Bijou said:
Fine. And if the wages aren't enough to survive on, then tough shit - be homeless, go without basic needs, etc. That's your assertion, correct?
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Well, let's use an analogy here. Who should I go to to bail me out if I gamble my mortgage payments away? It's the same thing. My poor choices have lead to the same conclusion.

We're both arguing general instead of specific. In the current housing market, renting is a suckers game in the first place, it's not cheaper than most mortgages (certainly not cheaper than mine). Now if you wanted to argue about shady practices or something of a specific industry or company, then by and large I'd be on board with you. But you're not. You're arguing that people, on the very virtue of them being alive, should be guaranteed something that I have had to work for. So if I do not receive a proportionate rise in my quality of living because I have a set of valuable skills, what sort of motivation do I (the general I) have to build said set in the first place? If the reward does not match the effort, it isn't a reward. Therefore I (again, general I), will take the path of least resistance. If I can live on my own on a part time fry cooks wage, why should I go to school, or learn a trade? Sure I won't be making CEO pay, but that's unlikely at best even with education and/or expert skills, so why try if the standard of living for effort is not significantly different from the standard of no effort?
 
Rana said:
At times I slip into that mode, was I Wrong about your philosophy?
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YES. Holy fuck. I'm saying if you do not want to live with your parents (who should have learned a skill or two in their years) or a roommate of equalish income, fucking learn to be valuable or self sufficient.
 
Damocles said:
I doubt that. Normally people that work in those arenas use other options. Such as more than one person in the family working, roommates, supplemental food stamps, etc.
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That's nice. Let's assume we're discussing one person, and one income, making fry-cook wages (minimum wage in Los Angeles is $8.00 per hour). Let's assume he rents a room in Los Angeles for 500 a month, which includes utilities, and gets food stamps. Let's assume he has a car and it's paid for, and has no cell phone or internet. At eight bucks an hour and 40 hours a week, after taxes, he's going to bring home about $285 each week.

So, 1140 a month minus 500 for rent = $640 bucks to pay for gas for the car, insurance for the car, any necessary repairs for the car, clothing, toiletries, any food beyond what the food stamps purchase....and hopefully health care.

Think it's doable? If not, ensuring that a minimum standard for decent living is achievable for those making minimum wage somehow cheapens what you've 'earned' in what way? Please explain.
 
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Bijou said:
That's nice. Let's assume we're discussing one person, and one income, making fry-cook wages (minimum wage in Los Angeles is $8.00 per hour). Let's assume he rents a room in Los Angeles for 500 a month, which includes utilities, and gets food stamps. Let's assume he has a car and it's paid for, and has no cell phone or internet. At eight bucks an hour and 40 hours a week, after taxes, he's going to bring home about $285 each week.

So, 1140 a month minus 500 for rent = $640 bucks to pay for gas for the car, insurance for the car, any necessary repairs for the car, clothing, toiletries, any food beyond what the food stamps purchase....and hopefully health care.
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That's a fuck ton more than I made in the military, so I'd consider him/her a lucky son of a bitch. And with that money, he can spend $15 for an internet connection, and in his free time (which he'll have a lot of if he only works 40 hours a week) he can use it to educate himself and try and network for a better job.
 
Bijou said:
That's nice. Let's assume we're discussing one person, and one income, making fry-cook wages (minimum wage in Los Angeles is $8.00 per hour). Let's assume he rents a room in Los Angeles for 500 a month, which includes utilities, and gets food stamps. Let's assume he has a car and it's paid for, and has no cell phone or internet. At eight bucks an hour and 40 hours a week, after taxes, he's going to bring home about $285 each week.

So, 1140 a month minus 500 for rent = $640 bucks to pay for gas for the car, insurance for the car, any necessary repairs for the car, clothing, toiletries, any food beyond what the food stamps purchase....and hopefully health care.
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$640 to buy gas for the car? What? You're just spitting nonsense to hear yourself speak. I don't even pay that and I live far, far, far, from my work...

First of all, when I was on minimum wage I didn't have a car, I used a bus. In LA, the subway is also an option... a good one too. I bought clothes from Goodwill, and I had a roommate. I was able to not only afford to live, but have a decent social life as well. Even to buy a car, but I chose not to, the public transport was good enough for the time being and I needed the money to pay for school rather than insurance. We had some good times back then...
 
Damocles said:
$640 to buy gas for the car? What? You're just spitting nonsense to hear yourself speak. I don't even pay that and I live far, far, far, from my work...

First of all, when I was on minimum wage I didn't have a car, I used a bus. In LA, the subway is also an option... a good one too. I bought clothes from Goodwill, and I had a roommate. I was able to not only afford to live, but have a decent social life as well. Even to buy a car, but I chose not to, the public transport was good enough for the time being and I needed the money to pay for school rather than insurance. We had some good times back then...
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Damo, reread her post, the $640 isn't just for gas.
 
Damocles said:
$640 to buy gas for the car? What? You're just spitting nonsense to hear yourself speak. I don't even pay that and I live far, far, far, from my work...
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No, not just for the gas. $640 to cover gas - and everything else.

First of all, when I was on minimum wage I didn't have a car, I used a bus. In LA, the subway is also an option... a good one too. I bought clothes from Goodwill, and I had a roommate. I was able to not only afford to live, but have a decent social life as well. Even to buy a car, but I chose not to, the public transport was good enough for the time being and I needed the money to pay for school rather than insurance. We had some good times back then...
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You may assume that the subway is a good option, which it is, if you don't have a car. In L.A., a car is a necessity.

How many years ago were you on minimum wage?

My example doesn't include a roommate; he's renting a room. One room.
 
C'Thulhu said:
That's a fuck ton more than I made in the military, so I'd consider him/her a lucky son of a bitch. And with that money, he can spend $15 for an internet connection, and in his free time (which he'll have a lot of if he only works 40 hours a week) he can use it to educate himself and try and network for a better job.
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And the military - did they pay for your healthcare? housing? any training/schooling you sought?
 
Rana said:
Damo, reread her post, the $640 isn't just for gas.
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Basically, yes it is. The only 'expense' is insurance and occasional upkeep. At 18yo with a clean record it should be between $50 and $100 a month for basic auto insurance. Upkeep isn't usually a monthly expense. So we'll assume a couple nights out a month (minus another $150) and that leaves $310 to SAVE. Every month.
 
Bijou said:
And the military - did they pay for your healthcare? housing? any training/schooling you sought?
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Healthcare was go to the hospital and get 800mg of motrin and told to drink more water. Housing, no, I paid for that. School yeah, but I also wasn't a fry cook, so again, I had a better reward for my increase in skillset (or health risk, same principle).
 
C'Thulhu said:
Basically, yes it is. The only 'expense' is insurance and occasional upkeep. At 18yo with a clean record it should be between $50 and $100 a month for basic auto insurance. Upkeep isn't usually a monthly expense. So we'll assume a couple nights out a month (minus another $150) and that leaves $310 to SAVE. Every month.
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Really? Our subject never needs to do laundry? or buy clothes? or toothpaste? shampoo?

And no, 'upkeep' isn't necessary monthly. Let's look at what's necessary every so often - couple of times a year: brakes, oil changes, etc. Every couple of years or so - tires. Add those expenses up and then break them out by month.

It adds up.
 
C'Thulhu said:
Healthcare was go to the hospital and get 800mg of motrin and told to drink more water. Housing, no, I paid for that. School yeah, but I also wasn't a fry cook, so again, I had a better reward for my increase in skillset (or health risk, same principle).
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So, using yourself as an example to compare to our hypothetical fry cook doesn't really prove much, does it?
 
C'Thulhu said:
Basically, yes it is. The only 'expense' is insurance and occasional upkeep. At 18yo with a clean record it should be between $50 and $100 a month for basic auto insurance. Upkeep isn't usually a monthly expense. So we'll assume a couple nights out a month (minus another $150) and that leaves $310 to SAVE. Every month.
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Her statement was

So, 1140 a month minus 500 for rent = $640 bucks to pay for gas for the car, insurance for the car, any necessary repairs for the car, clothing, toiletries, any food beyond what the food stamps purchase....and hopefully health care.
 
Bijou said:
Really? Our subject never needs to do laundry? or buy clothes? or toothpaste? shampoo?

And no, 'upkeep' isn't necessary monthly. Let's look at what's necessary every so often - couple of times a year: brakes, oil changes, etc. Every couple of years or so - tires. Add those expenses up and then break them out by month.

It adds up.
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Yeah, it adds up. So get a roommate. That'll cut rent in half. If it's someone you work with, you can carpool and cut other expenses in half too, while you look for other jobs. If you're out of college, single, and are dependent on being a frycook, YOU fucked up somewhere. It's the sad truth, but still the truth.
 
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