Germans prove solar efficacy

R

Rune

Mjölner
http://www.treehugger.com/energy-policy/half-germany-was-powered-solar.html

[h=1]Last Weekend, Half of Germany Was Running on Solar Power[/h]
Here's how they did it, and how we can too
This is what can happen when citizens and government agree that it's worth spending a bit more for clean, carbon-free power:
German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity – equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity – through the midday hours of Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank has said ... Norbert Allnoch, director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster, said the 22 gigawatts of solar power fed into the national grid on Saturday met nearly 50% of the nation's midday electricity needs.​
That's right—half of all of Germany was powered by electricity generated by solar plants. That's incredible. It was also world record-breaking. Germany is pretty much singlehandedly proving that solar can be a major, reliable source of power—even in countries that aren't all that sunny. And it's the result, primarily, of two forces:
1) In the wake of Fukushima, Germany is shuttering all of its nuke plants, but has vowed to replace them with clean sources.
2) Germany instituted a feed-in-tariff (FIT) system—which requires utilities to buy solar power from producers, large and small, at a fixed rate—that has fueled the nation's solar boom. Basically, anyone can buy solar panels, set them up, plug them into the grid, and get paid for it.

I wonder how Tom will spin this?
 
=Rune;1018549]http://www.treehugger.com/energy-policy/half-germany-was-powered-solar.html

Last Weekend, Half of Germany Was Running on Solar Power


I wonder how Tom will spin this?
Click to expand...



As with so many greenwash stories this needs to despinned and set in context, so they had a very hot day in Germany, big deal. The average contribution of solar PV arrays in Germany is around 3%. Germany is also able to mothball some of their nuclear plants because they import electricity from other countries like Norway, Sweden and Poland at peak times. Companies like Bayer are threatening to leave Germany because energy costs are so high, they are already the highest in the EU and are destined to get much higher!


Germany is one of the world's top PV installers, with a solar PV capacity as of 2011 of almost 25 gigawatts (GW). The German solar PV industry installed about 7.5 GW in 2011,[SUP][2][/SUP] and solar PV provided 18 TWh (billion kilowatt-hours) of electricity in 2011, about 3% of total electricity.[SUP][3][/SUP] Some market analysts expect this could reach 25 percent by 2050.[SUP][4]
[/SUP]
Click to expand...
[SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/07/bayer-quit-germany-nuclear-shutdown[/SUP]
 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
As with so many greenwash stories this needs to despinned and set in context, so they had a very hot day in Germany, big deal. The average contribution of solar PV arrays in Germany is around 3%. Germany is also able to mothball some of their nuclear plants because they import electricity from other countries like Norway, Sweden and Poland at peak times. Companies like Bayer are threatening to leave Germany because energy costs are so high, they are already the highest in the EU and are destined to get much higher!


[SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/07/bayer-quit-germany-nuclear-shutdown[/SUP]
Click to expand...


Thanks Tom, you are certainly consistent, an admirable trait in anyone other than a paid fossil fuel shill.
So Tom, seeing as you are quite clearly an alternative energy expert, perhaps you can educate this board as to the source of the imported scandinavian electricity, and why that source is ideal for Germany's solar designs?

By the way, thanks for your inadverdant reminder that solar's prodution is greatest exactly when demand is highest.
 
Rune said:
Thanks Tom, you are certainly consistent, an admirable trait in anyone other than a paid fossil fuel shill.
So Tom, seeing as you are quite clearly an alternative energy expert, perhaps you can educate this board as to the source of the imported scandinavian electricity, and why that source is ideal for Germany's solar designs?

By the way, thanks for your inadverdant reminder that solar's prodution is greatest exactly when demand is highest.
Click to expand...

Surely solar power is most needed in winter especially in a cold country like Germany, as for Sweden and Norway most of that electricity comes from hydro. I notice that you have just ignored the fact that many German companies are really pissed off about high energy costs and may well vote with their feet and go to China, Brazil and India. Please explain to me how that will help lower CO[SUB]2[/SUB] emissions
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Surely solar power is most needed in winter especially in a cold country like Germany, as for Sweden and Norway most of that electricity comes from hydro.
Click to expand...

If it were used for electric heat, that would be true.
So you agree that Hydro is a perfect baseload source, and the Germans have designed another brilliant system?
 
Rune said:
If it were used for electric heat, that would be true.
So you agree that Hydro is a perfect baseload source, and the Germans have designed another brilliant system?
Click to expand...

What else would it be used for, German winters are long and can be very cold. Hydro is only a good baseload if it's available in sufficient quantity. Are you advocating damming every mountainous river and lake in the US? How many mountains are there in the Mid West?
 
Tom seems to be interested in profits only. Does he work for BP, or just own shares in BP?

BP remains committed to growing our Alternative Energy business. In 2011 we invested $1.6 billion, more than any previous year.

During 2011, our biofuels business acquired the Brazilian sugar and ethanol producer Companhia Nacional de Açúcar e Álcool (CNAA) and increased our share in the Brazilian biofuels company, Tropical BioEnergia S.A., to 100%.

Our wind business progressed three new wind farms in the US. We made several investments in sustainable energy technologies including Chromatin, a supplier of renewable biomass feedstocks for power, fuel and chemical producers.


http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9025019&contentId=7046515
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
What else would it be used for, German winters are long and can be very cold? Hydro is only a good baseload if it's available in sufficient quantity. Are you advocating damming every river in the US? How many mountains are there in the Mid West?
Click to expand...

Obviously it would'nt be good if it were insufficient. In the U.S. electricity is seldom used for heating, is it common in Europe?

As to damming rivers in the US, I am in favor of damming every river that enviromentalists will allowed to be dammed. Being of norwegian decent, I am well aware of the benefits to a society provided by an abundance of clean reliable hydropower.
As to the mountains, really? The Continental Divide, the Rockies, the Grand Canyon, noe of this is familar to you?
 
Rune said:
Obviously it would'nt be good if it were insufficient. In the U.S. electricity is seldom used for heating, is it common in Europe?

As to damming rivers in the US, I am in favor of damming every river that enviromentalists will allowed to be dammed. Being of norwegian decent, I am well aware of the benefits to a society provided by an abundance of clean reliable hydropower.
As to the mountains, really? The Continental Divide, the Rockies, the Grand Canyon, noe of this is familar to you?
Click to expand...

If you wait for environmentalists to approve anything, you would waiting an awfully long time!! So one of your bright ideas is to dam the Colorado, it's amazing that nobody has ever thought of that before!

Electricity is used for heating in Europe but gas is more popular, anyway what about all the extra lighting that is needed in winter? I notice that you still haven't dealt with the issue of German companies wanting to relocate because of astronomical energy prices!! This is something that dewy eyed treehuggers are loath to address because they are incredibly naive when it comes to such matters.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/...es-eon-to-axe-11000-jobs?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
 
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Re-Evaluating Germany's Blind Faith in the Sun

The 200-page book, entitled "Germany - Discover Renewable Energy," lists the sights of the solar age: the solar café in Kirchzarten, the solar golf course in Bad Saulgau, the light tower in Solingen and the "Alster Sun" in Hamburg, possibly the largest solar boat in the world. The only thing that's missing at the moment is sunshine. For weeks now, the 1.1 million solar power systems in Germany have generated almost no electricity. The days are short, the weather is bad and the sky is overcast.

As is so often the case in winter, all solar panels more or less stopped generating electricity at the same time. To avert power shortages, Germany currently has to import large amounts of electricity generated at nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic. To offset the temporary loss of solar power, grid operator Tennet resorted to an emergency backup plan, powering up an old oil-fired plant in the Austrian city of Graz.

Solar energy has gone from being the great white hope, to an impediment, to a reliable energy supply. Solar farm operators and homeowners with solar panels on their roofs collected more than €8 billion ($10.2 billion) in subsidies in 2011, but the electricity they generated made up only about 3 percent of the total power supply, and that at unpredictable times.
The distribution networks are not designed to allow tens of thousands of solar panel owners to switch at will between drawing electricity from the grid and feeding power into it. Because there are almost no storage options, the excess energy has to be destroyed at substantial cost. German consumers already complain about having to pay the second-highest electricity prices in Europe.

Read the rest...

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ermany-s-blind-faith-in-the-sun-a-809439.html
 
RazorX said:
Re-Evaluating Germany's Blind Faith in the Sun

The 200-page book, entitled "Germany - Discover Renewable Energy," lists the sights of the solar age: the solar café in Kirchzarten, the solar golf course in Bad Saulgau, the light tower in Solingen and the "Alster Sun" in Hamburg, possibly the largest solar boat in the world. The only thing that's missing at the moment is sunshine. For weeks now, the 1.1 million solar power systems in Germany have generated almost no electricity. The days are short, the weather is bad and the sky is overcast.

As is so often the case in winter, all solar panels more or less stopped generating electricity at the same time. To avert power shortages, Germany currently has to import large amounts of electricity generated at nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic. To offset the temporary loss of solar power, grid operator Tennet resorted to an emergency backup plan, powering up an old oil-fired plant in the Austrian city of Graz.

Solar energy has gone from being the great white hope, to an impediment, to a reliable energy supply. Solar farm operators and homeowners with solar panels on their roofs collected more than €8 billion ($10.2 billion) in subsidies in 2011, but the electricity they generated made up only about 3 percent of the total power supply, and that at unpredictable times.
The distribution networks are not designed to allow tens of thousands of solar panel owners to switch at will between drawing electricity from the grid and feeding power into it. Because there are almost no storage options, the excess energy has to be destroyed at substantial cost. German consumers already complain about having to pay the second-highest electricity prices in Europe.

Read the rest...

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ermany-s-blind-faith-in-the-sun-a-809439.html
Click to expand...

I never thought I would ever say this but you are right!! Never mind winter, summer has been effectively cancelled for large parts of Europe. In the UK, we have been worrying about a drought for nearly two years and just when water companies were banning hosepipes the heavens have opened. Last month was very sunny with some days touching 30 deg C and some people saying that this is climate change in action. I notice that they are very silent now as June is heading to be one of the dampest and coldest on record. By the way, we have plenty solar panels on roofs in the UK as the government also provides a feed in tariff.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wall-floods-gale-force-winds-hit-Britain.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wall-floods-gale-force-winds-hit-Britain.html
 
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For the benefit of Rune, who will most likely just ignore it anyway, here is the second part of that Der Spiegel article.

Part 2: Solar Energy's 'Extreme and Even Excessive Boom'

Another critical voice, the German Advisory Council on the Environment, argues that far too much money is being invested in solar energy. "Solar energy has recently experienced nothing less than an extreme and even excessive boom," says environmental expert Olav Hohmeyer, noting that this jeopardizes acceptance of renewable energy even before the energy transition has truly begun.
Solar lobbyists like to dazzle the public with impressive figures on the capability of solar energy. For example, they say that all installed systems together could generate a nominal output of more than 20 gigawatts, or twice as much energy as is currently being produced by the remaining German nuclear power plants.
But this is pure theory. The solar energy systems can only operate at this peak capacity when optimally exposed to the sun's rays (1,000 watts per square meter), at an optimum angle (48.2 degrees) and at the ideal solar module temperature (25 degrees Celsius, or 77 degrees Fahrenheit) -- in other words, under conditions that hardly ever exist outside a laboratory.

A Costly and Unnecessary Dual Structure

In fact, all German solar energy systems combined produce less electricity than two nuclear power plants. And even that number is sugarcoated, because solar energy in a relatively cloudy country like Germany has to be backed up with reserve power plants. This leads to a costly, and basically unnecessary, dual structure. Figures indicating the peak performance of solar energy systems are easily misunderstood, a report by the German Physical Society says. "Essentially," the report concludes, "solar energy cannot replace any additional power plants."
In Germany, solar is by far the most inefficient technology among renewable energy sources, and yet it receives the most subsidies. Some 56 percent of all green energy subsidies go to solar systems, which produce only 21 percent of subsidized energy.
The relationships are just the reverse for wind energy. For the same cost, wind supplies at least five times as much electricity as solar, while hydroelectric power plants generate six times as much. Even biomass plants are still three times as efficient as solar. Because of the poor electricity yield, solar energy production also saves little in the way of harmful carbon dioxide emissions, especially compared to other possible subsidization programs. To avoid a ton of CO2 emissions, one can spend €5 on insulating the roof of an old building, invest €20 in a new gas-fired power plant or sink about €500 into a new solar energy system.
The benefit to the climate is the same in all three cases. "From the standpoint of the climate, every solar system is a bad investment," says Joachim Weimann, an environmental economist in the eastern German city of Magdeburg. Hans-Werner Sinn of the Munich-based Ifo Institute for Economic Research calls solar energy a "waste of money at the expense of climate protection."
For a time, it seemed that at least the German solar industry was benefiting from the generous subsidy rates. But the green economic miracle has, in the case of the solar industry, turned out to be a subsidy bubble.

Germany's Declining Share in the Solar Business

In 2004, Germany held a 69 percent share of the global solar panel business. By 2011, it had declined to 20 percent. Former industry giant Solarworld, based in the western city of Bonn, is having problems. Solon and Solar Millennium, once considered model companies, have gone out of business. Schott Solar shut down a plant that was producing solar cells in Alzenau near Frankfurt, shedding 276 jobs and losing €16 million in government subsidies in the process.
Chinese competitors offer systems of equivalent quality at significantly lower prices. It appears that the subsidies have made the German manufacturers lethargic. They invest only 2 to 3 percent of revenues in research and development, compared with an average of 6 percent in the auto industry and about 30 percent in biomedicine.
Economics Minister Rösler wants to cap subsidies for solar energy systems. Under his proposal, further expansion would be limited to 1,000 megawatts this year, or 6,500 megawatts less than last year. A proposal by the Monopolies Commission, which is supported by the German Council of Economic Experts, goes even further.
The economists want to eliminate the subsidization of solar energy under the Renewable Energy Law. They argue that energy providers should be required to satisfy a green electricity quota, but without specifying in detail what they should do to fulfill the quota. This would stimulate competition to come up with the best technology.
According to the experts, the advantage over the current system is obvious: Money would no longer be invested in places where the highest subsidies are paid, but where the most green electricity can be generated.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...many-s-blind-faith-in-the-sun-a-809439-2.html


 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
For the benefit of Rune, who will most likely just ignore it anyway, here is the second part of that Der Spiegel article.

Part 2: Solar Energy's 'Extreme and Even Excessive Boom'

Another critical voice, the German Advisory Council on the Environment, argues that far too much money is being invested in solar energy. "Solar energy has recently experienced nothing less than an extreme and even excessive boom," says environmental expert Olav Hohmeyer, noting that this jeopardizes acceptance of renewable energy even before the energy transition has truly begun.
Solar lobbyists like to dazzle the public with impressive figures on the capability of solar energy. For example, they say that all installed systems together could generate a nominal output of more than 20 gigawatts, or twice as much energy as is currently being produced by the remaining German nuclear power plants.
But this is pure theory. The solar energy systems can only operate at this peak capacity when optimally exposed to the sun's rays (1,000 watts per square meter), at an optimum angle (48.2 degrees) and at the ideal solar module temperature (25 degrees Celsius, or 77 degrees Fahrenheit) -- in other words, under conditions that hardly ever exist outside a laboratory.

A Costly and Unnecessary Dual Structure

In fact, all German solar energy systems combined produce less electricity than two nuclear power plants. And even that number is sugarcoated, because solar energy in a relatively cloudy country like Germany has to be backed up with reserve power plants. This leads to a costly, and basically unnecessary, dual structure. Figures indicating the peak performance of solar energy systems are easily misunderstood, a report by the German Physical Society says. "Essentially," the report concludes, "solar energy cannot replace any additional power plants."
In Germany, solar is by far the most inefficient technology among renewable energy sources, and yet it receives the most subsidies. Some 56 percent of all green energy subsidies go to solar systems, which produce only 21 percent of subsidized energy.
The relationships are just the reverse for wind energy. For the same cost, wind supplies at least five times as much electricity as solar, while hydroelectric power plants generate six times as much. Even biomass plants are still three times as efficient as solar. Because of the poor electricity yield, solar energy production also saves little in the way of harmful carbon dioxide emissions, especially compared to other possible subsidization programs. To avoid a ton of CO2 emissions, one can spend €5 on insulating the roof of an old building, invest €20 in a new gas-fired power plant or sink about €500 into a new solar energy system.
The benefit to the climate is the same in all three cases. "From the standpoint of the climate, every solar system is a bad investment," says Joachim Weimann, an environmental economist in the eastern German city of Magdeburg. Hans-Werner Sinn of the Munich-based Ifo Institute for Economic Research calls solar energy a "waste of money at the expense of climate protection."
For a time, it seemed that at least the German solar industry was benefiting from the generous subsidy rates. But the green economic miracle has, in the case of the solar industry, turned out to be a subsidy bubble.

Germany's Declining Share in the Solar Business

In 2004, Germany held a 69 percent share of the global solar panel business. By 2011, it had declined to 20 percent. Former industry giant Solarworld, based in the western city of Bonn, is having problems. Solon and Solar Millennium, once considered model companies, have gone out of business. Schott Solar shut down a plant that was producing solar cells in Alzenau near Frankfurt, shedding 276 jobs and losing €16 million in government subsidies in the process.
Chinese competitors offer systems of equivalent quality at significantly lower prices. It appears that the subsidies have made the German manufacturers lethargic. They invest only 2 to 3 percent of revenues in research and development, compared with an average of 6 percent in the auto industry and about 30 percent in biomedicine.
Economics Minister Rösler wants to cap subsidies for solar energy systems. Under his proposal, further expansion would be limited to 1,000 megawatts this year, or 6,500 megawatts less than last year. A proposal by the Monopolies Commission, which is supported by the German Council of Economic Experts, goes even further.
The economists want to eliminate the subsidization of solar energy under the Renewable Energy Law. They argue that energy providers should be required to satisfy a green electricity quota, but without specifying in detail what they should do to fulfill the quota. This would stimulate competition to come up with the best technology.
According to the experts, the advantage over the current system is obvious: Money would no longer be invested in places where the highest subsidies are paid, but where the most green electricity can be generated.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...many-s-blind-faith-in-the-sun-a-809439-2.html
Click to expand...

I have already read Der Spiegel's article long before RacistX published it here. It is as lopsided as the the one I published in the OP.

Please stop calling Rootbeer a troll. Why would you lower yourself to the level of the conservatards who have no defense against him besides their insults?
 
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