Egyptian Democracy!

[blackascoal]

We could have done what Dixie suggested. Which is, btw, what you suggested we have been doing - but which we didn't do in Egypt.

No, we could not have done what Dixie suggested. If we could we would have. However, if they seek closer ties to Iran or stand in the way of Israel's dream of marginalizing the Palestinians into a shoebox, we will do exactly as Dixie has suggested .. exactly as we have been doing for years.

 

[blackascoal]

As long as the people are choosing there own leadership and government, I am happy with it.

I agree with you brother.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I dont care if they void agreements or attempt to base law on any religen, as long as it is the will of the people and can be changed when it is no longer the will of the people.

I would care if they did that in the USA because we have a Constitution that prohibits it.

Here's the thing that really gets me. How do you KNOW that the elections were legitimate and, in fact, the will of the people? Are you merely taking the word of the radical Islamics who took over and who won the elections? How do you know they didn't cheat? How do you know they are being honest?

I wouldn't have any problem with Egyptians holding free democratic elections, if that's what I thought were happening. I know better! I'm not some naive little twit who accepts whatever I am spoon-fed by my masters. I know these people lie and manipulate the vote, and ultimately put into power, who THEY want in power, not who the people want. They simply don't have an integral and well-monitored election system like we do! They don't have the protections against fraud and assurances of accurate tallies, like we do! The elections aren't overseen by both parties, or observed by independent parties like the UN. The radical jihadists said they had an election and they won, and YOU take that at face value... the people have spoken! It's bullshit!

 

[blackascoal]

LMAO... so you ignore the fact that Chavez silences his opponents, shuts down media that criticizes him etc...??? You call that more integrity?

The fact that you ignore what is going on in Venezuela shows that you care more about the fact that he is socialist (which you obviously are biased towards) than what actually happens in Venezuela.

That said, the human condition in Venezuela improved dramatically because oil prices went up from the late 90's until today. That said, it could have been better if not for the price controls of Chavez. It is those price controls that lead to shortages in food and other staples. Venezuela would be booming if under a more capitalistic society vs. socialism.

Again, no disrespect intended, but this again is obviously an issue that you have not studied. Your elections are OWNED and operated by the corporate will. Why didn't you comment on that? You're looking through a tainted lens talking about issues in Venezuela while ignoring even more critical issues in your own country.

Is your own capitalistic society "booming?" Absolutely not.

Venezuelans have cradle-to-grave free healthcare and education. Do you?

Am I suggesting that Venezuela is a perfect society without problems? Absolutely not.

Am I suggesting that Venezuelans are exponentially better off today than when our puppet was ruling the country? I most certainly am and I have the evidence to prove it. In fact, the same is true of Cuba.

You seem to believe that capitalism solves all problems when that isn't even true in your own capitalistic nation where your government and politicians are OWNED by the plutocracy.

The human condition improved in Venezuela because Chavez put in place policies to improve it .. and I defy you to challenge that truth.

 

[blackascoal]

Here's the thing that really gets me. How do you KNOW that the elections were legitimate and, in fact, the will of the people? Are you merely taking the word of the radical Islamics who took over and who won the elections? How do you know they didn't cheat? How do you know they are being honest?

I wouldn't have any problem with Egyptians holding free democratic elections, if that's what I thought were happening. I know better! I'm not some naive little twit who accepts whatever I am spoon-fed by my masters. I know these people lie and manipulate the vote, and ultimately put into power, who THEY want in power, not who the people want. They simply don't have an integral and well-monitored election system like we do! They don't have the protections against fraud and assurances of accurate tallies, like we do! The elections aren't overseen by both parties, or observed by independent parties like the UN. The radical jihadists said they had an election and they won, and YOU take that at face value... the people have spoken! It's bullshit!

Strange.

You somehow believe that your own elections aren't manipulated.

 

[Phantasmal]

Again, no disrespect intended, but this again is obviously an issue that you have not studied. Your elections are OWNED and operated by the corporate will. Why didn't you comment on that? You're looking through a tainted lens talking about issues in Venezuela while ignoring even more critical issues in your own country.

Is your own capitalistic society "booming?" Absolutely not.

Venezuelans have cradle-to-grave free healthcare and education. Do you?

Am I suggesting that Venezuela is a perfect society without problems? Absolutely not.

Am I suggesting that Venezuelans are exponentially better off today than when our puppet was ruling the country? I most certainly am and I have the evidence to prove it. In fact, the same is true of Cuba.

You seem to believe that capitalism solves all problems when that isn't even true in your own capitalistic nation where your government and politicians are OWNED by the plutocracy.

Amen

 

[Onceler]

Here's the thing that really gets me. How do you KNOW that the elections were legitimate and, in fact, the will of the people? Are you merely taking the word of the radical Islamics who took over and who won the elections? How do you know they didn't cheat? How do you know they are being honest?

I wouldn't have any problem with Egyptians holding free democratic elections, if that's what I thought were happening. I know better! I'm not some naive little twit who accepts whatever I am spoon-fed by my masters. I know these people lie and manipulate the vote, and ultimately put into power, who THEY want in power, not who the people want. They simply don't have an integral and well-monitored election system like we do! They don't have the protections against fraud and assurances of accurate tallies, like we do! The elections aren't overseen by both parties, or observed by independent parties like the UN. The radical jihadists said they had an election and they won, and YOU take that at face value... the people have spoken! It's bullshit!

And yet you had no problem w/ Bush's election in 2000 or 2004. Interesting...

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Again, no disrespect intended, but this again is obviously an issue that you have not studied. Your elections are OWNED and operated by the corporate will. Why didn't you comment on that? You're looking through a tainted lens talking about issues in Venezuela while ignoring even more critical issues in your own country.

Why would I comment on it when you won't comment on Chavez shutting down opposition, shutting down the media etc.???

Is your own capitalistic society "booming?" Absolutely not.

It is far superior to Venezuela. Their only life blood is oil. That is it. Just ask Russia how well that works out when commodity prices fall. Venezuela got a 20% reduction in their revenue as oil went from $100 to under $80.

Venezuelans have cradle-to-grave free healthcare and education. Do you?

They also have to wait in long lines just to hope to get meat. Do you?

Am I suggesting that Venezuela is a perfect society without problems? Absolutely not.

I did not mean to imply that you were. But to ignore the problems with their elections and the thuggery that Chavez displays towards opponents is not something one would do when comparing our elections.

Am I suggesting that Venezuelans are exponentially better off today than when our puppet was ruling the country? I most certainly am and I have the evidence to prove it. In fact, the same is true of Cuba.

Again, Venezuela is better off exponentially because oil went from about $10/brl in 1999 to $100 very recently... though it has dropped back down to $80.

You seem to believe that capitalism solves all problems when that isn't even true in your own capitalistic nation where your government and politicians are OWNED by the plutocracy.

It doesn't solve all problems by any means, but it is by far the best political structure mankind has tried thus far.

Also... is this not OUR country? Did you move?

 

[apple0154]

Venezuela has more integrity in its elections? Come on. That stretches imagination to the point of complete absurdity. The extent that Chavez has gone to in order to eliminate dissent is beyond the pale. How can you say it has integrity when he shuts down all media that dare to criticize him? When he consolidates the power of Venezuela into the executive as he has done? Hell, even Chomsky stated as much last year.

Venezuela over the past decade has drifted away from democracy and is heading in the direction of a dictatorship.

I'm not up to date on the current intricacies of Venezuela but consider the following. Look how the US has been on "lockdown" since 911. From searches to surveillance to being given the bum's rush out of the country (rendition) due to internal terrorists and considering the documented external interference South American countries like Chile have endured over the years it's quite understandable Chavez is the way he is. He knows there are powers constantly trying to stir the proverbial pot.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

No, we could not have done what Dixie suggested. If we could we would have. However, if they seek closer ties to Iran or stand in the way of Israel's dream of marginalizing the Palestinians into a shoebox, we will do exactly as Dixie has suggested .. exactly as we have been doing for years.

Let me just say, I don't know of a time that we've EVER done what I suggested. Most of the time, even if that is what we set out to do, we end up getting mired down in congressional debate, or having to go begging the UN for support. Other times, we should have taken my approach, cooler heads prevailed and we sought a path to 'diplomacy' instead. A good example would be MacArthur, and how he wanted to handle the Russians at the end of WWII. Had we followed his advice, we would have avoided about 60 years of Cold War, and probably the wars in Korea and Vietnam as well.

Since the nuking of Japan, we have become pussies. Unwilling to take affirmative action and get the job done. We want to gravitate toward 'diplomacy' and mealy-mouth around about how we all need to get along and have peace and love, and grow daisies. We've tried bribery and payoffs to dictators who we weren't willing to take out, and that hasn't worked very well for us. We've tried funding opposition and overthrowing regimes, and that hasn't worked either. The one thing that we KNOW will work to change the mindset, is American force... in full... without apology! It worked in Japan... here is a country who was committed to our destruction to the point of suicide, vowing a fight to the death... two nukes later, and their attitude changed completely, and now they are one of our strongest and most reliable allies.

All it would take to change the minds of radical Islam, would be to turn 'Mecca' into a giant glass fish bowl, and dare the rest of them to call our bluff.

 

[Onceler]

Since the nuking of Japan, we have become pussies. Unwilling to take affirmative action and get the job done. .

You are really a sick sort of person, Dix.

 

[Onceler]

Dix, how can you claim to be a Christian (which you have), or anyone with any kind of values, and believe that nuking innocent civilians is a viable foreign policy option?

Unreal. You are a hypocrite to the extreme - and amoral.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Let me just say, I don't know of a time that we've EVER done what I suggested. Most of the time, even if that is what we set out to do, we end up getting mired down in congressional debate, or having to go begging the UN for support. Other times, we should have taken my approach, cooler heads prevailed and we sought a path to 'diplomacy' instead. A good example would be MacArthur, and how he wanted to handle the Russians at the end of WWII. Had we followed his advice, we would have avoided about 60 years of Cold War, and probably the wars in Korea and Vietnam as well.

Since the nuking of Japan, we have become pussies. Unwilling to take affirmative action and get the job done. We want to gravitate toward 'diplomacy' and mealy-mouth around about how we all need to get along and have peace and love, and grow daisies. We've tried bribery and payoffs to dictators who we weren't willing to take out, and that hasn't worked very well for us. We've tried funding opposition and overthrowing regimes, and that hasn't worked either. The one thing that we KNOW will work to change the mindset, is American force... in full... without apology! It worked in Japan... here is a country who was committed to our destruction to the point of suicide, vowing a fight to the death... two nukes later, and their attitude changed completely, and now they are one of our strongest and most reliable allies.

All it would take to change the minds of radical Islam, would be to turn 'Mecca' into a giant glass fish bowl, and dare the rest of them to call our bluff.

You are truly insane!!

 

[blackascoal]

Let me just say, I don't know of a time that we've EVER done what I suggested. Most of the time, even if that is what we set out to do, we end up getting mired down in congressional debate, or having to go begging the UN for support. Other times, we should have taken my approach, cooler heads prevailed and we sought a path to 'diplomacy' instead. A good example would be MacArthur, and how he wanted to handle the Russians at the end of WWII. Had we followed his advice, we would have avoided about 60 years of Cold War, and probably the wars in Korea and Vietnam as well.

Since the nuking of Japan, we have become pussies. Unwilling to take affirmative action and get the job done. We want to gravitate toward 'diplomacy' and mealy-mouth around about how we all need to get along and have peace and love, and grow daisies. We've tried bribery and payoffs to dictators who we weren't willing to take out, and that hasn't worked very well for us. We've tried funding opposition and overthrowing regimes, and that hasn't worked either. The one thing that we KNOW will work to change the mindset, is American force... in full... without apology! It worked in Japan... here is a country who was committed to our destruction to the point of suicide, vowing a fight to the death... two nukes later, and their attitude changed completely, and now they are one of our strongest and most reliable allies.

All it would take to change the minds of radical Islam, would be to turn 'Mecca' into a giant glass fish bowl, and dare the rest of them to call our bluff.

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia .. and next on the hit list, Iran .. again.

This is the short list from your nation of "pussies."

We are the biggest warmongers on the face of planet earth.

You seem not to know the limits of military power. That is indeed unfortunate. It appears that Vietnam nor Iraq nor Afghanistan has taught you nothing.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And yet you had no problem w/ Bush's election in 2000 or 2004. Interesting...

No I didn't have a problem with that, because we have certified state election boards, local probate judges who took oaths to conduct fair elections, poll watchers from across the spectrum, making sure that everything is on the up and up. We have an entire democratic system that has been in place and functioning for over 200 years. We have rules about campaigning, which are designed to give everyone a fair shot and no party to be favored over another. Whenever impropriety is alleged, we have bipartisan investigations and get to the bottom of it. We hold the integrity of our process in highest regard, because it is crucial to a free society. Egypt doesn't even comprehend what any of this means, they have an entirely different system.

 

[blackascoal]

Why would I comment on it when you won't comment on Chavez shutting down opposition, shutting down the media etc.???



It is far superior to Venezuela. Their only life blood is oil. That is it. Just ask Russia how well that works out when commodity prices fall. Venezuela got a 20% reduction in their revenue as oil went from $100 to under $80.



They also have to wait in long lines just to hope to get meat. Do you?



I did not mean to imply that you were. But to ignore the problems with their elections and the thuggery that Chavez displays towards opponents is not something one would do when comparing our elections.



Again, Venezuela is better off exponentially because oil went from about $10/brl in 1999 to $100 very recently... though it has dropped back down to $80.



It doesn't solve all problems by any means, but it is by far the best political structure mankind has tried thus far.

Also... is this not OUR country? Did you move?

I don't feel the need to prove anything to you brother. No need for bad feelings.

Venezuela is better off because Chavez put in place policies to improve the human condition of his people. I defy you to challenge that .. or not. :0) THAT is the bottom line of my argument. They are better off not becuase the price of oil went up .. but because Chavez decided to spend that money on his ppeople, not divert it to the already rich as we do.

Don't look now, but capitalism is failing all over the world.

Yes, this is my country and I am already aware that our government is owned and operated by corporations. It appears that you do not.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia .. and next on the hit list, Iran .. again.

This is the short list from your nation of "pussies."

We are the biggest warmongers on the face of planet earth.

You seem not to know the limits of military power. That is indeed unfortunate. It appears that Vietnam nor Iraq nor Afghanistan has taught you nothing.

What they should continue to teach us, is how right we were to take swift and overwhelming action in Japan. It's what works!

I hate war too! That's why I think we need to AVOID wars! There is no need for them in this day and age, it's barbaric. We should just send over the B-2s armed with a couple of tactical nukes, and illustrate what we are capable of. Then, I bet they would be willing to sit down and have an adult conversation about where we are heading and what we're doing. And no... I have no problem whatsoever in 'forcing' them to adopt a US-style constitutional republic form of government, where the people have the freedom to govern themselves. I make NO apologies for that.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

-I hate war too! That's why I think we need to AVOID wars!

-There is no need for them in this day and age, it's barbaric.

- We should just send over the B-2s armed with a couple of tactical nukes, and illustrate what we are capable of.

Not only does this make no sense, it's completely dissonant, but it's also out and out psychopathic.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I don't feel the need to prove anything to you brother. No need for bad feelings.

Venezuela is better off because Chavez put in place policies to improve the human condition of his people. I defy you to challenge that .. or not. :0) THAT is the bottom line of my argument. They are better off not becuase the price of oil went up .. but because Chavez decided to spend that money on his ppeople, not divert it to the already rich as we do.

Don't look now, but capitalism is failing all over the world.

Yes, this is my country and I am already aware that our government is owned and operated by corporations. It appears that you do not.

It seems some haven't noticed.

 

[Onceler]

What they should continue to teach us, is how right we were to take swift and overwhelming action in Japan. It's what works!

Osama wanted to get America in a state of fear & spending tons of money on security & protection, so he knocked down the twin towers. Hey - it's what works!

Explain to me how you're different from Osama.