How does it feel to now be a taxpayer?

Howey said:
Sure!

http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf
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LMFAO.... SO you give me the 2200-page bill that no one has read?

Look... Find the part of the bill that says the tax rates for people over $200k is going up... that's all I want!

Let me save you the time of reading through the pile of shit... IT AIN'T IN THERE!

This thing was entirely funded by playing a shell game with Medicare funds, and offsetting the costs by 10 years, when Obama & Company are LONG GONE! There is no provision for a tax increase, anywhere in the legislation. There is a provision for certain people to pay an excise fee for so-called "cadillac plans" and there is a penalty and mandate, which the courts ruled could stand as a "tax" but there isn't a specific provision to increase tax rates on ANYONE! It would have NEVER passed Congress, had that been the case, because it would have taken a supermajority.... which it didn't have.
 
Onceler said:
For starters, that ain't true. Lots of individuals and families have gone bankrupt because of lack of heathcare.
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No, I am sorry... no one has EVER gone bankrupt because they lacked health care. That doesn't even comport with logic. Now, there ARE cases where people incur catastrophic health care costs they can't repay, and they have to file bankruptcy. Is that what you meant? Okay.... so you oppose the system we have, whereby, a person can absolve themselves from indebtedness by simply filing a legal document? You think we can come up with something BETTER than that? I'm all ears!!

Second, when it IS true - when people do get healthcare and the taxpayers pick up the tab - it's usually well after it could have been much cheaper to care for whatever they need to be treated for. Preventative care can save a fortune.
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Again, it's like I am talking to a brick wall... HEALTH CARE CLINICS offer cheap or FREE health care, including "preventative care" to people who can't afford it. We've been doing this for years and years! Why didn't they go to the FREE health clinic when it could have saved their health? Why did they wait until well after it could have been cheaper to deal with at the FREE clinic? Is some evil Republican group blockading the entrance to Health Clinics or something?

But you connies are always pennywise, pound-foolish about that stuff. I don't know how I feel about ACA in general, but I know there ARE things in it that will prove a benefit to everyone.
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You don't even know what is fucking IN the bill! You haven't read it, nor have your Congressmen! You just tap into some of that liberal HOPE that you have, and DREAM that it solves all our problems, because that's what The Messiah told you it would do. Now you march out there again, like a good little liberal soldier, and you tell them connies like it is! MORON!
 
Just so we are not duped by the idiots, ACA is not a tax, the penalty part of the mandate is!
 
Jarod said:
Just so we are not duped by the idiots, ACA is not a tax, the penalty part of the mandate is!
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The ACT is NOT a TAX! No one has claimed it is!

The ONLY way the SCOTUS could find to allow the law to stand, was under Congressional power to tax.

Ergo: Obamacare IS essentially, a tax. The funding for it, is effectively a TAX, because it can't be anything else, and be constitutional.

Now, you can play funny cute little liberal semantics games with this... you have obviously heard this from some brainiac over at HuffPo... but the fact of the matter is, the Supreme Court ruled Obamacare can't stand under the commerce clause and can only be constitutional as a tax.

YES.... the penalty and the mandate are TAX... again... couldn't constitutionally exist if they weren't. The BILL is a 2,200 page document... it's not "a tax" it is a very comprehensive piece of legislation. The FUNDING for the bill, the thing that makes the bill functionally work... THAT is a TAX. It can't be anything else, and still be constitutional... or so the court ruled Thursday.
 
The only way they could find to allow the penalty provision of the mandate to stand was as a tax.

Your premise is wrong again!
 
Jarod said:
The only way they could find to allow the penalty provision of the mandate to stand was as a tax.

Your premise is wrong again!
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So I am just hallucinating when I read Roberts' opinion regarding the funding from Medicare and other sources? Those don't really exist? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

Jughead... the SCOTUS ruled the only way this law could stand, was under Congressional power to tax. Therefore, it IS a tax.

I know that isn't what you want to head into November with.... I fully understand! But that's the facts, deal with it!
 
Dixie said:
So I am just hallucinating when I read Roberts' opinion regarding the funding from Medicare and other sources? Those don't really exist? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

Jughead... the SCOTUS ruled the only way this law could stand, was under Congressional power to tax. Therefore, it IS a tax.

I know that isn't what you want to head into November with.... I fully understand! But that's the facts, deal with it!
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You simply are not ontelegent enough to understand a very plainly written s.ct. Decision.
 
Jarod said:
Yurt understands...
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Yurt understands the same thing I am telling you.

The BILL ITSELF is a comprehensive piece of legislation, it has all kinds of regulations and guidelines that don't have a thing to do with tax. The funding for the bill, the thing that makes the bill function in practicality... is a TAX. It can't be anything else, and be constitutional. This includes the cost of implementing it, the penalties, the mandates... ALL of it is TAX... it can't exist constitutionally, otherwise. The court found, the commerce clause does not apply, it can't be regulated by the Federal government using the commerce clause. It can appropriate a TAX to fund it, if Congress wants. That is left entirely to Congress.
 
Dixie said:
Here's what you need to do, sweetheart... Go out and plop down a cool million for the MRI machine. Then find you a couple of nice radiology techs certified in doing MRIs to run it. Rent your building, and oh... hire a receptionist, pay the necessary fees and licensing... THEN, you can decide what you need to charge in order to pay for all of this and still make enough to buy groceries this week.

I've already explained "other countries" to about every socialist here... We aren't "other countries" ....we have a constitution, and a SCOTUS, and there is a limit to the power our government has to do this sort of thing. We're a free nation, with free market capitalism, and free enterprise. We lead the world in almost every area of technology, science, and medicine, precisely because of this. We don't want to be like "other countries" who can't do this.

If you don't know how to go about fixing this, it's better if you stay out of the way and stop trying to dream up Utopian solutions that can't work. Magic fairies aren't going to come down and make health care things cheap and inexpensive... that isn't going to happen in our universe. Turning our freedoms over to government, is also not going to do a thing about cost... except maybe make it cost more, because the government is picking up the tab and not some poor schmuck on a budget.

And people aren't denied health care because they are poor. I really wish you people would stop spreading that lie. For DECADES we have had, in EVERY state, and every COUNTY, federally-supported state health clinics. These clinics are open normal hours, and are available to anyone who is part of the general public.... (you're part of the general public, right?) If you have low income or no income, you don't pay! It's absolutely FREE to people who can't afford it. If you require some sort of surgery or procedure requiring a hospital, there is Medicaid to pitch in, and the hospital is obligated by law, to give you the care and treatment you require.
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Let's see if I got this correct. The poor don't pay but those who have a few savings and a home have to liquidate their assets to the level of poverty before they're considered poor. After they've lost all their assets they've accumulated over decades of savings, thrown their spouse and children into poverty and endured the resulting stress help in on it's way. Gee, that must really benefit an ill individual.

Talk about the patient having a good mental attitude. We'll cover your medical expenses but when you get well you're doomed to a life of poverty because we've taken everything you had. Why would anyone want to change that medical plan????
 
Onceler said:
(Originally posted by Dixie) And people aren't denied health care because they are poor. I really wish you people would stop spreading that lie. For DECADES we have had, in EVERY state, and every COUNTY, federally-supported state health clinics. These clinics are open normal hours, and are available to anyone who is part of the general public.... (you're part of the general public, right?) If you have low income or no income, you don't pay! It's absolutely FREE to people who can't afford it. If you require some sort of surgery or procedure requiring a hospital, there is Medicaid to pitch in, and the hospital is obligated by law, to give you the care and treatment you require.
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LOL

Gee - what do you think pays for that stuff, Dix?
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I think Dix previously mentioned something about a medical fairy if I recall correctly. :dunno:
 
apple0154 said:
I think Dix previously mentioned something about a medical fairy if I recall correctly. :dunno:
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No, I mentioned that Liberals like you and nimrod, believe in some magical medical fairy. I don't.

I believe that the Federal government, in coordination with the states, LONG AGO, established "universal health care" in America. Any city of 20k or more, some smaller, have a public health clinic, and it is completely free to use for people who have no means to pay. This is funded with our tax dollars already.... before anyone ever thought about Obamacare.

Why don't you ever actually address this point? Why is it, every time I bring this up, you run away and find something else to yammer about?

No... you and the other mental retard, find it more entertaining to pretend that I am contradicting my principles because I am obviously okay with state-run health clinics, but not complete federally-run health care. All I have done, is refute your LIE that poor people lack access to health care, or that we aren't already providing a form of "universal care" for every American.
 
apple0154 said:
The government already has those funds. By ensuring everyone has medical insurance it is going to be cheaper than to pay for the medical bills run up by the uninsured.
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No, the government doesn't already have the funds. You've been misinformed.

What you are talking about, would require Federal regulation under the commerce clause... which can't happen now, because of SCOTUS.

Regardless of what you believe it would be cheaper for the government to do, their hands are tied here... they can't do what you think they should, it violates the constitution. They can pass a TAX to do this, but that's not going to happen... Obamacare would have NEVER passed as a tax.
 
Onceler said:
For starters, that ain't true. Lots of individuals and families have gone bankrupt because of lack of heathcare.

Second, when it IS true - when people do get healthcare and the taxpayers pick up the tab - it's usually well after it could have been much cheaper to care for whatever they need to be treated for. Preventative care can save a fortune.

But you connies are always pennywise, pound-foolish about that stuff. I don't know how I feel about ACA in general, but I know there ARE things in it that will prove a benefit to everyone.
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If I recall all health plans now have to offer free preventative exams/check-ups. Such basic common sense and the President of the United States has to kick ass in order for it to be implemented. And people ask why the government has to get involved. :rolleyes:
 
Rana said:
I have people who work for hospitals, doctors, it doesn't cost as much as they charge. Let's take eye glasses as an example, the frames are bought in bulk averaging around $5 for the frames, my niece says, they turn around and sell the frames for over $100.00, by the time you add the lenses you are looking at close to $300 to $400 fr a single pair of glasses.

You go ahead and pretend that these places are just barely eeking by, I know better!
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Years ago, I had my eyes tested and the glasses cost me over $200.00. I had a bit of a problem reading some fine print. A few years later the Dollar Store offered reading glasses for $1.99. I bought 5 pairs. One for the bedroom. One for the living room. One for my workshop. One in the car and a spare pair. They do exactly the same thing as my $200.00 pair. LOL

The only diffrence I noticed is the lens are plastic rather than glass and the paint remover I use to refinish antique furniture melts the lens. Fortunately, I had bought a spare pair. :)
 
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