Gee... I thought the health care debate was settled?

[apple0154]

RUN THAT CIRCLE, APPLE!

You appear to be trying to say that their HC doesn't add to the Governments debt, which is causing them to fall apart!!

The only circle is my having to explain the same thing, over and over. OK, we'll take it from the top, again.

Emergency medical is covered so the government or someone has to pay for that if a person does not have insurance. If everyone had contributed to a medical plan the money would be available, otherwise, it costs the government or hospital or, ultimately, you more money. Also, we have to remember that people who have insurance are more likely to visit a doctor if they think they may have a problem. Early detection is crucial to saving money as I previously noted regarding the $80 tooth extraction compared to the $250,000+ expense when the infection spread.

Medical care does not contribute to a country’s debt. It does the opposite as study after study has shown savings of 1/3 or more. Are you not able to read the charts? Do you not believe the charts? What is causing the confusion in your mind?

 

[apple0154]

See... that's the thing. You keep ignoring this point and not hearing what I say, because you have tuned out any other opinion on the matter... but... We ALREADY HAVE FREE HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYBODY WHO CAN'T AFFORD INSURANCE! It is funded through HHS with our tax dollars, ALREADY... BEFORE Obamacare was ever even a thought! It's called Medicaid! A rose by any other name....

But that rose called Medicaid restricts some people. That rose you call medicaid leads people to bankruptcy. You're offering nothing more than the thorny stem and calling it a rose.

 

[apple0154]

Sorry, but purchasing insurance does not protect you from sickness or death.

Tell that to the woman who worked two jobs to pay for cancer treatments and ultimately died because she couldn't afford them.

The FF's goal was to give you as much FREEDOM as humanly possible, because it's your inalienable right to be free.

What does contributing to health insurance have to do with freedom other than not having insurance means one is not free to obtain medical care?

 

[apple0154]

There was indeed medical care. Ben Franklin is credited with opening the first public hospital in America. Now I am not sure what they did there, perhaps sat around fires outside their caves, talking about the spirits, or the dispositions of the witch doctors? But they certainly DID have some form of health care, else they wouldn't need a hospital. And the fact that Ben Franklin was instrumental in building one, you have to assume the FFs did KNOW about health care, and did realize how important it was. STILL... they did not see fit to write into the Constitution, government's responsibility to provide health care to the people.

Oh, please. There was nothing in the way of medical care. They didn't even know about bacteria. One was more likely to die due to a doctor's intervention than by being left alone.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The only circle is my having to explain the same thing, over and over. OK, we'll take it from the top, again.

Emergency medical is covered so the government or someone has to pay for that if a person does not have insurance.

Sorry, but someone will have to pay for it even if that person does have insurance. Emergency services are not free.

If everyone had contributed to a medical plan the money would be available

It depends on how many is "everybody" and how many claims are filed.

, otherwise, it costs the government or hospital or, ultimately, you more money.

Anything in a capitalist society is paid for by the consumer or 'taxpayer.' There is no other source of money.

Also, we have to remember that people who have insurance are more likely to visit a doctor if they think they may have a problem.

Yes, and adding 40 million people who can do this, while not adding any new doctors, is a recipe for health care rationing.

Early detection is crucial to saving money as I previously noted regarding the $80 tooth extraction compared to the $250,000+ expense when the infection spread.

In that example, you never explained why this person couldn't use the public health clinic for an extraction. The best you could do, was post some liberal chortling about how those places sometimes make you wait a month. However, this is not the experience of the millions who have used such facilities.

Early detection is GREAT! That's why we currently fund, with our tax dollars, a whole host of screenings and such, through Medicare and Medcaid, and every so often, even for people who aren't poor or old and who already have insurance. The problem is, there are some people who simply avoid early detection and screenings, because of whatever reason. It's free, so it's not because of cost... Perhaps it's just that some people have a fear of doctors? Or maybe they convince themselves they don't need to be checked? Now... there is absolutely NO health care plan that will make people go to the doctor.

Medical care does not contribute to a country’s debt.

Yes, it most certainly does, if we try to insure everybody and provide "free" health care. The CBO projected Obamacare would cost $10 trillion over 10 years, and that was BEFORE the SCOTUS took the Medicaid funding off the table. It will have to be re-scored now, and will probably be closer to $12 trillion.

It does the opposite as study after study has shown savings of 1/3 or more. Are you not able to read the charts? Do you not believe the charts? What is causing the confusion in your mind?

Anybody with Microsoft Office can make a chart. I can "study" a cloud long enough, and see ELVIS! So no... personally, I don't believe in charts and studies.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

The only circle is my having to explain the same thing, over and over. OK, we'll take it from the top, again.

Emergency medical is covered so the government or someone has to pay for that if a person does not have insurance. If everyone had contributed to a medical plan the money would be available, otherwise, it costs the government or hospital or, ultimately, you more money. Also, we have to remember that people who have insurance are more likely to visit a doctor if they think they may have a problem. Early detection is crucial to saving money as I previously noted regarding the $80 tooth extraction compared to the $250,000+ expense when the infection spread.

Medical care does not contribute to a country’s debt. It does the opposite as study after study has shown savings of 1/3 or more. Are you not able to read the charts? Do you not believe the charts? What is causing the confusion in your mind?

So first you assert the Government of those countries are paying for the HC; but who's paying the money into the Government.
Then you try to say that it's not a debt for the Government.

Spin it apple.
SPIN IT FASTER.

 

[apple0154]

Anybody with Microsoft Office can make a chart. I can "study" a cloud long enough, and see ELVIS! So no... personally, I don't believe in charts and studies.

Then why don't you take the time and do your own research instead of remaining ignorant?

 

[apple0154]

So first you assert the Government of those countries are paying for the HC; but who's paying the money into the Government.
Then you try to say that it's not a debt for the Government.

Spin it apple.
SPIN IT FASTER.

As you said any money the government receives is money the people gave it so any debt the government acquires is debt the people acquire. Right? Soooo, if medical care in countries with government insurance costs 1/3 less than in the US that means the people are 1/3 less in debt. Do you not like saving money?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

As you said any money the government receives is money the people gave it so any debt the government acquires is debt the people acquire. Right? Soooo, if medical care in countries with government insurance costs 1/3 less than in the US that means the people are 1/3 less in debt. Do you not like saving money?

But we were talking about those economies failing, so it appears that you have no problem with Health Care programs that cause a Government's economy to fail.
Shame on you.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Then why don't you take the time and do your own research instead of remaining ignorant?

I've done my research, along with about 55% of the rest of America, who are getting a little tired of you calling us ignorant. Come January 2013, when us ignorants seat our majority Congress, we are going to repeal Obamacare... and you can cry about how ignorant we are, and you know what we'll say?

 

[The_Nationalist]

Now obummer wants to give healthcare to a bunch of temp workers, sittin on there ass and takin my hard urned money. he's the worse president since that filanthropist slick willy.

"I was surprised to learn two weeks ago that federal firefighters, including many combating brutal wildfires in Colorado, are considered temporary employees who are ineligible for health care coverage through the Forest Service. They're working incredibly dangerous jobs under life-threatening conditions, but many go without insurance.

President Obama is poised to change that. The Denver Post reported yesterday on a shift in administration policy.

President Barack Obama has directed federal officials to offer seasonal firefighters the option of purchasing federal health insurance coverage, White House officials told The Denver Post Tuesday.

On a recent trip to Colorado Springs, the president was apparently moved by the men and women firefighters he met, senior administration officials said in an interview Tuesday. When he returned to Washington, he told his cabinet that he wanted to "find a solution" for the hundreds of workers toiling in dangerous conditions without the option to buy in to federal insurance.

Some of the details are still coming together -- it's unclear how long the temporary firefighters, many of whom take other jobs during the winter, will qualify -- but it appears to be a huge step forward. The administration's Office of Personnel Management is expected to present the specifics within a week, though if I had to guess, I'd say the move will probably involve directing the Forest Service to reclassify temporary firefighters as permanent, thus expanding their benefits eligibility.

Whatever the mechanism, the access to health insurance for these firefighters will begin later this month. I suspect it's highly unlikely Republicans will complain about "another Obama power grab" once the decision is made official, but I suppose one never knows for sure."

 

[The_Nationalist]

I was surprised to learn two weeks ago that federal firefighters, including many combating brutal wildfires in Colorado, are considered temporary employees who are ineligible for health care coverage through the Forest Service. They're working incredibly dangerous jobs under life-threatening conditions, but many go without insurance.

President Obama is poised to change that. The Denver Post reported yesterday on a shift in administration policy.

President Barack Obama has directed federal officials to offer seasonal firefighters the option of purchasing federal health insurance coverage, White House officials told The Denver Post Tuesday.

On a recent trip to Colorado Springs, the president was apparently moved by the men and women firefighters he met, senior administration officials said in an interview Tuesday. When he returned to Washington, he told his cabinet that he wanted to "find a solution" for the hundreds of workers toiling in dangerous conditions without the option to buy in to federal insurance.

Some of the details are still coming together -- it's unclear how long the temporary firefighters, many of whom take other jobs during the winter, will qualify -- but it appears to be a huge step forward. The administration's Office of Personnel Management is expected to present the specifics within a week, though if I had to guess, I'd say the move will probably involve directing the Forest Service to reclassify temporary firefighters as permanent, thus expanding their benefits eligibility.

Whatever the mechanism, the access to health insurance for these firefighters will begin later this month. I suspect it's highly unlikely Republicans will complain about "another Obama power grab" once the decision is made official, but I suppose one never knows for sure.

 

[apple0154]

But we were talking about those economies failing, so it appears that you have no problem with Health Care programs that cause a Government's economy to fail.
Shame on you.

Health care does not cause economies to fail. Health care saves money.

 

[apple0154]

I've done my research, along with about 55% of the rest of America, who are getting a little tired of you calling us ignorant. Come January 2013, when us ignorants seat our majority Congress, we are going to repeal Obamacare... and you can cry about how ignorant we are, and you know what we'll say?

Here is an example of how confused you really are. You start a thread titled "Gee... I thought the health care debate was settled?" and go on to rant about Liberals continuing the discussion and then write, "Come January 2013, when us ignorants seat our majority Congress, we are going to repeal Obamacare."

All the statistics, without exception, show government health care saves money. The citizens in every country that implemented government health care insist on keeping it. Those opposed to government health care have either not done the research or are selfish, greedy individuals who proceed to cut off their nose to spite their face, in a manner of speaking. There is no logical reason to oppose government health care other than believing the lies the Repubs have told.

Oh, well. After Jan/13 and ObamaCare swings into high gear you'll come to realize the benefits. It's all good, Dix.

 

[apple0154]

Duplicate post.

 

[apple0154]

I was surprised to learn two weeks ago that federal firefighters, including many combating brutal wildfires in Colorado, are considered temporary employees who are ineligible for health care coverage through the Forest Service. They're working incredibly dangerous jobs under life-threatening conditions, but many go without insurance.

President Obama is poised to change that. The Denver Post reported yesterday on a shift in administration policy.

President Barack Obama has directed federal officials to offer seasonal firefighters the option of purchasing federal health insurance coverage, White House officials told The Denver Post Tuesday.

On a recent trip to Colorado Springs, the president was apparently moved by the men and women firefighters he met, senior administration officials said in an interview Tuesday. When he returned to Washington, he told his cabinet that he wanted to "find a solution" for the hundreds of workers toiling in dangerous conditions without the option to buy in to federal insurance.

Some of the details are still coming together -- it's unclear how long the temporary firefighters, many of whom take other jobs during the winter, will qualify -- but it appears to be a huge step forward. The administration's Office of Personnel Management is expected to present the specifics within a week, though if I had to guess, I'd say the move will probably involve directing the Forest Service to reclassify temporary firefighters as permanent, thus expanding their benefits eligibility.

Whatever the mechanism, the access to health insurance for these firefighters will begin later this month. I suspect it's highly unlikely Republicans will complain about "another Obama power grab" once the decision is made official, but I suppose one never knows for sure.

It's a tough call but generally the Repubs consider anything that helps people is either a power grab or is unconstitutional.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I was surprised to learn two weeks ago that federal firefighters, including many combating brutal wildfires in Colorado, are considered temporary employees who are ineligible for health care coverage through the Forest Service. They're working incredibly dangerous jobs under life-threatening conditions, but many go without insurance.

President Obama is poised to change that. The Denver Post reported yesterday on a shift in administration policy.

President Barack Obama has directed federal officials to offer seasonal firefighters the option of purchasing federal health insurance coverage, White House officials told The Denver Post Tuesday.

On a recent trip to Colorado Springs, the president was apparently moved by the men and women firefighters he met, senior administration officials said in an interview Tuesday. When he returned to Washington, he told his cabinet that he wanted to "find a solution" for the hundreds of workers toiling in dangerous conditions without the option to buy in to federal insurance.

Some of the details are still coming together -- it's unclear how long the temporary firefighters, many of whom take other jobs during the winter, will qualify -- but it appears to be a huge step forward. The administration's Office of Personnel Management is expected to present the specifics within a week, though if I had to guess, I'd say the move will probably involve directing the Forest Service to reclassify temporary firefighters as permanent, thus expanding their benefits eligibility.

Whatever the mechanism, the access to health insurance for these firefighters will begin later this month. I suspect it's highly unlikely Republicans will complain about "another Obama power grab" once the decision is made official, but I suppose one never knows for sure.

if you paste something from someone's blog, it's considered good form to include a link so people won't think you're plagiarizing something....
http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/11/12679740-obama-to-extend-health-coverage-to-federal-firefighters?lite

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Health care does not cause economies to fail. Health care saves money.

And now you're saying that the cost of their healthcare has nothing to do with their failing economies.
I'm sure they would be glad for you to tell them that.

 

[apple0154]

And now you're saying that the cost of their healthcare has nothing to do with their failing economies.
I'm sure they would be glad for you to tell them that.

How do you think health care causes an economy to fail?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

How do you think health care causes an economy to fail?

It's not the health care, it's the government trying to PAY for health care of everyone. If you take a trip to Vegas with your own hard-earned savings, your behavior is much different than if you went and the government was paying for everything. Even a shit head like you should understand that. The same is true with health care, we simply can't afford to have everyone using the system and thinking of it as "free" for the taking. Doctors and nurses don't work for free, and they don't plan to do so under Obamacare. 85% of the doctors in America have stated they will stop practicing if this becomes permanent in 2014. Does the government have any sort of plan to deal with this? How are you going to administer health care to 30-40 million extra people, with 85% fewer doctors? I'll tell ya how... you'll pay the remaining 15% a TON of cash, and you'll have to ration services. This means, it will be even MORE expensive to see a doctor, and you'll only be able to see the doctor when some bureaucrat signs off on it.

And contrary to your little diatribe about other countries never opting to go back... you won't ever have THAT option. The two options will be, take it or leave it. There is no going back to something you've torched and destroyed. Once it's gone, it's gone forever. People really need to think about this, "free health care" is a pig in a poke. It SOUNDS good, but it doesn't work. It hasn't even worked in Canada, they've had to re-introduce capitalist measures, just to keep the turd floating.