Gee... I thought the health care debate was settled?

healthcare and health insurance are not the same thing.

Fortunately there is no penalty in the law for not paying the penalty/tax/personal responsibility waiver or whatever the fuck B. Hussein Yobabymama is calling it these days. So I choose not to pay it.

:fu:
 
apple0154 said:
How do you think health care causes an economy to fail?
Click to expand...

In a society where the people expect the nanny state to pay for the majority of what they "want", the money comes out of the Governments coffers.
Obviously those Governments are failing; because they are spending more then they have coming in and Health Care is an expediture, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it. :D
 
Dixie said:
It's not the health care, it's the government trying to PAY for health care of everyone. If you take a trip to Vegas with your own hard-earned savings, your behavior is much different than if you went and the government was paying for everything. Even a shit head like you should understand that. The same is true with health care, we simply can't afford to have everyone using the system and thinking of it as "free" for the taking. Doctors and nurses don't work for free, and they don't plan to do so under Obamacare. 85% of the doctors in America have stated they will stop practicing if this becomes permanent in 2014. Does the government have any sort of plan to deal with this? How are you going to administer health care to 30-40 million extra people, with 85% fewer doctors? I'll tell ya how... you'll pay the remaining 15% a TON of cash, and you'll have to ration services. This means, it will be even MORE expensive to see a doctor, and you'll only be able to see the doctor when some bureaucrat signs off on it.

And contrary to your little diatribe about other countries never opting to go back... you won't ever have THAT option. The two options will be, take it or leave it. There is no going back to something you've torched and destroyed. Once it's gone, it's gone forever. People really need to think about this, "free health care" is a pig in a poke. It SOUNDS good, but it doesn't work. It hasn't even worked in Canada, they've had to re-introduce capitalist measures, just to keep the turd floating.
Click to expand...

I don't recall ever knowing someone who is so wrong about so many things. How do you think people will abuse health care? Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?

85% of doctors will quit? Sure, Dix. They'll sell their homes and cars, live in a slum apartment and work at McDonalds. I can't believe you'd even repeat such nonsense regardless of where you came across such craziness.

As for Canada having to re-introduce capitalist measures to keep government health care alive you have that backwards. The law was those measures were forbidden precisely so there wouldn't be a two-tier system. The "capitalists" sued the government to be able to open private medical establishments. The government was against it but the Canadian Supreme Court ruled against the government.

You see, the scam is a doctor can operate out of a private clinic and charge what they want. When business is good, they're happy. When things slow down they take government patients. Now, we all know the vast majority of doctors are in the medical profession to make money. There are very few "Mother Teresas" or "Father Teresas". So, a patient goes to a government clinic and requires a medical procedure. If not urgent the doctor tells them there is a wait period, however, if they go through his clinic and pay he is available to do the procedure in a day or two. Do you see the conflict of interest? That is the problem which is still being addressed. In any case, it is not the government that is pro-private clinic. If the government didn't step in there would be private clinics all over the place so that puts to rest your silly idea a country can not return to a "pay or suffer" system if it so wished. There are investors just waiting like vultures to get into the medical business.

Once again, the citizens in every country with a government medical plan insist on keeping it. Every country, Dix. No exception. Try to let that sink in for a bit. Try to understand what they means. Every country started out with a "pay or suffer" system so it's not like the people don't know what it's like. Many countries do not have dental plans. The citizens know what it's like to pay hundreds of dollars for dental work and they can grasp the horror of not having a government medical plan. It really doesn't require a lot of thought.

So, please, do the research. Your ideas and views of government medical are not reality.
 
apple0154 said:
I don't recall ever knowing someone who is so wrong about so many things. How do you think people will abuse health care? Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?

85% of doctors will quit? Sure, Dix. They'll sell their homes and cars, live in a slum apartment and work at McDonalds. I can't believe you'd even repeat such nonsense regardless of where you came across such craziness.

As for Canada having to re-introduce capitalist measures to keep government health care alive you have that backwards. The law was those measures were forbidden precisely so there wouldn't be a two-tier system. The "capitalists" sued the government to be able to open private medical establishments. The government was against it but the Canadian Supreme Court ruled against the government.

You see, the scam is a doctor can operate out of a private clinic and charge what they want. When business is good, they're happy. When things slow down they take government patients. Now, we all know the vast majority of doctors are in the medical profession to make money. There are very few "Mother Teresas" or "Father Teresas". So, a patient goes to a government clinic and requires a medical procedure. If not urgent the doctor tells them there is a wait period, however, if they go through his clinic and pay he is available to do the procedure in a day or two. Do you see the conflict of interest? That is the problem which is still being addressed. In any case, it is not the government that is pro-private clinic. If the government didn't step in there would be private clinics all over the place so that puts to rest your silly idea a country can not return to a "pay or suffer" system if it so wished. There are investors just waiting like vultures to get into the medical business.

Once again, the citizens in every country with a government medical plan insist on keeping it. Every country, Dix. No exception. Try to let that sink in for a bit. Try to understand what they means. Every country started out with a "pay or suffer" system so it's not like the people don't know what it's like. Many countries do not have dental plans. The citizens know what it's like to pay hundreds of dollars for dental work and they can grasp the horror of not having a government medical plan. It really doesn't require a lot of thought.

So, please, do the research. Your ideas and views of government medical are not reality.
Click to expand...

"Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?"

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Leave it to Apple to try and refute an entire presentation, by going to the extreme; but then, that is what Apple does. He's either at nothing or everything; because in Apple's world everything is black and white, with no shades of gray or color. :D
 
apple0154 said:
I don't recall ever knowing someone who is so wrong about so many things. How do you think people will abuse health care? Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?

85% of doctors will quit? Sure, Dix. They'll sell their homes and cars, live in a slum apartment and work at McDonalds. I can't believe you'd even repeat such nonsense regardless of where you came across such craziness.

As for Canada having to re-introduce capitalist measures to keep government health care alive you have that backwards. The law was those measures were forbidden precisely so there wouldn't be a two-tier system. The "capitalists" sued the government to be able to open private medical establishments. The government was against it but the Canadian Supreme Court ruled against the government.

You see, the scam is a doctor can operate out of a private clinic and charge what they want. When business is good, they're happy. When things slow down they take government patients. Now, we all know the vast majority of doctors are in the medical profession to make money. There are very few "Mother Teresas" or "Father Teresas". So, a patient goes to a government clinic and requires a medical procedure. If not urgent the doctor tells them there is a wait period, however, if they go through his clinic and pay he is available to do the procedure in a day or two. Do you see the conflict of interest? That is the problem which is still being addressed. In any case, it is not the government that is pro-private clinic. If the government didn't step in there would be private clinics all over the place so that puts to rest your silly idea a country can not return to a "pay or suffer" system if it so wished. There are investors just waiting like vultures to get into the medical business.

Once again, the citizens in every country with a government medical plan insist on keeping it. Every country, Dix. No exception. Try to let that sink in for a bit. Try to understand what they means. Every country started out with a "pay or suffer" system so it's not like the people don't know what it's like. Many countries do not have dental plans. The citizens know what it's like to pay hundreds of dollars for dental work and they can grasp the horror of not having a government medical plan. It really doesn't require a lot of thought.

So, please, do the research. Your ideas and views of government medical are not reality.
Click to expand...

'Abuse' health care! Yeah, I think I'll throw myself down the stairs so I can get a cast on my leg...

:rofl2:

Excellent post. Fucking excellent.
 
Damocles said:
Yet we watch as entitlements are killing the economies of Europe...
Click to expand...

Granted, there are entitlements that need to be trimmed. Pensions are one thing. Some governments tax back pensions depending on the income a person receives from other sources. My solution would be a guaranteed income to replace various government programs.

In the case of Greece and probably other countries corruption is rampant. There needs to be a crackdown on people who don't pay the proper taxes. A real crackdown. It should be treated as theft because that’s what it is.

I was watching a program ( I forget which one) and they were discussing the crash of the world's economy and one guy said, "Someone has the money. It didn't disappear off the planet."

If there were enough houses and food for people when they were employed and the houses never burnt down and there wasn't a crop failure then there has to be homes and food now.

The world is changing and we still operate in much the same way we did 200 years ago as far as money and affording the necessities of life is concerned. Just as we have the technology to look after the ill we have the know-how to feed and house everyone. Things have to change, to adapt.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
In a society where the people expect the nanny state to pay for the majority of what they "want", the money comes out of the Governments coffers.
Obviously those Governments are failing; because they are spending more then they have coming in and Health Care is an expediture, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it. :D
Click to expand...

The point is the money is being spent by individuals anyway meaning there is enough money to cover everyone. As a country the money spent on medical care is more than enough to cover everyone as witnessed by the savings every government medical plan offers. The total spent on government medical care would be less and everyone would be covered.

If medical insurance/care costs a family a $1,000/mth and government medical would cost, say, $700/mth isn't it better to pay $700 more in taxes and nothing for medical care?
 
apple0154 said:
Granted, there are entitlements that need to be trimmed. Pensions are one thing. Some governments tax back pensions depending on the income a person receives from other sources. My solution would be a guaranteed income to replace various government programs.

In the case of Greece and probably other countries corruption is rampant. There needs to be a crackdown on people who don't pay the proper taxes. A real crackdown. It should be treated as theft because that’s what it is.

I was watching a program ( I forget which one) and they were discussing the crash of the world's economy and one guy said, "Someone has the money. It didn't disappear off the planet."

If there were enough houses and food for people when they were employed and the houses never burnt down and there wasn't a crop failure then there has to be homes and food now.

The world is changing and we still operate in much the same way we did 200 years ago as far as money and affording the necessities of life is concerned. Just as we have the technology to look after the ill we have the know-how to feed and house everyone. Things have to change, to adapt.
Click to expand...

"My solution would be a guaranteed income to replace various government programs."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Leave it to Apple to break the tension, by supplying a little humor.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
"Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?"

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Leave it to Apple to try and refute an entire presentation, by going to the extreme; but then, that is what Apple does. He's either at nothing or everything; because in Apple's world everything is black and white, with no shades of gray or color. :D
Click to expand...

How does a person abuse medical care? Granted, there are hypochondriacs but they're few and far between. A referral system addresses that problem by having people see a family doctor or even a nurse, in some cases. Who wants unnecessary medical care? I can't address specifics if you generalize.
 
apple0154 said:
How does a person abuse medical care? Granted, there are hypochondriacs but they're few and far between. A referral system addresses that problem by having people see a family doctor or even a nurse, in some cases. Who wants unnecessary medical care? I can't address specifics if you generalize.
Click to expand...

But you're the one that offered the only option MUST be that they must be planning on doing things like "Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?"

Leave it to Apple to try and refute an entire presentation, by going to the extreme; but then, that is what Apple does. He's either at nothing or everything; because in Apple's world everything is black and white, with no shades of gray or color. :D
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
"My solution would be a guaranteed income to replace various government programs."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Leave it to Apple to break the tension, by supplying a little humor.
Click to expand...

What's so funny? Isn't that already the policy regarding pensions/SS? Every poor, elderly individual is entitled to something, aren't they?

The Conservatives always talk about personal responsibility but entitlement to government programs demands a person give up personal responsibility. Take welfare and food stamps. As I mentioned before a person living in the country may be able to obtain food at local road stands. If given money instead of stamps they could budget that money for other things.

Maybe someone could move in with family so a portion of welfare shouldn't be tied to rent.

Maybe someone knows an individual who works at a second hand store and they watch out for donations of clothing that fit their unemployed friend.

The point being let the people allocate the money themselves. Encourage them to take responsibility instead of penalizing them for having a room mate or forced to purchase food with food stamps and then sell it half price to someone else.

Conservatives say Liberals are never happy with social programs. Now you know a couple of the reasons. Why can't the government help without interfering? When it becomes a battle with the government doing all it can to find ways to penalize people what do they expect is going to be the reaction?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
But you're the one that offered the only option MUST be that they must be planning on doing things like "Deliberately break their arm? Stand out in the rain on a cold day hoping to catch a cold? Purposely leave food on the counter until it spoils so they can get food poisoning?"

Leave it to Apple to try and refute an entire presentation, by going to the extreme; but then, that is what Apple does. He's either at nothing or everything; because in Apple's world everything is black and white, with no shades of gray or color. :D
Click to expand...

No specifics, huh? Oh, well. What else is new? Like the opposition to ObamaCare all kinds of accusations/hypotheticals/what ifs and absolutely nothing to back them up. :palm:
 
apple0154 said:
What's so funny? Isn't that already the policy regarding pensions/SS? Every poor, elderly individual is entitled to something, aren't they?

The Conservatives always talk about personal responsibility but entitlement to government programs demands a person give up personal responsibility. Take welfare and food stamps. As I mentioned before a person living in the country may be able to obtain food at local road stands. If given money instead of stamps they could budget that money for other things.

Maybe someone could move in with family so a portion of welfare shouldn't be tied to rent.

Maybe someone knows an individual who works at a second hand store and they watch out for donations of clothing that fit their unemployed friend.

The point being let the people allocate the money themselves. Encourage them to take responsibility instead of penalizing them for having a room mate or forced to purchase food with food stamps and then sell it half price to someone else.

Conservatives say Liberals are never happy with social programs. Now you know a couple of the reasons. Why can't the government help without interfering? When it becomes a battle with the government doing all it can to find ways to penalize people what do they expect is going to be the reaction?
Click to expand...

Now Apple wants to wag a "WAR ON POVERTY" like they did with drugs and education.
He wants to just throw more money at it! :D

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
apple0154 said:
No specifics, huh? Oh, well. What else is new? Like the opposition to ObamaCare all kinds of accusations/hypotheticals/what ifs and absolutely nothing to back them up. :palm:
Click to expand...

Please stop Apple.
Your presentations have me laughing so hard, that my sides hurt.


Apples solutrion to everythng is just throw more money at it. :D

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Please stop Apple.
Your presentations have me laughing so hard, that my sides hurt.


Apples solutrion to everythng is just throw more money at it. :D

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Click to expand...

Well, at least throw a ladder at it so a person has something to fall off of. I mean, how are people living in a non-basement bungalow supposed to break a leg if they don't have stairs?
 
apple0154 said:
Well, at least throw a ladder at it so a person has something to fall off of. I mean, how are people living in a non-basement bungalow supposed to break a leg if they don't have stairs?
Click to expand...

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You really need to gather all of your comments in a book of comedy. :D
 
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