Bill Moyer on guns in USA

blackascoal said:
We have more guns in this society than most nations combined.

There is a direct co-orelation to a society inundated with guns and a society inundated with gun violence.

And, I might add, guns and violence are glorified far greater than in the past. Far beyond Buy Scout shooting competitions.

Either we find the courage to do something about guns, or we resign ourselves to becoming accustomed to the slaughter we just witnessed.

Resign ourselves to being incapable of governing a civil nation.
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I see your point, but I also disagree. I think that we have a violent society. We need to find the causes of that in order to become a more civilized nation.
 
WinterBorn said:
I see your point, but I also disagree. I think that we have a violent society. We need to find the causes of that in order to become a more civilized nation.
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I think the key is fear. Fear to the point that it often reaches paranoia. I would love to see an in depth, definitive study on this, believe me. You'd have to go back to pre-revolutionary times and start from there. Part of it is that Americans are terrified of dying. It's a large part of why we are such a religious people. God is like Santa Clause for grownups you know. Oh you're going to go to this place called heaven and prance around for eternity. Americans cling to this ridiculous belief because they are so terrified of dying.

And even though this is hard to believe and impossible to explain, Americans don't really believe they are going to die. That's why they are so willing to do anything that they believe will "keep them safe".

Those are just some of my observations. Like I said I would love to read a history of American fear and paranoia. Religion would play a huge role. But far from the only one.
 
WinterBorn said:
I see your point, but I also disagree. I think that we have a violent society. We need to find the causes of that in order to become a more civilized nation.
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The "information age" has changed things so rapidly, no one really knows how to keep up. It's one of the things I don't think the founders & framers of the constitution could have foreseen.

I don't know what the answers are, and it seems like some restriction of liberty is inevitable. It's no longer just "Hollywood needs to be more responsible". Most kids are inundated with violent imagery from the time they're in preschool. The internet alone is like the wild west - it's crazy what any child can be exposed to there.

There is no question that we not only celebrate guns in the current culture, but violence, as well. It's a real problem.
 
Darla said:
I think the key is fear. Fear to the point that it often reaches paranoia. I would love to see an in depth, definitive study on this, believe me. You'd have to go back to pre-revolutionary times and start from there. Part of it is that Americans are terrified of dying. It's a large part of why we are such a religious people. God is like Santa Clause for grownups you know. Oh you're going to go to this place called heaven and prance around for eternity. Americans cling to this ridiculous belief because they are so terrified of dying.

And even though this is hard to believe and impossible to explain, Americans don't really believe they are going to die. That's why they are so willing to do anything that they believe will "keep them safe".

Those are just some of my observations. Like I said I would love to read a history of American fear and paranoia. Religion would play a huge role. But far from the only one.
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Interesting point, we are a culture that does not respect age. We alter our bodies and faces and try to fight the inevitable. Thanks, interesting perspective. This fear of death with the belief that we are #1 is a dangerous combination.
 
Rana said:
Interesting point, we are a culture that does not respect age. We alter our bodies and faces and try to fight the inevitable. Thanks, interesting perspective. This fear of death with the belief that we are #1 is a dangerous combination.
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It goes much farther than that. We don't even use the WORDS for death. People don't die, they "pass on". There are so many ways people say "died" without saying the word. I always have to bite my tongue with someone says something like "We lost Dad last week.". I always want to suggest a search party.

We pass on. We lose someone. Its truly screwed up.
 
Onceler said:
The "information age" has changed things so rapidly, no one really knows how to keep up. It's one of the things I don't think the founders & framers of the constitution could have foreseen.

I don't know what the answers are, and it seems like some restriction of liberty is inevitable. It's no longer just "Hollywood needs to be more responsible". Most kids are inundated with violent imagery from the time they're in preschool. The internet alone is like the wild west - it's crazy what any child can be exposed to there.

There is no question that we not only celebrate guns in the current culture, but violence, as well. It's a real problem.
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I think the information age has a lot to do with it. First of all, news has become big business. The days when news was a service to inform are long gone. Now its all about ratings. And when do we watch the news? When we are scared or when there is a huge tragedy. So it is in the best interest of the news media to keep us scared and to report mainly on high body counts.

Also, never before have we had the news, in great detail, from all over the world. Before, when there was a massacre in India, England or South Afria, we got spotty reports at best. Now we have live broadcasts before the bodies are cold.

And lastly, this insane worship of all things celebrity is nuts. Whether they deserve celebrity status or not, people will do virtually anything to be famous. These nutballs want the fame of being a mass murderer.

I saw a story yesterday about a radio station that refuses to say the name of the murderer who gunned down the people in the theater. They vowed his name will never be spoken over their air waves. I don't think it will matter in the long run, that one radio station did this. But it is an interesting idea.
 
blackascoal said:
This guy could have passed every test given to him.

Anything sane would have to address the proliferation of guns in this country. Anything less is cowardly.

The United States has more guns than all the nations of the world. Does that makes us the safest?

Hell no.

The nation that comes in 2nd to the US in the proliferation of guns is YEMEN. And we pale them in comparison.

Let's hear more bullshit about guns and "freedom."

The arguments are mindless, not rooted in the intent of the Constitution, not founded by statistics and data that demonstrates guns make us safer or more free, and it doesn't even make common sense.

It's all about the "me" .. the "I."

How about the "us" .. the "people?"

I know, I'm a socialist.
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Without easy access to guns, this guy likely would have resorted to a bomb. All this talk of gun control. With bright orange hair and proclaiming to the police he is the joker, surprised there arent more calls for violent bat man movie control.
 
dixon76710 said:
Without easy access to guns, this guy likely would have resorted to a bomb. All this talk of gun control. With bright orange hair and proclaiming to the police he is the joker, surprised there arent more calls for violent bat man movie control.
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Any nation that is absolutely inundated with guns would be defined as a nation of fools if they didn't expect rampant, senseless gun violence along with its shitload of guns.

It's just that simple.
 
blackascoal said:
Any nation that is absolutely inundated with guns would be defined as a nation of fools if they didn't expect rampant, senseless gun violence along with its shitload of guns.

It's just that simple.
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I would be a much higher percentage of households in this country had guns in them 50 or 60 years ago. Butthis sort of crap didn't happen.
 
WinterBorn said:
I would be a much higher percentage of households in this country had guns in them 50 or 60 years ago. Butthis sort of crap didn't happen.
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I doubt if there were more guns in the hands of virtually everybody in the 50's and 60's as there are today. Yet we can't even have a sane conversation about automatic and semi-automatic weapons with clips.

We are not guided by reason.
 
blackascoal said:
Any nation that is absolutely inundated with guns would be defined as a nation of fools if they didn't expect rampant, senseless gun violence along with its shitload of guns.

It's just that simple.
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Russia bans handguns and auto weapons and has a 3 times murder rate of the US And I wouldnt consider our 4 or 5 per 100,000 murder rate to be rampant.
 
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58 Murders a year by Firearms in Britain, 8,775 in US

Number of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775

Number of Murders, Britain, 2011*: 638
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,095 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2011*: 58
(equivalent to 290 US murders)

Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain, 2011*: 2 (equivalent to 10 US murders).
For more on murder by firearms in Britain, see the BBC.

The international comparisons show conclusively that fewer gun owners per capita produce not only fewer murders by firearm, but fewer murders per capita over all. In the case of Britain, firearms murders are 30 times fewer than in the US per capita.

Do hunters really need semi-automatic AR-15 assault weapons? Is that how they roll in deer season? The US public doesn’t think so.
*British crime statistics are September to September, so 2011 is actually 2010-2011.

Posted on 07/21/2012 by Juan
 
signalmankenneth said:
Number of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775

Number of Murders, Britain, 2011*: 638
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,095 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2011*: 58
(equivalent to 290 US murders)

Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain, 2011*: 2 (equivalent to 10 US murders).
For more on murder by firearms in Britain, see the BBC.

The international comparisons show conclusively that fewer gun owners per capita produce not only fewer murders by firearm, but fewer murders per capita over all. In the case of Britain, firearms murders are 30 times fewer than in the US per capita.

Do hunters really need semi-automatic AR-15 assault weapons? Is that how they roll in deer season? The US public doesn’t think so.
*British crime statistics are September to September, so 2011 is actually 2010-2011.

Posted on 07/21/2012 by Juan
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Our culture is certainly a more violent culture than the UK's.

And the 2nd Amendment was not written for hunters. That is the least important use. It is about people being able to protect themselves and about being able to keep the gov't from becoming too corrupt.
 
signalmankenneth said:

Do hunters really need semi-automatic AR-15 assault weapons? Is that how they roll in deer season? The US public doesn’t think so.
*British crime statistics are September to September, so 2011 is actually 2010-2011.

Posted on 07/21/2012 by Juan
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Point out where hunting is mentioned in the Constitution. Or where it has anything to do with anything. Or why the AR15 is the most popular firearm in the country.

I'll wait.
 
dixon76710 said:
Russia bans handguns and auto weapons and has a 3 times murder rate of the US And I wouldnt consider our 4 or 5 per 100,000 murder rate to be rampant.
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There is a clear correlation between the availability of guns and gun violence.

International Gun Laws Show Firearm Availability is Related to Deaths
http://voices.yahoo.com/international-gun-laws-show-firearm-availability-is-310337.html

Gun Deaths - United States Tops The List
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

In a comparison with Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom (England and Wales), United Kingdom (Northern Ireland) and the United Kingdom (Scotland) .. the gun homicide rate in the US is 15 times higher that those nations. So yes, rampant is fitting.
 
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