The effects of Gun control

j-mac

Verified User
More Guns Equal Less Violent Crime
by Professor John R. Lott, Jr.
University of Chicago Law School
1111 East 60th Street, Chicago IL 60637

For the Democratic Party the solution to violent crime is clear - more regulation of guns. The convention speeches by James and Sarah Brady were filled with moving stories of their personal suffering. While the impacts described on both sides of the issue do exist, the crucial question underlying all gun-control laws is: What is their net effect? Are more lives lost or saved? Do they deter crime or encourage it? Anecdotal evidence obviously cannot resolve this debate. To provide a more systematic answer, I recently completed a study of one type of gun control law-laws on concealed handguns, also known as "shall-issue" laws. Thirty-one states give their citizens the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness. My study, with David Mustard, a graduate student in economics at the University of Chicago, analyzed the FBI's crime statistics for all 3,054 American counties from 1977 to 1992. Our findings are dramatic. Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply Criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats.

The benefit of concealed handguns are not limited to just those who carry them or use them in self-defense. The very fact that these weapons are concealed keeps criminals uncertain as to whether a potential victim will be able to defend himself with lethal force. The possibility that anyone might be carrying a gun makes attacking everyone less attractive; unarmed citizens in effect "free-ride" on their pistol packing fellows. Our study further found that while some criminals avoid potentially violent crimes after concealed-handgun laws were passed, they do not necessarily give up the criminal life altogether. Some switch to crimes in which the rise of confronting an armed victim is much lower. Indeed, the downside of concealed-weapons laws is that while Violent crime rates fall, property offenses like larceny (e.g. stealing from unattended automobiles or vending machines) and auto theft rise. This is certainly a substitution that the country can live with.

Our study also provided some surprising information. While support for strict gun-control laws usually bas been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes. For example, in counties with populations of more than 200,000 people, concealed handgun laws produced an average drop in murder rates of more than 13%. The half of the counties with the highest rape rates saw that crime drop by more than 7%.

Concealed handguns also appear to help women more than men. Murder rates decline when either sex carries more guns, but the effect is especially pronounced when women are considered separately. An additional woman carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for women by about three to four times more than an additional armed man reduces the murder rate for men. Victims of violent crime are generally physically weaker than the criminals who prey on them. Allowing a woman to defend herself with a concealed handgun makes a larger difference in her ability to defend herself than the change created by providing a man with a handgun. Guns are the great equalizer between the weak and the vicious. At the Democratic convention, President Clinton played up his proposed expansion of the 1994 Brady Law, which by making it harder for men convicted of domestic violence to obtain guns is designed to reduce crime against women. Our study is the first to provide direct empirical evidence of the Brady Law's effect on crime rates and we found just the opposite result: The law's implementation is associated with more aggravated assaults and rapes. Mrs. Brady's exaggerated estimates of the number of felons denied access to guns are a poor measure of the law's impact on crime rates.

We also collected data on whether owners of concealed handguns are more likely to use them in committing violent crimes. The rarity of these incidents is reflected in Florida's statistics: More than 300,000 concealed- handgun licenses were issued between October 1, 1987 and December 31, 1945, but only five violent crimes involving permitted pistols were committed in this period. And none of these resulted in fatalities. That's of 1% misuse rate for permitted pistols in an eight year period or LESS than 1/1000 of 1% misuse rate per year.

What about minor disputes such as traffic accidents? Are legal owners of concealed handguns more likely to use them in such situations? In 31 states, some of which have had concealed weapons laws for decades, there is only one recorded incident (earlier this year in Texas) in which a concealed handgun, was used in a shooting following an accident. Even in that one case, a grand jury found that the shooting was in self-defense: The shooter was being beaten by the other driver.

And what about accidental deaths? The number of accidental handgun deaths each year is fewer than 200. Our estimates imply that if the states without "shall issue" laws were to adopt them, the increase in accidental handgun deaths would be at most nine more deaths per year. This is small indeed when compared to the at least 1,570 murders that would be avoided.


While no single study is likely to end the debate on concealed handguns, ours provides the first systematic national evidence. By contrast, the largest prior study examined only 170 cities within a single year. The nearly 50,000 observations in our data set allow us to control for a range of factors that have never been accounted for in any previous study of crime, let alone any previous gun-control study. Among other variables, our regressions control for arrest and conviction rates, prison sentences, changes in handgun laws such as waiting periods and the imposition of additional penalties for using a gun to commit a crime, income, poverty, unemployment and demographic changes. Preventing, law-abiding citizens from carrying handguns does not end violence, but merely makes them more vulnerable to attack. The very size and strength of our results should at least give pause to those who oppose concealed handguns. The opportunity to reduce the murder rate by simply relaxing a regulation ought to be difficult to ignore.

http://www.largo.org/Lott.html


Now people have been saying they want a 'sane' discussion, well, let's start here.
 
anti gun nuts are going to need diapers after this.

that said:

reasonable gun restrictions are in fact reasonable. STY will slay me now that citizens should own nukes.

or am i remembering that debate wrong?
 
anti gun nuts are going to need diapers after this.

that said:

reasonable gun restrictions are in fact reasonable. STY will slay me now that citizens should own nukes.

or am i remembering that debate wrong?
sorta wrong. I said that citizens should be able to own anything that the government could use against them. you wouldn't answer directly about nukes, so I said that if you think the government would nuke US Citizens, then citizens should own nukes.
 
sorta wrong. I said that citizens should be able to own anything that the government could use against them. you wouldn't answer directly about nukes, so I said that if you think the government would nuke US Citizens, then citizens should own nukes.

sorry if i didn't answer. i thought i did.

technically, the government could use any weapon in their arsenal against us. do i think the US government would nuke us? depends on who in charge of the buttons.
 
sorta wrong. I said that citizens should be able to own anything that the government could use against them. you wouldn't answer directly about nukes, so I said that if you think the government would nuke US Citizens, then citizens should own nukes.


I don't think it serves any purpose to go to the extreme...I would love to see the first politician run on the 'Nukes for everyone' platform....But being down to earth, I would think that background checked citizens should be able to own anything up to and including a full auto.
 
sorry if i didn't answer. i thought i did.
honestly, it may not have been you that didn't answer. jarod was involved in that debate as well as DY and neither of them answered it i think, so i don't want to point fingers at anyone.

technically, the government could use any weapon in their arsenal against us. do i think the US government would nuke us? depends on who in charge of the buttons.
technically i guess they could, but it would be political suicide if they did. it would be the one way for sure to get 90% of the population to rise up against them.
 
I don't think it serves any purpose to go to the extreme...I would love to see the first politician run on the 'Nukes for everyone' platform....But being down to earth, I would think that background checked citizens should be able to own anything up to and including a full auto.
I'm down with full autos, RPGs, and hand grenades, no background check. My philosophy is unless you've proven yourself a danger to the public, you have full and unlimited rights. If you've proven yourself a danger to the public, then you should remain in prison for life.
 
honestly, it may not have been you that didn't answer. jarod was involved in that debate as well as DY and neither of them answered it i think, so i don't want to point fingers at anyone.

technically i guess they could, but it would be political suicide if they did. it would be the one way for sure to get 90% of the population to rise up against them.

oh lord, you might have confused me with jarod? i will petition lord grind to kill me. :D

you're right about political suicide. but, if you're to the point of nuking your own citizens, i don't think you care about any political future. thus....if we use your "could" standard....then shouldn't citizens be allowed to own nukes?
 
We don't know his last name. He refuses to reveal it on his 'wisdom' blog. 'Ron' lists all kinds of accomplishments, none of which can be verified, of course. But in his blog, he makes a lot of unsourced claims. Claims that j-parrot swears by, 'cuz 'Ron' sez so.

All hail 'Ron'.

http://www.thewisdomjournal.com/Blog/about/

:rofl2:


You'll have to try and explain what the housing crash has to do with this topic you dumb bitch. Now get the fuck out of here unless you want to talk about the op.
 
oh lord, you might have confused me with jarod? i will petition lord grind to kill me. :D
don't do it man.

you're right about political suicide. but, if you're to the point of nuking your own citizens, i don't think you care about any political future. thus....if we use your "could" standard....then shouldn't citizens be allowed to own nukes?
I dont' think the gov, in any condition, would ever use nukes on american citizens, but if you think they would, then yes, we better own nukes.
 
You'll have to try and explain what the housing crash has to do with this topic you dumb bitch. Now get the fuck out of here unless you want to talk about the op.

Nope. I'll leave when I'm good and ready, parrot. Your credibility gap's on display with your allegiance to the words of 'Ron' on the other thread. That gap's pertinent to every single post you make on any other thread.

Go whine to the mods if you don't like it, crybaby.
 
anti gun nuts are going to need diapers after this.

that said:

reasonable gun restrictions are in fact reasonable. STY will slay me now that citizens should own nukes.

or am i remembering that debate wrong?

It was me that said that. Because A) it's a non-issue, and B) why not?
 
don't do it man.

I dont' think the gov, in any condition, would ever use nukes on american citizens, but if you think they would, then yes, we better own nukes.

growing up i believed many noble ideas about our government. i became a meter maid to defend those ideals and slay those who don't pay their parking meters. as i get closer to 40 (holy shatner) i see that our government is far from perfect and while i don't believe our government, as an entity, would point nukes at us, i also believed many other things in life would or would not happen and was wrong about those beliefs.
 
The guns owned by the ctizens in the 18th century were the same ones used by the US military at the time. They were state of the art. Whether they fire 60 rounds per minute or not, they were no less than what the best armed military infantryman carried.

WB: took your post from another thread because it fits here.

my response:

did the founders envision citizens owning nukes? say a tsar bomba?
 
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