what drives people to do this sort of thing
http://news.yahoo.com/jewish-summer...e-charged-175043433--abc-news-topstories.html
http://news.yahoo.com/jewish-summer...e-charged-175043433--abc-news-topstories.html
terrorism at jewish camp in pa
- Thread starter Don Quixote
- Start date
Some people are mean. Some people are somewhat unhinged and some people are both. Mostly, some feel entitled to do what they wish to whom they wish with no consequences. There will always be bad people in this old world.
Althea
Althea told me...
A number of things.
Being young moronic rednecks has a lot to do with it.
But, these camps are hated by the locals. It illustrates all that is wrong with the systems we have in place to take care of the needy.
This group of ultra religious Jews takes welfare fraud to new levels.
Likewise, virtually all of these 'camps' are all off the tax rolls, creating a higher tax burden for those who are already living in a depressed area.
They flood the area for app 2 1/2 months, creating havoc in the grocery stores. They are horrible drivers, which makes for some of the highest auto insurance rates in the country.
What these morons did, was to act on the hatred and vitriol that occurs every summer. The charges will eventually be reduced to fit the actual crime. These idiots should pay dearly.
Please explain...
Althea
Althea told me...
Whereas I don't condone the behavior of those kids, the victims are a disgusting group. As previously mentioned, these idiotic kids ought to be punished, and punished severely.
That said, if you're unlucky enough to have to coexist with this group, you'd understand the ill feelings toward them. It doesn't excuse the kids' behavior, though.
This area is in the same general region as the camp in Pa, even though it's in NY.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York
This gives a good general idea of the demographic. I don't use Wiki, but this is pretty accurate for the purpose of this discussion.
The ultra religious don't register marriages in the state. By doing this, they all qualify for the full boat when it comes to Welfare/Foodstamps, etc. All women are considered single parents.
They are required to have between 5-10 children. All marriages are arranged by the rabbi.
Now, this doesn't mean that many individuals aren't genuinely nice people.
They're just a huge burden on society, and when they invade a region for the summer, the locals hate them.
Unless you have to deal with them, you can't truly know how they affect a region.
" There are three religious tenets that drive our growth: our women don't use birth control, they get married young and after they get married, they stay in Kiryas Joel and start a family. Our growth comes simply from the fact that our families have a lot of babies, and we need to build homes to respond to the needs of our community. . . . As each successive generation of women becomes old enough to have children, the number of women of child-bearing age grows exponentially. The number of women who marry each year is the approximate number of new homes needed. [6] ”
Sounds like any number of fundamentalist christians.
I guess I don' t understand what they do to justify ppl saying "I'm going to kill you fucking jews!"
Do you have a link for the camp?
Did you catch this part of the article:
"The median income for a household in the village was $15,138, and the median income for a family was $15,372. Males had a median income of $25,043 versus $16,364 for females. The per capita income for the village was $4,355. About 61.7% of families and 62.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 63.9% of those under age 18 and 50.5% of those age 65 or over.
According 2008 census figures, the village has the highest poverty rate in the nation, and the largest percentage of residents who receive food stamps. More than five-eighths of Kiryas Joel residents live below the federal poverty line and more than 40 percent receive food stamps, according to the American Community Survey, a U.S. Census Bureau study of every place in the country with 20,000 residents or more.[3] A 2011 New York Times report noted that, despite the town's very high statistical poverty rates, "It has no slums or homeless people. No one who lives there is shabbily dressed or has to go hungry. Crime is virtually nonexistent."[20]"
Interesting...thanks for posting it.
"The median income for a household in the village was $15,138, and the median income for a family was $15,372. Males had a median income of $25,043 versus $16,364 for females. The per capita income for the village was $4,355. About 61.7% of families and 62.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 63.9% of those under age 18 and 50.5% of those age 65 or over.
According 2008 census figures, the village has the highest poverty rate in the nation, and the largest percentage of residents who receive food stamps. More than five-eighths of Kiryas Joel residents live below the federal poverty line and more than 40 percent receive food stamps, according to the American Community Survey, a U.S. Census Bureau study of every place in the country with 20,000 residents or more.[3] A 2011 New York Times report noted that, despite the town's very high statistical poverty rates, "It has no slums or homeless people. No one who lives there is shabbily dressed or has to go hungry. Crime is virtually nonexistent."[20]"
Interesting...thanks for posting it.
they have found a way to live their lifestyle at the expense of government
i wonder how long they will be able to continue before they get cracked down on or overflow their available living area and run out of space
I'm still not buying it. It appears that the criticisms against this group are the same as the misconceptions about other poor people.
Althea
Althea told me...
They won't get cracked down on. As the Wiki article mentions, they tend to vote the way the rabbi tells them to. As a result, the politicians pander to them, with the promise of the bloc vote as repayment.
On his way out of the White House, Clinton pardoned 4 Rabbis who were jailed for misusing several million in govt. appropriated funds.
Hillary received the bloc vote in exchange.
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Justice-Dept-won-t-file-charges-in-Clinton-2806125.php
Whereas the discussion isn't a comfortable one, this is a huge issue for those involved.
Althea
Althea told me...
Not true.
One must ask why they are poor? Yes, it is very similar to the issues we've seen in inner cities, where the poor were having large families in order to stay on welfare.
However, the income figures that were posted don't tell the whole story. You might want to study the diamond industry in NYC, and see who runs it.
More recently, the electronics/photo industry as well. There is plenty of cash in this community....it just isn't reported.
Kiryas Joel is a closed community, and it does appear to be a slum. But that's just one closed community. There are thousands of families that don't reside there.
Until you shop in a supermarket in the summer, and watch a family who just paid for groceries with foodstamps return to their new $40,000 SUV, you won't believe what I tell you.
None of this excuses what the kids did. They should, and will be punished.
I'm just shining a little light on what it is that makes anyone act in such a manner.
Don't take my word for it.
It's a tough subject.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/21/n...cs-for-the-hasidim.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
Althea
Althea told me...
Agreed, but the issue here is the burden on society. Nobody should be persecuted for their beliefs. For their actions? That's a different story.
Nothing justifies that. Those kids probably hear it at the dinner table. Ironic, is the fact that most 'normal' jews hate this group too.
You can find it on Google. I searched it to find out their tax exempt status, but I honestly didn't want to spend the time necessary just to see if they were tax exempt.
As far as looking like a slum, didn't the other link say:
Something seems to be done right...
Again, and perhaps I'm wrong...that just sounds like a prejudiced stereotype.
I wonder what their source of income is
however, no hunger, everyone has a home and food and clothing
practically no crime
all they have to put up with is a theocracy
too bad that it is propped up by government money
sounds a bit like the amish except that the amish believe in being self sustaining
Althea
Althea told me...
prej·u·dice/ˈprejədəs/
Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience
Althea said:
While I have empathy for your situation, again...the story of welfare Cadillacs is decades old. You don't know how the SUV was bought, don't know what year it is, how much it is, or who it belonged to.
You merely assumed.
They probably got a riled up after listening to old Louie Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson speeches.....
Althea
Althea told me...
Well, the question was posed in the OP as to how anyone could act in such a way.
Now I've offered some insight as to what goes on in certain communities. I watched a few videos of the camp in question, and I don't believe they're Hasidic. I may be wrong, but they seem to be orthodox.
Within Judaism, there are many sects. The Hasidics, or 'ultra orthodox', don't even recognize the orthodox as being 'jewish enough'.
Typically, many of the ultra orthodox camps don't have activities .....they just study the Torah all day. Some have more relaxed programs.
To the lay person, they're 'all alike', and we see the kind of actions like the one in the OP.
If you are truly interested, you can delve deeper into the disgusting habits of those who take welfare fraud to new levels. This thread deals with an interesting issue, though...the clashes between the locals, and those who vacation in the mts.
Normally, regions that depend on tourism welcome the tourists with open arms. It's the only time of the year they can make money. With these groups, there is no upside, and nothing but a hassle during the vacation months. As such, you see the tension that was illustrated in the OP.
Again...the question was....'What drives people to do this sort of thing?'