Admit it Dems: Ryan scares the shit out of you

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

He was free to eliminate the portions of the Affordable Care Act that he didn't like. He kept the cuts and got rid of everything else.

No sir, he most certainly IS NOT "free to eliminate" funding appropriated in another bill, unless he is proposing to repeal that bill itself. He had to keep the cuts proposed in ACA because that was the law, that's what Congress passed, and Senator Ryan doesn't have Constitutional authority to eliminate that, when proposing a plan to save Medicare... something completely different than repealing Obamacare. If you can't wrap your pinhead mind around how government works, you need to go study some more and leave the discussion here for the people who have been educated about the process.

You make no sense whatsoever. Ryan's plan becomes more expensive by $700 billion if the Affordable Care Act is repealed. How does increasing Medicare spending by $700 billion make the plan an even better idea if the whole purpose of the plan is to lower Medicare costs?

ACA will remove $700 billion from the Medicare kitty.... "the cuts" you referred to previously, which you claim Ryan left in his proposal, which he had to leave in because they are the law of the land, according to the ACA. Are you clear so far... $700 billion is coming out of Medicare to help pay for Obamacare. If Romney is elected and repeals Obamacare, that is $700 billion that WON'T come out of Medicare, and makes Ryan's plan (which doesn't include this) even better! That's $700 billion more than we expected, and which can go into shoring up Medicare, along with Ryan's plan.

What doesn't make sense?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The Ryan-Wyden Plan is different from what Ryan put in his budget that passed the House that Romney said he would sign if it reached his desk as president. Wyden voted against the Ryan budget.

You need fresher talking points, SF.

Dear Dung... We are talking about the most recent version of what Ryan and Wyden were working on. You see, their first proposal had a lot of criticisms, like adults they took those criticisms to heart and tried to address as many as they could. Thus, the improved version of their plan. I know you want to stick to the first version because that is the talking point your masters dictated to you, but here in the real world, the grown ups have improved their plan for medicare. It is the one that Ryan is promoting today. It is the one that Romney will likely put forth... though he may tweak it further (we shall see).

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

To whcih I have to retort "bullshit" and "you can't bullshit a bullshitter." My family has been in the health care industry for far to long to believe your party line bullshit. Pricing support shits on seniors. What's to protect seniors from being denied coverage by insurance companies under the Ryan plan? Nothing. What's to protect seniors from insurance companies dramatically raising premium prices on seniors cause they represent higher risk under the Ryan plan? Nothing. Who picks up the additional cost if Ryans free market relgious assumptions don't pan out? Seniors and their families do. That's who.

These are fucking old ideas SF! They were first floated out in the 50's before medicare when the high cost of insurance for seniors had a significant impact on families, economically, who had to pick up the cost for aging and sick parents. Premium support was argued back in the 50's before medicare even became law and was shot down for that very reason. That institutional controls did not exist that would prevent the business community from exploiting seniors.

Now you may trust WallStreet investment bankers to look after your parents health but those of us who live in a reality based world know what they'll really be looking after. THEMSELVES!!!

What the fuck are you rambling about? Where are you getting that something in health care is going to be turned over to Wall Street???

Again you demonstrate that you know absolutely nothing about the proposal by Wyden and Ryan. Try reading it rather than spouting off bullshit.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

What SF is linking to now is the changed plan. Which while terrible enough and on its own will devastate the elderly, is still only a Trojan horse for the plan Ryan has spent his entire career advocating for - ending Medicare, period. It would be replaced with a voucher which in real life would be nearly useless.

Tell us, how will this 'devastate' the elderly? It doesn't change one thing for those 55+. Not one thing. You, like Mutt, are spouting talking points. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Sf is hoping you don't know the background on Ryan, and I think you do, but for anyone here who doesn't.

The fact is that Ryan is so psychopathically radical that today's radically right off the cliff republican party balked at real goal.

But he's going to run on it. Why? Because the Obama campaign is going to force him to. Too bad.

LMAO... so emo... such bullshit... did your masters tell you that if you call Ryan 'psycho' enough times that it will make it true? Again... if Ryan is so radical... how does he keep getting elected in a balanced district???

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Exactly. And this is Ryan's liberal Medicare plan. It's not even his end goal.

This would murder more people than all of our wars put together if it went on long enough. But dont' worry - fertilized eggs would be safe!

More hysterics... yeah, the left is most definitely scared of Ryan.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

They own the one that passed the house. Too bad who doesn't like it. They passed it, they wanted to "shove it down our throats" it's this psychopath's end goal, and that's what they're going to have to defend. Let's see how the American people like it.

It doesn't matter how many tantrums SF throws on this board.

lol... you are the one throwing tantrums Darla.. hence all the 'he be a psycho' bullshit you keep tossing out.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yes, after you edited it!!

Dear Tommy... do try to keep up... I deliberately did NOT include the link when I first posted. I wanted to see how bad the left would flip out before saying it was from the onion. The URL would have given it away rather quickly. As it was, you pointed it out right away, so I went back and linked it up. I hope you are able to comprehend this. Try not to flip out like the left wing nuts here have been doing.

 

[Howey]

Your dishonesty is amazing. I mean, I've come to accept a certain level of dishonesty from Republicans, but this is just flat out lying.

What do you expect from a disillusioned troll who claims to have SIX MILLION DOLLARS STASHED AWAY IN A GERMAN BANK?

I'm willing to wager Dicksee is over 55 years of age and sitting on his fat ass at home drawing his SSI check for insanity blabbering away on here before the meds kick in and doesn't give a fuck what inheritance his inbred grandchildren get.

 

[Bonestorm]

Dear Dung... We are talking about the most recent version of what Ryan and Wyden were working on. You see, their first proposal had a lot of criticisms, like adults they took those criticisms to heart and tried to address as many as they could. Thus, the improved version of their plan. I know you want to stick to the first version because that is the talking point your masters dictated to you, but here in the real world, the grown ups have improved their plan for medicare. It is the one that Ryan is promoting today. It is the one that Romney will likely put forth... though he may tweak it further (we shall see).

You're completely full of shit, SF. The Ryan-Wyden Plan was put out in December 2011. The Ryan 2013 budget proposal was submitted in March 2012 and passed in the same month.

 

[Haiku]

Basically, the ACA slows the growth of Medicare spending by lowering payments to health care providers and eliminates (I believe) some Medicare Advantage spending.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/14/1120056/-It-Ain-t-the-Same-700-Billion

The Republicans think they have found the way to sanitize the Ryan budget, just caw about how Obama's ACA cuts 700 billion dollars from Medicare and frame him as the one who destroyed Grandma's healthcare. This should play big in Florida, right? Except for several important facts revealed in a hardly noticed post by Obama Amabo here.

1. Name one benefit that has been cut! Just ONE! You can't, because NO benefits HAVE been cut. Every benefit that was previously covered by Medicare is still covered! In fact:

2. Under Obamacare, there is an additional benefit in that the "donut hole", where medication costs per patient that fell between minimal amounts and very large amounts, costs that Medicare patients previously had to pay, has been substantially closed. This is an additional benefit to Medicare recipients with NO reduction in other benefits!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...charge-that-Obamacare-Cuts-700B-from-Medicare
Well, isn't that going to greatly increase the costs of Medicare?

3. No. That $700 billion in "cuts" that Republicans are talking about? Those are cuts in COST, not benefits! It's expected that large reductions in cost will result from Medicare recipients having better coverage and being healthier, and from switching the way Medicare pays the bills so that, instead of fee-for-service that provides incentives for medical providers to do the maximum number of procedures, whether necessary and safe or not, will instead provide them with the incentive of keeping their patients healthier and needing fewer risky, uncomfortable and expensive procedures.

How much this new approach will reduce Medicare costs, no one knows for sure. But this new approach has been tested in private health insurance and it seems to work. And apparently the GOP thinks it will work because Paul Ryan includes a savings of $700 billion in his budget based on these new approaches!

So...

The Republicans are, as we know, outright liars and masters of quoting out of context, but they are also skilled at "lying by omission." They tell a part of the truth but not all, so a false impression is given. Their riff on the 700 billion is a perfect example of this.

Truly, the ACA has cuts of that size, but to COSTS, and the money saved would go toward helping people to get insurance. Unmentioned is the fact that the Ryan plan also has about 700 bilion in cuts to Medicare, but they are cuts to BENEFITS, and the money would fall into the black hole called "tax cuts for the 1%."

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You're completely full of shit, SF. The Ryan-Wyden Plan was put out in December 2011. The Ryan 2013 budget proposal was submitted in March 2012 and passed in the same month.

Golly-gee.. 2013 budget proposal doesn't sound anything like a plan to reform Medicare... it sounds more like it might be a proposal for a general budget or something, bu I'm just guessing.

 

[Bonestorm]

No sir, he most certainly IS NOT "free to eliminate" funding appropriated in another bill, unless he is proposing to repeal that bill itself. He had to keep the cuts proposed in ACA because that was the law, that's what Congress passed, and Senator Ryan doesn't have Constitutional authority to eliminate that, when proposing a plan to save Medicare... something completely different than repealing Obamacare. If you can't wrap your pinhead mind around how government works, you need to go study some more and leave the discussion here for the people who have been educated about the process.

This is awesome. Completely fucked, but totally awesome.

ACA will remove $700 billion from the Medicare kitty.... "the cuts" you referred to previously, which you claim Ryan left in his proposal, which he had to leave in because they are the law of the land, according to the ACA. Are you clear so far... $700 billion is coming out of Medicare to help pay for Obamacare. If Romney is elected and repeals Obamacare, that is $700 billion that WON'T come out of Medicare, and makes Ryan's plan (which doesn't include this) even better! That's $700 billion more than we expected, and which can go into shoring up Medicare, along with Ryan's plan.

What doesn't make sense?

The ACA reduces Medicare spending by $700 billion. If the ACA is repealed, Medicare costs $700 billion more. Ryan's plan relies on the $700 billion reduction in Medicare spending. Without that reduction in spending, his plan costs $700 billion more over the first 10 years, which isn't a promising start for a plan designed to reduce Medicare spending.

 

[Haiku]

Tell us, how will this 'devastate' the elderly? It doesn't change one thing for those 55+. Not one thing. You, like Mutt, are spouting talking points. You have no idea what you are talking about.



LMAO... so emo... such bullshit... did your masters tell you that if you call Ryan 'psycho' enough times that it will make it true? Again... if Ryan is so radical... how does he keep getting elected in a balanced district???

Ryans changes would defund SS, Medicare and Medicaid for everyone...to say otherwise is disingenuous. It's predicated on the lie that SS is bankrupt. It's a lie. These programs are not in trouble as has been demonstrated numerous times here.

 

[Bonestorm]

Golly-gee.. 2013 budget proposal doesn't sound anything like a plan to reform Medicare... it sounds more like it might be a proposal for a general budget or something, bu I'm just guessing.

Ignorance and arrogance are not a good combo, Dix. You don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

 

[Howey]

Dear Tommy... do try to keep up... I deliberately did NOT include the link when I first posted. I wanted to see how bad the left would flip out before saying it was from the onion. The URL would have given it away rather quickly. As it was, you pointed it out right away, so I went back and linked it up. I hope you are able to comprehend this. Try not to flip out like the left wing nuts here have been doing.

Aha! So you again admit to plagarism!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The ACA reduces Medicare spending by $700 billion.

Does not. It reduces FUNDING by $700 billion. There is your flaw.

 

[Bonestorm]

Does not. It reduces FUNDING by $700 billion. There is your flaw.

Nope.

 

[Howey]

Does not. It reduces FUNDING by $700 billion. There is your flaw.

The $700 million is SAVINGS as a result of reducing fraud, etc....

 

[apple0154]

Exactly! That's why we can't vote for Democrats who will continue to ignore the problems with Medicare and Social Security while they pilfer their funding to pay for their health care debacle. Instead, we need to vote for the people who have proposed a sensible plan for saving Medicare and Social Security, and ensuring it will be around for generations to come.

A one payer plan would make Medicare redundant. And also Medicaid. That is Obama's plan. Combine it all in a one payer plan. Whether you're 8 or 80, poor or wealthy, you receive the necessary medical treatment. A one sentence medical plan.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Ignorance and arrogance are not a good combo, Dix. You don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Yeah, and apparently you can't refute any of my points or dispute the facts presented, so what does that make you?

Ryan's 2013 budget proposal is not Ryan's proposal for Medicare reform... they are two entirely different pieces of legislation... completely different committees and debates... they have very little to do with one another, since Medicare is largely a state sponsored program, and doesn't have much to do with the general budget of the federal government. What you have done, is try to construct a Frankenstein Strawman by taking part of this bill and that bill, and molding them around your narrative. You have FAILED Dr. FrankenTurd!