Ryan: Don't interfere with legalized medical pot

blackascoal said:
You can ignore whatever pleases you .. doesn't change a thing.

Start from here .. you don't speak for the American people .. consistent broad-based polling does.

Not only does a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS support legalized marijuana .. the issue of marijuana legalization is a WINNING issue for politicians.

And yes, I will keep ignoring the false information that you spew.
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No, if what you were saying was true, we'd see national marijuana legalization in the DNC platform. We don't. I never claimed to speak for the American people, and "broad based polling" doesn't either, unless it's the kind of polling done at the ballot box on election day. The fact is, legalizing weed is popular among young urban dwellers, and not as popular among others. It is very unpopular among evangelicals and social conservatives. It is not only unpopular, but untenable to Federalists and Constitutional Republicans who seek to remove Federal government from such regulation. And if it can be any MORE unpopular to a group, it's Liberal Socialist Democrats who want a national health care system. How are you going to pay for health care related respiratory problems caused from ingestion of smoke into the lungs from pot? And yes, it does lead to respiratory illness, regardless of what you claim. Smoke in the lungs damages the lung tissue and chronic use leads to lungs losing 'elasticity' and becoming ineffective at delivering oxygen to the brain and other organs. So, it's a mild health risk, but when the government is responsible for health, this is too much of a risk for them to cover.

But again, a 'majority' of Americans don't believe in legalization, or pot would be legal and/or both parties would be pandering for their support by adopting pro-pot planks in the platform. (Say that three times real fast!) The reason they aren't is because well over half the country wouldn't vote for them, and their opponents would mop the floor. Yes, in major metro areas and liberal states, pot is very popular, and could probably pass legalization for medical use, IF the Feds weren't standing in the way of that. It's more of a reason to support Federalist politicians who want to get the Federal government out of our lives, than to support pandering Democrats who don't mean what they 'infer' through their rhetoric. Those people have absolutely NO intention of legalizing pot, they already know they can't do it, but they are convinced they can fool stupid people into believing them one more time.
 
blackascoal said:
Marijuana legislation is a long ass way from terrorism, murder, and oppression of human beings.

No, I do not believe that majority rule alone is a valid reason for legislation, but in this case, it makes very good sense for a whole lot of reasons .. not the least of which is the astronomical cost of enforcement, AND, our prisons are filled with non-violent criminals, AND, alcohol is much more harmful than weed.

This is no different than prohibition.
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Hold on, let's be completely objective and honest here. Local law enforcement and city/county/state courts, are making a small fortune in fines, property confiscation, and assorted court fees associated with prosecuting these cases. A local sheriff in these parts, recently ran on the fact that he had pumped over $7 million into the county sheriff's budget over the past 5 years, through drug busts. He argued that his opponent would effectively cost the taxpayers over $1.25 million per year, to replace what he had been doing as sheriff. Lawyers, drug rehab clinics, the lady who takes your piss cup... all these people have jobs that would become obsolete if this were legal. So it's fine to argue that cost of enforcement or prison crowding is an issue, but it cuts both ways.
 
Damocles said:
That's because it is prohibition. We have an urge to continuously repeat stupid ideas in the US. Prohibition didn't work, so we try it again every 50 years or so and take longer each time to comprehend what a stupid idea it is to create a black market for stuff that makes people feel good.

If the idea is to keep it away from kids, it is far more difficult to get beer underage than it is to get cocaine. Nobody is checking your ID when you buy cocaine.
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Add in that they have said that it will make it harder for kids to get it; because it will be REGULATED by the "Government".

I guess no one will be growing their own and selling it, to undercut what the "Government" intends to sell it for.

They truly don't have a clue how MJ affects the youth of this country.
I've talked to hundreds of kids, that have been adjudicated, and all most everyone of them smoked MJ.
They dropped out of school; because it was hard to learn when they were high.
They committed crimes, so they could pay for MJ.
They sold MJ, so they would have money for their own MJ.

The number of people making alcohol at home, no way compares to the numbers growing MJ.
 
Dixie said:
Hold on, let's be completely objective and honest here. Local law enforcement and city/county/state courts, are making a small fortune in fines, property confiscation, and assorted court fees associated with prosecuting these cases. A local sheriff in these parts, recently ran on the fact that he had pumped over $7 million into the county sheriff's budget over the past 5 years, through drug busts. He argued that his opponent would effectively cost the taxpayers over $1.25 million per year, to replace what he had been doing as sheriff. Lawyers, drug rehab clinics, the lady who takes your piss cup... all these people have jobs that would become obsolete if this were legal. So it's fine to argue that cost of enforcement or prison crowding is an issue, but it cuts both ways.
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Sure, let's be objective and honest.

Marijuana Law Enforcement Costs More than $7 Billion a Year
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/379/report1.shtml

Results of America's Drug War

prohibition-costs-graph.gif


The Lewin Group identifies $22.5 billion of expenses for prisons and court costs for drug-related charges as well as for DEA and other 'supply reduction' programs (spending in these areas has greatly increased in the years since this study.) They also list $9.1 billion for "police protection." What is meant by this isn't entirely clear; presumably much of this expense stems from the constant pursuit of drug offenders.
http://thedea.org/itsresults.html

Wasting billions on drug law enforcement

Whilst accurate figures are hard to come by, global spending on drug law enforcement certainly exceeds $100 billion each year. Given current economic conditions it is more important than ever that spending is effective and not a waste of taxpayer money.

However, the huge investments in enforcement have consistently delivered the opposite of their stated goals – to reduce drug production, supply and use. Instead they have created a vast criminal market. This in turn has substantial social and economic costs, through crime and ill health, far exceeding even the billions in enforcement spending.

There are huge opportunity costs to wasteful expenditure on this scale. As drug enforcement budgets continue to grow, other areas are being starved of funds, and cuts in government budgets are hitting public services and support for the needy.

Despite the appalling track record of failure, the level of value-for-money scrutiny applied to drug enforcement spending has been almost zero, at both national and international levels. At a time of global economic crisis, after literally trillions wasted over the last half-century, it is time to meaningfully count the real economic costs of the war on drugs.
http://www.countthecosts.org/seven-costs/wasting-billions-drug-law-enforcement

Numbers Tell of Failure in Drug War
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/b...gs-start-with-the-numbers.html?pagewanted=all

Drug abuse costs the United States economy hundreds of billions of dollars in increased health care costs, crime, and lost productivity
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...my-hundreds-billions-dollars-in-increased-hea

U.S. drug war has met none of its goals

After 40 years and $1 trillion, drug use is rampant and violence pervasive
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37134751/ns/us_news-security/t/us-drug-war-has-met-none-its-goals/

U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html?pagewanted=all

300px-Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif



Less than 5% of the worlds population with almost 25% of all the prisoners in the world.
 
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I thought you were going to be objective, but you weren't objective at all. You presented a bunch of information on how much enforcement costs, and how much it costs to take care of prisoners, etc. It's as if you have mistakenly read my post to be an argument or confrontation to these points you've already made, and that was not what my intention was. I already agreed with you on these things, it does cost a lot of money to enforce and prosecute these cases, I never said it didn't. But you have to understand, while it may cost $7 billion to enforce marijuana laws, the value of the property seized by law enforcement and the preliminary fines and court costs, amount to much more than $7 billion. You are only looking at what it costs, I am trying to get you to understand, there is also what it brings in, which is nothing to sneeze at. I'm not arguing against you, I am agreeing with you, but I am introducing an aspect you haven't considered. Yeah, it does cost money to go after pot heads, but these local-yokels are making millions every year in property they seize (and then auction). It's one great big law enforcement cash cow, it funds entire police departments, it pays thousands of lawyers, it covers the costs of thousands of courts. I'm not refuting your point that it costs money to prosecute, I am telling you that there is an aspect you've not considered, they make money doing this... lots and lots of money. Granted, the prisons are now full and we have a problem with over-crowding, but the local drug enforcement unit doesn't really give two shits, that's not their problem. They've got their eye on new night vision equipment like the military uses, it's cool, they can see pot heads in the dark! How are they supposed to buy that if you cut off their money supply? The problem here is, you think you are fighting a dragon, but you are fighting a seven-headed beast.
 
Dixie said:
I thought you were going to be objective, but you weren't objective at all. You presented a bunch of information on how much enforcement costs, and how much it costs to take care of prisoners, etc. It's as if you have mistakenly read my post to be an argument or confrontation to these points you've already made, and that was not what my intention was. I already agreed with you on these things, it does cost a lot of money to enforce and prosecute these cases, I never said it didn't. But you have to understand, while it may cost $7 billion to enforce marijuana laws, the value of the property seized by law enforcement and the preliminary fines and court costs, amount to much more than $7 billion. You are only looking at what it costs, I am trying to get you to understand, there is also what it brings in, which is nothing to sneeze at. I'm not arguing against you, I am agreeing with you, but I am introducing an aspect you haven't considered. Yeah, it does cost money to go after pot heads, but these local-yokels are making millions every year in property they seize (and then auction). It's one great big law enforcement cash cow, it funds entire police departments, it pays thousands of lawyers, it covers the costs of thousands of courts. I'm not refuting your point that it costs money to prosecute, I am telling you that there is an aspect you've not considered, they make money doing this... lots and lots of money. Granted, the prisons are now full and we have a problem with over-crowding, but the local drug enforcement unit doesn't really give two shits, that's not their problem. They've got their eye on new night vision equipment like the military uses, it's cool, they can see pot heads in the dark! How are they supposed to buy that if you cut off their money supply? The problem here is, you think you are fighting a dragon, but you are fighting a seven-headed beast.
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You want to talk about costs .. but you don't want to talk about costs.

:rofl2:

Just as I knew was the case. :0)

You presume yourself to be an intellectual .. but you aren't.

Is the information I posted germaine to the issue we're discussing? Absolutely it is .. but again you run.

Intellectuals don't run.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
This doesn't explain why you find Dr. Roman Mosai, a "good decent doctor".
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quickest way to explain -look at your post on Moyer - that's a "croaker" ( pill pusher).

Mosai gave you a thorough exam, wound not prescrib any more then he though the time it too to 'heal', never gave a refill on an Rx.

Hi sin ws being in the wron place at the wrong time when the DEA was unleashed by Gov. Scott's co-operaton.

We did need a database - we also need walk in clinics -his was a walk in clinic -i saw mothers with children and all ages.
H e also took appointments. It wasn't a "pill mil" . none of these features are characteristic of such.
 
I thought both BAC and DIXIE made excellent points -DIXIE about the reasons for confiscation, BAC about the costs of incarceration/ prosecution.
 
annata said:
I thought both BAC and DIXIE made excellent points -DIXIE about the reasons for confiscation, BAC about the costs of incarceration/ prosecution.
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How are you just gonna walk into the niddle of a gunfight waving a white flag?

Dixie and I are having a gunfight .. we don't want to hear no logic.

:0) .. just kiddin'

 
blackascoal said:
You want to talk about costs .. but you don't want to talk about costs.

:rofl2:

Just as I knew was the case. :0)

You presume yourself to be an intellectual .. but you aren't.

Is the information I posted germaine to the issue we're discussing? Absolutely it is .. but again you run.

Intellectuals don't run.
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No, you are a hard head who thinks everything I say to you is a challenge and confrontation and you have to argue with me about it. I understand your point about the cost of enforcement, etc. I agree with that, I am not arguing your point or contradicting it in any way. I am introducing a completely new aspect to the discussion, and you want to remain focused only on the aspect you have advanced, and that's fine, but you are the one who is being closed-minded and not hearing what I have to say. Agreeing with you is not running away, it is agreeing with you. If anyone is running away, it is you, and you are running away from the fact that while there is cost in enforcing marijuana laws, there is also a great deal of profit realized from it. Go dig up the information on the value of the property seized and how much courts and lawyers have made handling the cases, and you'll find this amount is considerably more than the cost of enforcement. If we're going to be objective about this, we need to be objective and look at all aspects, and this is one of the aspects. Local and state law enforcement is making a small fortune on property seizures, fines, and court costs. The cost of enforcement is more than paid for, they are realizing huge profits, funding the entire department and in some cases, the entire police force, with the money and property they confiscate. To ignore that aspect, is to ignore a rather glaring part of the problem.
 
enough said:
Ryan: Don't interfere with legalized medical pot

http://news.yahoo.com/ryan-dont-interfere-legalized-medical-pot-025634169--election.html

i hope this is a sign of things to come with the gop. now...if only romney would take up this stance. i find it interesting how ryan is more "radical" than obama on this.

what now dude?
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Obama showed plenty of support for state legalized med marijuana, yet continually enforces federal laws on it by raiding legalized dispensaries. So I ask, why should I trust Ryan or any other politician?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
Obama showed plenty of support for state legalized med marijuana, yet continually enforces federal laws on it by raiding legalized dispensaries. So I ask, why should I trust Ryan or any other politician?
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This one guy lied to me so why should I trust anyone?

STY I have to ask, are you a teenage high school girl?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
Obama showed plenty of support for state legalized med marijuana, yet continually enforces federal laws on it by raiding legalized dispensaries. So I ask, why should I trust Ryan or any other politician?
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So you're going to judge Ryan and Republicans based on what Obama and Democrats have done? How does that even make rational sense?

Look... Here's the situation... Ryan has articulated a very important distinction between his party and the democrats, and it's a distinction I believe the GOP should drive home. It's the difference between a Federalist and Statist government. Ryan and the GOP favor Federalist policies, where the states decide these issues for themselves at the ballot box. Obama and the Democrats favor Statist government, where the Feds decide these issues for you, and there is nothing much you can do about it. Neither party is going to adopt a pro-legalization platform, that isn't going to ever happen in America. But Liberals are being completely duped by democrats who spout rhetoric and gesture as if they support such things, when the reality is, that's the last thing they intend to do. Republicans don't run around telling you they are going to make pot legal to get your vote, that's the difference.

Now from the perspective of a pot head who just wants to burn one in peace and be left alone, the party you want to support are the Federalist republicans, who believe the state should deal with this and not the Feds. Because, when that is the case, your state can decide it's no biggie and leave you to hell alone. As long as the Feds are in charge of this, forget about it, you'll never get to smoke your joint in peace.
 
Disillusioned said:
This one guy lied to me so why should I trust anyone?

STY I have to ask, are you a teenage high school girl?
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if you have to ask, you haven't been paying attention. no surprise, it is just a message board and it's relevancy is trivial compared to real world dealings, however, if you think i'm stating that Obama is the only politician that has lied to us, you're sorely mistaken. What I find incredulous is that ANYONE would willingly believe a politicians bullshit after what we've dealt with the last 40 years.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
if you have to ask, you haven't been paying attention. no surprise, it is just a message board and it's relevancy is trivial compared to real world dealings, however, if you think i'm stating that Obama is the only politician that has lied to us, you're sorely mistaken. What I find incredulous is that ANYONE would willingly believe a politicians bullshit after what we've dealt with the last 40 years.
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I'm attacking your reasoning not your conclusion.
 
Dixie said:
No, you are a hard head who thinks everything I say to you is a challenge and confrontation and you have to argue with me about it. I understand your point about the cost of enforcement, etc. I agree with that, I am not arguing your point or contradicting it in any way. I am introducing a completely new aspect to the discussion, and you want to remain focused only on the aspect you have advanced, and that's fine, but you are the one who is being closed-minded and not hearing what I have to say. Agreeing with you is not running away, it is agreeing with you. If anyone is running away, it is you, and you are running away from the fact that while there is cost in enforcing marijuana laws, there is also a great deal of profit realized from it. Go dig up the information on the value of the property seized and how much courts and lawyers have made handling the cases, and you'll find this amount is considerably more than the cost of enforcement. If we're going to be objective about this, we need to be objective and look at all aspects, and this is one of the aspects. Local and state law enforcement is making a small fortune on property seizures, fines, and court costs. The cost of enforcement is more than paid for, they are realizing huge profits, funding the entire department and in some cases, the entire police force, with the money and property they confiscate. To ignore that aspect, is to ignore a rather glaring part of the problem.
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Crime PERIOD is big business for the American legal system. It necessitates police, judges, courts, lawyers, and all the crap in between

But if you think that all the costs of this circus come from drug busts then once again, you're wrong.

If you think that taxpayers aren't stuck with the bill, you're wrong.

If you think all the costs to society are found in a balance sheet, you're wrong.

Feel free to think whatever you want .. but the truth of America's failed war on drugs and its costs to this society are well known
 
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