QE 3: It's About Time

Not particularly, no. Oil prices are but one of many factors.

The price of oil goes to the heart of our economy. Everything we make, transport etc... involves oil to a degree. The more transportation costs, the less money we each have to spend on other things. It is a major factor. We cannot sustain high oil prices long term. Jacking them up from already high rates is not a good idea.

Keeping long term rates low doesn't particularly help the economy at this point, but raising them would harm the economy.

The first part is absolutely correct. It doesn't help. No one is talking about raising them.

I don't think the big announcement today had much to do with long term rates except to the extent that the FED made clear that it isn't likely to increase them until mid-2015.

Wrong, it had everything to do with long term rates. The fed is once again buying on the long end of the curve in an effort to keep long term rates down. They stated as well their intention to keep short term rates near zero until 2015 (which I think is what you meant to say)

Basically, the FED signaled that it isn't going to increase rates any time soon and set market expectations for how it will react to a growing economy. The rest of the questions are irrelevant. The big announcement was QE3.

No, the Fed signaled that it is going to try and push long term rates down or create a false market for long term rates.

The other questions are not irrelevant Dung. Just saying 'the big announcement was QE3' is hilarious. What matters are how QE3 will help alleviate the problems we face.

How will it help unemployment Dung?

How will it stimulate growth?

How does it help the lending situation?

Do corporations need greater lending right now? Individuals? Or are those in need of lending 'unqualified' to borrow no matter what rates are at?
 
If you do not appeal to authority, who then do you get advice from in your world?

When experts disagree, they use reason, this post of his is used in place of reason, hence a fallacy.

A reasonable person can use information from the experts to argue, if all you have is "they are experts so you shut up" you are presenting a fallacy. And especially so when those experts were the ones that created the problem we currently are in. The truly logical would be able to present either side of the argument without using an appeal to authority, because they would have studied the reasons of those authorities.

IMO, SF is one of the most expert on this subject among us, because he has...
 
How does one short the American economy?

They don't, he ran out of knowledge and began to resort to fallacies. That one is an ad hom, the next was the Appeal to Authority which he tried to cover like a cat in a litter box. That one didn't work, and we could still smell it after.

I've been fascinated by his presentation in this thread in particular. I still would like to know what nefarious motive he was attributing to my post that he quoted. It would definitely give me some insight into the real Dungheap.
 
Not particularly, no. Oil prices are but one of many factors.




Keeping long term rates low doesn't particularly help the economy at this point, but raising them would harm the economy. I don't think the big announcement today had much to do with long term rates except to the extent that the FED made clear that it isn't likely to increase them until mid-2015. Basically, the FED signaled that it isn't going to increase rates any time soon and set market expectations for how it will react to a growing economy. The rest of the questions are irrelevant. The big announcement was QE3.

Here is a question for you. From a financial perspective, why did Wall St respond so favorably to the Fed announcement?

Why do stocks go up in response to fed action of keeping interest rates low?
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...87db5a-fc41-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_story.html

Fortunately, not everything is up to date in Kansas City. Esther George, president of the regional Federal Reserve Bank here, is refreshingly retrograde regarding what less circumspect people welcome as the modernizing of the nation’s central bank into a central economic planner. She has concerns, both prudential and philosophical, about the transformation of the Fed in ways that erase the distinction between monetary policy, which is the Fed’s proper business, and fiscal policy, which is inherently political.

The basic interest rate — i.e., the federal funds rate minus the inflation rate — was negative during about 40 percent of the disastrous 1970s and the 2000s, which ended disastrously. Because today’s rate is negative, the Fed’s stimulus repertoire is reduced to “quantitative easing.” That phrase, which is how government speaks when trying not to be understood, means printing money. Except printing is so 20th century. Nowadays, the Fed gives banks digital transfusions of money to lower long-term interest rates, which result in . . .

Not much bang for trillions of bucks. With corporations holding upward of $2 trillion in cash, and 30-year mortgages at 3.5 percent, George, speaking several weeks before this week’s meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee, asked: “Is there anyone not borrowing today or purchasing a house because interest rates aren’t low enough? Do we expect that businesses will hire if their long-term rates are lower?”

Very low interest rates discourage saving, punish retirees living off interest-bearing assets and, George says, “incent people into riskier assets.” These include commodities, farm land (for the first time on record, prices of cropland in George’s district have risen more than 20 percent for two consecutive years) and equities. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke evidently thinks that driving up the stock market will quicken the animal spirits of the affluent 20 percent who own 93 percent of equities, and this “wealth effect” will spur economic activity, eventually benefiting others. So, the interest rates Barack Obama favors are a form of the trickle-down economics he execrates.

Richard W. Fisher, George’s counterpart at the Dallas regional Fed, is “perplexed” by Wall Street’s “preoccupation, bordering upon fetish” concerning a possible third round of qualitative easing, or QE3. Financiers “have become hooked on the monetary morphine we provided when we performed massive reconstructive surgery” during the 2008-09 panic. However, “monetary policy provides the fuel” for America’s economy and “we have filled the gas tank and then some.”

George considers the Fed’s dual mandate — “stable prices” and “maximum employment” — “redundant”: Achieving the former is the best thing the Fed can do for the latter. James Bullard, president of the St. Louis Fed, seems to agree. Monetary policy, George acknowledges, is “a blunt tool.” Its bluntness is, however, a virtue if it discourages the folly of trying to fine-tune the economy.

“People,” George says, “will figure out a way to make a buck if they know what the rules are.” Investing — including hiring, which is investing in employees — is a wager on the future. Fidgety government makes the future unnecessarily opaque. Stanford’s John Taylor notes that “over the past 12 years, the number of provisions of the tax code expiring annually has increased tenfold,” the number of federal regulators has grown 25 percent in five years, and Obamacare and Dodd-Frank expand uncertainty by enlarging the government’s discretion.

Uncertainty is exacerbated by the Fed’s exercise of its vast discretion, including QE1, QE2 and, perhaps soon, QE3 (or QE5, including two “twists” also aimed at lowering borrowing costs). Bernanke, who promises more “policy accommodation” to support the economic recovery, is inadvertently vindicating Milton Friedman’s belief that “the stock of money [should] be increased at a fixed rate year-in and year-out without any variation in the rate of increase to meet cyclical needs.”

More at link...
 
A George Will column? So if I post a Krugman column that quotes other Fed Presidents (4 of the 5 regional presidents voted in favor of QE3, by the way) what then?
 
A George Will column? So if I post a Krugman column that quotes other Fed Presidents (4 of the 5 regional presidents voted in favor of QE3, by the way) what then?

Then people reading this thread will have another viewpoint to consider. I do applaud your restraint in an all out attack on the source. That is a first.

By all means, post a Krugman article and we can discuss the points brought up in it as well.
 
buy puts on the S&P, sell futures contracts, buy funds that short the market, short sell stocks...

I know how to short the market. But there isn't a way to short the economy. Unless of course you are saying the market is a proxy for the economy. Given fed action, we both know that is not true any longer
 
A George Will column? So if I post a Krugman column that quotes other Fed Presidents (4 of the 5 regional presidents voted in favor of QE3, by the way) what then?

Let's try another tack. Your OP started off thankful for QE3. Why are you thankful? Because Ben Bernanke old you to be thankful?

You are leaving me no other option than to think you don't know what you are talking about and have no ability to think for yourself. But then you are a liberal, so.............
 
It's about time. I'd prefer a different policy to get the economy cooking, but at least it's something and it seems targeted towards housing, which is important:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...illion-in-mortgage-securities-each-month.html

Yea...I'm a tad squeamish about the FED buying mbd's. It will once again allow lenders to unload their crap, and start writing again. Seems as if Wall St. will love it again, while we wallow around here at the bottom waiting for the jobs to come around.
 
When experts disagree, they use reason, this post of his is used in place of reason, hence a fallacy.

A reasonable person can use information from the experts to argue, if all you have is "they are experts so you shut up" you are presenting a fallacy. And especially so when those experts were the ones that created the problem we currently are in. The truly logical would be able to present either side of the argument without using an appeal to authority, because they would have studied the reasons of those authorities.

IMO, SF is one of the most expert on this subject among us, because he has...

So, you are appealing to his authority, got it.
 
When experts disagree, they use reason, this post of his is used in place of reason, hence a fallacy.

A reasonable person can use information from the experts to argue, if all you have is "they are experts so you shut up" you are presenting a fallacy. And especially so when those experts were the ones that created the problem we currently are in. The truly logical would be able to present either side of the argument without using an appeal to authority, because they would have studied the reasons of those authorities.?

IMO, SF is one of the most expert on this subject among us, because he has...

I thought this was only used when a new idea is being presented. I see no new ideas being presented on your side, thus the appeal to authority does not apply, as I understand the notion. Just my take on the issue.
 
I thought this was only used when a new idea is being presented. I see no new ideas being presented on your side, thus the appeal to authority does not apply, as I understand the notion. Just my take on the issue.

Okay, I went and researched the definition of "appeal to authority" and I still don't see how it is applicable in this case because it seems that the general's authorities are indeed authoirties, even if Damo disagrees with their position, they are experts in their field, so to argue that they are experts in this instance is accurate.
 
Okay, I went and researched the definition of "appeal to authority" and I still don't see how it is applicable in this case because it seems that the general's authorities are indeed authoirties, even if Damo disagrees with their position, they are experts in their field, so to argue that they are experts in this instance is accurate.

Appeal to authority is being used because he says 'they are 'experts' and they must be right' in an attempt to end the discussion.

Pointing to the Fed, the same organization that was a large part of the housing bubble problem, as experts... is quite comical.
 
Making our dollar worth less is good for us?

I'm going to buy some silver soon before it's to high.

We have had ten years of weak dollar policy. That should answer just how bad a weak dollar policy is.

Take a look at when we had a strong dollar policy under Clinton and Reagan. hmmm.... a net importing nation is actually stronger when their currency is stronger... No friggin way.
 
We have had ten years of weak dollar policy. That should answer just how bad a weak dollar policy is.

Take a look at when we had a strong dollar policy under Clinton and Reagan. hmmm.... a net importing nation is actually stronger when their currency is stronger... No friggin way.


That's fucking awesome, man. Yeah, I see no issue with looking to the two largest post WWII economic expansions and saying that whatever policies were in place then would be good now.
 
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