Official VP Debate Thread

[Cancel 2016.2]

why do republicans all pretend they want to save SS whenever they are in a debate?

Because they, unlike Dems, actually DO want to save SS. Dems want to cling to the failed system that was set up. Which is why they resort to fear mongering every time a proposal is put forth to modify SS so that it survives.

 

[evince]

trying to claim that Obamas leadership was unable to have the foresight to see these embassys need for "boots on the ground" was a bullshit statement right from the top of bullshit mountain.

(OLiely is the Mayor of Bullshit mountain according to john stewart in their famous debate)

How would have the republicans and robmoney reacted if marines were shipped into Lybia to protect said embassys?


alot of bullshit mountains shit would have been thrown arround the whole country.




Face it you people hate Obama no matter what he does.

Remember all the republican bills the republican voted against because Obama came on board the bill?



This is what happens to a country when ONE party desides they hate a president so much that they will distroy a good idea JUST to harm the current president.


what you get is bad governance.


the right today cares more about distroying one man than they care about RESTORING this one and only country of ours.

party over country at every turn for the republicans of today.

You have also distroyed a once great party too

 

[Bonestorm]

Like the Presidential debate, I did not watch the VP debate. Instead, I read the text. From the text, I would give Biden a distinct edge in this debate. Though even reading it was difficult with all the interruptions. After reading the text, I watched the debate. After watching it, I can see why the Dem base was 'happy' with Biden and thought he crushed Ryan and I can see why the Rep base thought Ryan won due to Joe being insanely obnoxious.

I think it likely a draw overall, though on substance Biden won.

So Biden wins "on susbtance," but it's a draw overall because you think Biden was "obnoxious." If you win on substance, you win. Bitching about decorum and the like is the game of losers.

 

[christiefan915]

Like the Presidential debate, I did not watch the VP debate. Instead, I read the text. From the text, I would give Biden a distinct edge in this debate. Though even reading it was difficult with all the interruptions. After reading the text, I watched the debate. After watching it, I can see why the Dem base was 'happy' with Biden and thought he crushed Ryan and I can see why the Rep base thought Ryan won due to Joe being insanely obnoxious.

I think it likely a draw overall, though on substance Biden won.

We almost agree on something, who woulda guessed. I was in the car and listened to the first half-hour or so on the radio and Biden was clearly winning. Then I watched the next hour and Biden's expressions and gestures were getting in the way of the points he was trying to make. But I don't see it as a draw because for me, substance trumps style.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

It's not that cut and dried, according to fact checkers. Full explanation at link.

Conclusion: It's unclear how high Nordstrom's request got in the administration, but he says he did ask the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs for more security help at the Benghazi post.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/index.html

Yes, as always it is unclear how high it went. I am sure executive privilege will be used again if necessary, just like F&F.

But it is the job of the State department to assess security at the embassies. As stated in your link:

Under Secretary of State for Management Patrick Kennedy responded, at the hearing, to suggestions the State Department was responsible for a lack of preparedness: "We regularly assess risk and resource allocation, a process involving the considered judgments of experienced professionals on the ground and in Washington, using the best available information."

Also according to your link, the requests for more security date back for over a year. That is a clear failure of State. Did it go up to the desk of Hillary or Biden or Obama... I doubt it. But it is a blatant lie to state that the requests were not made.

Also, the lie I referred to was that he tried to blame the budget for the lack of security. There is nowhere in the budget that said embassy security must be cut in Libya. You pick and choose the hot spots and make them more secure. You reduce security in other countries where the threat is not as high.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

A summary of comments by JPP conservatives.

Biden v. Ryan

trying to laugh off your opponents statements...
Biden's attempt at condescension isn't playing well ...
Hair plugs are lookin' good....
biden looks desperate interrupting all the time ...
The mod. is letting Biden run off at the mouth and interrupt constantly...
He appears childish...
can biden stop interrupting? sheesh bad form...
personally, I think Ryan rocked it.....
When Biden is not speaking, he's laughing or grinning off-camera, looking like some smug condescending ass...
The constant interruptions looked unprofessional and actually made him seem weaker rather than "aggressive"...
some people are given biden the edge but it certainly isn't a run away victory...
More people are talking about the smirks and interruptions than what was said....
Biden continuously talked over Ryan...
The only thing anyone will be able to talk about is Bidens One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest smile...
I think the public will perceive the debate to be a tie...
I still think it is funny that lefties think that Biden won...
please explain how you think biden won. we know he won the most interruptions in a single debate award......
biden lost on decorum imo...ryan clearly won the debate...
Biden was talking all over ryan. not just for a second or two but sometimes minutes...

Martha Raddatz

I see her lean to the left is obvious....
Every time the moderator interrogates Ryan he has to answer....she doesn't do that to Biden...
Her partisan leaning came shinning through....
Interrogating Ryan and letting Biden completely off the hook shows exactly where she was coming form...

Precious little from you guys on the actual substance of the debate... you know, the part that Ryan failed miserably. A couple of comments on Libya and Iran, that was about it. All you did was focus on style, well that's not going to cut it for people like me who wanted to see Ryan make some detailed points about what he and Rmoney would do if they won. And blaming Martha Raddatz for Ryan's showing is just hilarious. She asked him specific questions and he refused to give specific answers. What exactly is in their plans, that both seem to be afraid of showing the public? It's the coward's way out, never getting too detailed so your comments don't come back and bite you down the road. Good thing they're not running on a platform of transparency in government, huh!

Tell ya what. Why don't you list the administrations "specific plans". I didn't hear anything from Biden except "let the top marginal rates expire". What are the specifics? Plugs didn't have any.

Here is the bottom line. Substance matters definitely, although given the partisan that you are, I doubt Ryan could have said anything that would have swayed you so your charges are laughable. But, style matters as well. Biden actually could have scored a knockout if he hadn't been so churlish, condescending and rude. At the end of the day, partisans from both sides took away from last nights debate what they wanted to take away. I said before, on substance, although I disagree Biden probably made a better case for his arguments except for Libya. On style, Biden lost miserably.

The question is what do those who aren't die hard partisans and dont' follow this stuff everyday and live on message boards think? My guess is they will find Biden's behavior unbecoming. You of course are thrilled by it which says more about OWEblahblah's poor performance and your need to feel jazzed again than it does about Biden's performance.

And for you to talk about transparency when you support the most secretive administration since Nixon is laughable

 

[canceled.2021.1]

trying to claim that Obamas leadership was unable to have the foresight to see these embassys need for "boots on the ground" was a bullshit statement right from the top of bullshit mountain.

(OLiely is the Mayor of Bullshit mountain according to john stewart in their famous debate)

How would have the republicans and robmoney reacted if marines were shipped into Lybia to protect said embassys?


alot of bullshit mountains shit would have been thrown arround the whole country.




Face it yu=ou people hate Obama no matter what he does.

Remember all the republican bills the republican voted against because Obama came on board the bill?



This is what happens to a country when ONE party desides they hate a president so much that they will distroy a good idea JUST to harm the current president.


what you get is bad governance.


the right today cares more about distroying one man than they care about RESTORING i=this one and only country of ours.

party over country at every turn for the republicans of today.

You have also distroyed a once great patty too

Your whining is laughable at best considering the dems tried to thwart Bush at every turn calling illigitimate and saying he stole the election. My you have a short memory. Your arguments are childish when you claim that the GOP opposes OWEblahblah merely because they hate him. Essentially your contention is that they support his ideas, they just vote against them anyway. You might as well end your post with a neener neener neener

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Yes, as always it is unclear how high it went. I am sure executive privilege will be used again if necessary, just like F&F.

But it is the job of the State department to assess security at the embassies. As stated in your link:



Also according to your link, the requests for more security date back for over a year. That is a clear failure of State. Did it go up to the desk of Hillary or Biden or Obama... I doubt it. But it is a blatant lie to state that the requests were not made.

Also, the lie I referred to was that he tried to blame the budget for the lack of security. There is nowhere in the budget that said embassy security must be cut in Libya. You pick and choose the hot spots and make them more secure. You reduce security in other countries where the threat is not as high.

It is part and parcel of this regime. They blame everything from tsunamis to altitude for their failures. Have you ever seen OWEblahblah take responsibility for anything since he has been in office?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

why do republicans all pretend they want to save SS whenever they are in a debate?

That was actually a good moment by Biden when he looked directly into the camera and said "Look folks, use some common sense, who do you trust on medicare and social security?"

Ryan could have turned his logic on him though when the discussion got to defense by saying something similiar. Fortunately the Republicans fucked up so badly in Iraq that they don't have a whole lot of credibility on Foreign Affairs. Their "Redneck Diplomacy" has been a spectacular failure. Prior to that they had more credibility than Democrats on defense issues. Turns out competence does matter in Foreign affairs.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Like the Presidential debate, I did not watch the VP debate. Instead, I read the text. From the text, I would give Biden a distinct edge in this debate. Though even reading it was difficult with all the interruptions. After reading the text, I watched the debate. After watching it, I can see why the Dem base was 'happy' with Biden and thought he crushed Ryan and I can see why the Rep base thought Ryan won due to Joe being insanely obnoxious.

I think it likely a draw overall, though on substance Biden won.

That pretty well sums up my opinion. It's really a big whoop. The only thing I care about the VP's is that they have the qualifications that you feel that they can step into the role of President should something happen to the POTUS. I think that criteria was met for both candidates last night. Other than that the VP debates are like drinking a warm glass of flat beer. I'd much rather have seen Obama out perform Romney in the first debate and then see Biden lose the VP debate anytime! LOL

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Pro tip: when you're argument that your guy won a debate is based on the other guy's "decorum" it's a sure sign that your guy lost the debate.

Oh I don't know about that. I got into a heated debate with a gentleman who's decurom was terrible. He got pissed and popped me one in the mouth. He certainly did win that debate as I had nothing to say for quite a while after that! LOL

 

[Phantasmal]

Because they, unlike Dems, actually DO want to save SS. Dems want to cling to the failed system that was set up. Which is why they resort to fear mongering every time a proposal is put forth to modify SS so that it survives.

Their proposals would sink SS, that is the plan.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

trying to claim that Obamas leadership was unable to have the foresight to see these embassys need for "boots on the ground" was a bullshit statement right from the top of bullshit mountain.

ROFLMAO... it is truly amazing watching your partisan spin. The embassy had been requesting more security for over a year Desh.

How would have the republicans and robmoney reacted if marines were shipped into Lybia to protect said embassys?

Um... I am pretty certain Marines guard all of our embassies around the world Desh.

Face it yu=ou people hate Obama no matter what he does.

This line of crap is old and tired. Every time someone dares criticize Obama the left wing nuts jump out and proclaim it is because of hate or race. It is pathetic.

This is what happens to a country when ONE party desides they hate a president so much that they will distroy a good idea JUST to harm the current president.

More bullshit from Desh.

what you get is bad governance.

Bad governance is what you get when you elect someone based on hope and change that has no idea what he is doing. Bad governance is what you get when that same person cares more about being perceived 'cool' than he does about actually working for the American people to get the job done.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

That pretty well sums up my opinion. It's really a big whoop. The only thing I care about the VP's is that they have the qualifications that you feel that they can step into the role of President should something happen to the POTUS. I think that criteria was met for both candidates last night. Other than that the VP debates are like drinking a warm glass of flat beer. I'd much rather have seen Obama out perform Romney in the first debate and then see Biden lose the VP debate anytime! LOL

Fair points. The left are over emphasizing Bidens performance exactly because of OWEblahblah's piss poor performance. The question I have is what evidence is there that OWEblahblah can overcome his poor debate performance? If you look at the past, he didn't perform that spectacularly in his debates with McShamnesty. Compared to the little troll, he was the skinniest kid in fat camp. Going back to the democrat primaries, I don't remember anyone saying he won any of those debates. Hell, he was outperformed by Tawawna Sharpton.

So where is the evidence that OWEblahblah will perform any better in the next two debates?

My personal opinion is that the next two debates will do little to change the narrative and here is why.

The American people have already decided that they do not want to re-elect OWEblahblah as evidenced by his inability to climb above 50% in his approval ratings. What Romney needed to do and was unable to do until last weeks debate was make people feel comfortable that he could do the job. He didn't even have to convince them that they agreed with his policies, he just needed to make them feel comfortable enough seeing him as President. He more than accomplished that last week. That is why you see such a huge move in the polls for Romney.

It is going to take one huge gaffe or October surprise to change the winds that are blowing against OWEblahblah right now. He blew his entire wad in August and September trying to define Romney and was largely successful. But, with 70 million people watching in 90 minutes Romney erased all of it.

I am more confident today that Romney wins in a landslide at least 52-48% in the popular vote and at least 330 electoral votes taking North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, Colorado and even Wisconsin. Pennsylvania has always been fools gold for the GOP since Reagan, but there may be a chance.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

So Biden wins "on susbtance," but it's a draw overall because you think Biden was "obnoxious." If you win on substance, you win. Bitching about decorum and the like is the game of losers.

If you are talking about normal debating rules... you are correct. I am talking about in terms of public perception. Those two are completely different and you know it.

The vast majority of people watching have never debated. The vast majority care more about their particular party than what was actually said by both parties. Even the independents/undecideds tend to vote more on that perception rather than the reality. It is why Kennedy won the Presidency over Nixon. It certainly didn't hurt Clinton or Reagan either. Even GW Bush benefited from Gore sighing. Those things matter in terms of perception. That is why you can score it both on content and overall and not end with the same conclusion.

It is one of the reasons I chose to read the text prior to watching the debates. I didn't want the body language/tone to set my perception of the content.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Their proposals would sink SS, that is the plan.

No, they would not sink SS. That is simply bs

 

[Phantasmal]

No, they would not sink SS. That is simply bs

Well, I think it isn't, and until I see facts that guarantee it wouldn't, then this is what I believe. I agree with raising the age, people are living longer and working longer, my husband wants to work until they ask him to retire, he enjoys his current job, but privatizing it would be a disaster that would result in the Feds bailing people out because of poor choices.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Fair points. The left are over emphasizing Bidens performance exactly because of OWEblahblah's piss poor performance. The question I have is what evidence is there that OWEblahblah can overcome his poor debate performance? If you look at the past, he didn't perform that spectacularly in his debates with McShamnesty. Compared to the little troll, he was the skinniest kid in fat camp. Going back to the democrat primaries, I don't remember anyone saying he won any of those debates. Hell, he was outperformed by Tawawna Sharpton.

So where is the evidence that OWEblahblah will perform any better in the next two debates?

My personal opinion is that the next two debates will do little to change the narrative and here is why.

The American people have already decided that they do not want to re-elect OWEblahblah as evidenced by his inability to climb above 50% in his approval ratings. What Romney needed to do and was unable to do until last weeks debate was make people feel comfortable that he could do the job. He didn't even have to convince them that they agreed with his policies, he just needed to make them feel comfortable enough seeing him as President. He more than accomplished that last week. That is why you see such a huge move in the polls for Romney.

It is going to take one huge gaffe or October surprise to change the winds that are blowing against OWEblahblah right now. He blew his entire wad in August and September trying to define Romney and was largely successful. But, with 70 million people watching in 90 minutes Romney erased all of it.

I am more confident today that Romney wins in a landslide at least 52-48% in the popular vote and at least 330 electoral votes taking North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, Colorado and even Wisconsin. Pennsylvania has always been fools gold for the GOP since Reagan, but there may be a chance.

Good luck with that. You'll need it. I don't think Obama will rest on his laurels after the first debate and considering Republicans past giant failures in foreign policy and considering Romney's tendency to put his foot into his own mouth on Foreign policy and considering he probably is not as up to speed on these issues (he's only been gettiing briefs since his nomination and Obama has been getting them for four years.) as Obama, Romney could be at a real disadvantage if Obama puts his feet to the fire.

Personally Romney scares the hell out of me on Iran. I don't know if he's just talking tough or if he's hell bent for another unneeded and unneccessary war.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, I think it isn't, and until I see facts that guarantee it wouldn't, then this is what I believe. I agree with raising the age, people are living longer and working longer, my husband wants to work until they ask him to retire, he enjoys his current job, but privatizing it would be a disaster that would result in the Feds bailing people out because of poor choices.

This is why you are incorrect. You have fallen for the Dem line of BS that privatization = putting the money in the market/giving people too many choices etc...

That is not what privatization means. You can limit their choices to Government bonds and still privatize.

 

[Phantasmal]

This is why you are incorrect. You have fallen for the Dem line of BS that privatization = putting the money in the market/giving people too many choices etc...

That is not what privatization means. You can limit their choices to Government bonds and still privatize.

They wouldn't limit it though, would they.