Does drilling cause earthquakes?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guns Guns Guns
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Rune said:
Pumping millions of gallons of fracturing fluid into the bedrock, at 10,000 psi, enough force to litteraly fracture the rock isn't likely to cause any seismic activity?

Do you realise that just a few gallons at 10,000 pounds per square inch (psi) can easily lift the Empire State Building?

You seem to have no concept whatsoever of the forces involved in fracking.
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That also isn't what the story is about. They are trying to say that an otherwise quiet place is suddenly active because of fracking. They ignore that there was an active fault line there to begin with.

Reality: There is no evidence that fracking causes more plate activity. Even wide area fracking is minimal in comparison to geological shift. Your argument here is childlike. It can "lift a building"... Geological plate shifting moves frickin' CONTINENTS. It is a stupid comparison. It's like pretending that a jack hammer is the same thing as an earthquake... sure, if you limit your study to 3 feet.
 
Damocles said:
That also isn't what the story is about. They are trying to say that an otherwise quiet place is suddenly active because of fracking. They ignore that there was an active fault line there to begin with.

Reality: There is no evidence that fracking causes more plate activity. Even wide area fracking is minimal in comparison to geological shift. Your argument here is childlike. It can "lift a building"... Geological plate shifting moves frickin' CONTINENTS. It is a stupid comparison. It's like pretending that a jack hammer is the same thing as an earthquake... sure, if you limit your study to 3 feet.
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That's what having an IQ in the 99th percentile does for you. I now know that it means he is at the bottom and not the top. You could easily advance an argument for saying that fracking causes some tiny earthquakes which is a lot better than having a great big one. Although I wouldn't suggest doing this near the St. Andreas fault. Rune is quite childlike in some of his beliefs, he is almost totally opposed to just about everything except windmills. I have given up trying to expalin anything to him, he's just too dense.
 
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Damocles said:
That also isn't what the story is about. They are trying to say that an otherwise quiet place is suddenly active because of fracking. They ignore that there was an active fault line there to begin with.

Reality: There is no evidence that fracking causes more plate activity. Even wide area fracking is minimal in comparison to geological shift. Your argument here is childlike. It can "lift a building"... Geological plate shifting moves frickin' CONTINENTS. It is a stupid comparison. It's like pretending that a jack hammer is the same thing as an earthquake... sure, if you limit your study to 3 feet.
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Reality: There is evidence that fracking causes more seismic activity.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/08/on-fracking-and-seismic-hazards-better-data-more-quakes.html
 
Dungheap said:
Reality: There is evidence that fracking causes more seismic activity.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/08/on-fracking-and-seismic-hazards-better-data-more-quakes.html
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Again, there is evidence that there is currently more activity, but the evidence is simply not conclusive that the activity was caused by fracking. There is no conclusive evidence that fracking is the cause of more activity, even with this study. If you call the fracking itself "seismic activity" then you may as well give up and just say that driving cars causes "seismic activity" so do jackhammers and jumping up and down, none of which prove that there is more plate activity and continental shift caused by fracking. If such were the case their findings would have activity around all wells. That they are finding "more activity" near "some" wells notwithstanding this story doesn't even suggest that there is conclusive evidence of such a connection.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
So you should abandon an incredibly cheap way of getting natural gas because there have been a few coffee cups rattled? Can you demonstrate even one case where there has been an injury or danger to humans?
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I'm not advocating for or against fracking, just for a little honesty in the discussion.
 
Damocles said:
Again, there is evidence that there is currently more activity, but the evidence is simply not conclusive that the activity was caused by fracking. There is no conclusive evidence that fracking is the cause of more activity, even with this study. If you call the fracking itself "seismic activity" then you may as well give up and just say that driving cars causes "seismic activity" so do jackhammers and jumping up and down.
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"No evidence" and "no conclusive evidence" are very different things. There is objective evidence that fracking causes more seismic activity. Whether you think it is conclusive or not is a subjective question.
 
Dungheap said:
"No evidence" and "no conclusive evidence" are very different things. There is objective evidence that fracking causes more seismic activity. Whether you think it is conclusive or not is a subjective question.
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Fair enough. We're holding a conversation here and I forgot "conclusive". I am sorry. However, the article itself makes it clear that there is no conclusive evidence. It even points that that many wells drilled near the fault lines show no increase in activity while others have some increase... Seriously, did you even read the article? First it is presented from a blog that really wants there to be correlation (Pretext). But it concludes with a hope that the scientists are "homing in" on evidence. You have conjecture, absolutely not conclusive evidence... they hope to "home in" on that evidence...
 
Damocles said:
Fair enough. We're holding a conversation here and I forgot "conclusive". I am sorry. However, the article itself makes it clear that there is no conclusive evidence. It even points that that many wells drilled near the fault lines show no increase in activity while others have some increase... Seriously, did you even read the article? First it is presented from a blog that really wants there to be correlation (Pretext). But it concludes with a hope that the scientists are "homing in" on evidence. You have conjecture, absolutely not conclusive evidence... they hope to "home in" on that evidence...
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You could have stopped at "I'm sorry." The rest is just noise.
 
Dungheap said:
You could have stopped at "I'm sorry." The rest is just noise.
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The rest points out that your article clearly indicated that the "evidence" you said exists was slim at best and they hope to "home in" on some more objective evidence some day. Your claim that there is "objective evidence" that suggests this is a stronger claim than that in your article.
 
Damocles said:
The rest points out that your article clearly indicated that the "evidence" you said exists was slim at best and they hope to "home in" on some more objective evidence some day. Your claim that there is "objective evidence" that suggests this is a stronger claim than that in your article.
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You really are that hyper-partisan, aren't you?
 
Damocles said:
The rest points out that your article clearly indicated that the "evidence" you said exists was slim at best and they hope to "home in" on some more objective evidence some day. Your claim that there is "objective evidence" that suggests this is a stronger claim than that in your article.
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There is evidence that fracking actually prevents bigger earthquakes by relieving the stress in a fault or faults.
 
Dungheap said:
You really are that hyper-partisan, aren't you?
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This is nothing about "partisan". It is my hope to begin, like you, to "advocate for a little honesty" in the discussion. If the evidence was there I'd be on the side of the evidence. Instead we have an article where they report that somebody tested wells near fault lines and found that "some" of them had increased seismic activity around them while others had no increase. That isn't objective evidence of causality by any scientific measure, in fact it would indicate that the cause of increase may not be the fracking.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Can you show some evidence where fracking has caused injuries or harm to humans? Are you aware that the Richter scale is logarithmic?
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Can you tell me what relevance these question have to the accuracy of Damo's statements? That's all I've addressed in this thread. Two statements that he made that I believe are inaccurate.

Also, too, your hyper-vigilance towards any statements that could remotely be construed to be contrary to the best interests of the oil and gas industries is really, really bizarre.
 
Dungheap said:
Can you tell me what relevance these question have to the accuracy of Damo's statements? That's all I've addressed in this thread. Two statements that he made that I believe are inaccurate.

Also, too, your hyper-vigilance towards any statements that could remotely be construed to be contrary to the best interests of the oil and gas industries is really, really bizarre.
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I just don't understand why people are so implacably opposed to fracking, it just seems to go well beyond any rationality. As Mott said, as long as it is well regulated then there are few problems, it seems that you would prefer to pay European prices for natural gas. If fracking is so dangerous then you ought to be able to show chapter and verse of all the harm that its caused. What is bizarre is all the scientifically illiterate coming on here and pontificating about the subject. One such canard is on the composition of the fracking water, well here is a diagram from the Dept. of Energy website. Can you see any aromatic hydrocarbons like benzene, toluene or phenol listed there? Of course, som ebright spark like Rune will say that it is all lies and he knows better as they are all shills and controlled by Big Oil and Big Gas.

Fracking%20Farce.png
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
Uhh....the New Madrid fault isn't in Ohio.
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Facts like the New Madrid fault not being in Ohio doesn't matter to the drillers and their toadies. It's just an excuse to cover the damage that fracking is doing to Ohio and west .Pa. and anywhere where it's being used.

I lived just north of Youngstown Ohio for 35 years, we never had as much as a small shake from the New Madrid fault, it's not in Ohio. We also had a deep well that produced the cleanest best tasting water. My sister still lives in the same house. Since fracking her water is ruined, as is the ground water in the whole N.E. Ohio area. She heard the boom when the earthquake caused by fracking hit almost 20 miles away. She's in her mid 50's and has lived there all her life and the quake caused by fracking was a first for her.

If you are for fracking then you're a fracking idiot. Or a greedy oil company who's ceo's will roast in hell.

This insane way of recovering energy should be stopped immediately.
 
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