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So did you support the shooting down of KAL 007? A simple yes or no would suffice.
Libya`s ``Government`` in Disarray After Largest Party Quits ``Congress``
- Thread starter blackascoal
- Start date
So did you support the shooting down of KAL 007? A simple yes or no would suffice.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
The Lies Of Democracy and the Language Of Deceit
In an increasingly media-driven age, language is everything and is often used by officialdom to tyrannise meaning. With the deaths of millions on its hands since 1945, the US has become the world’s number one terror state. By the 1980s, former CIA man John Stockwell had put the figure at six million. As a recent article has indicated, from mass bombing in Southeast Asia to employing death squads in South America, the US military and the CIA have been directly and indirectly responsible for an updated figure of an estimated ten million deaths (1). But it’s not called mass murder these days. Ironically, the US has hijacked the word ‘terror’ to justify its brand of tyranny through a war on terror.
You can also add to that ten million, countless others whose lives have been sacrificed on the altar of corporate profit, which did not rely on the military to bomb peoples and countries into submission, but on a certain policy. It’s not browbeating. It’s structural adjustment.
As a result, hundreds of thousands of Indian farmers have taken their own lives over the past decade and a half largely as a result of US agribusiness manipulating global commodity prices courtesy of policies enacted on its behalf by the US government or due to the corporate monopoly, or frontier technology, of terminator seeds that also landed farmers in debt which was just too much for them to bear (2).
The plight of Indian farmers is not unique. How many lives have been cut short across the world because of the inherent structural violence or silent killing of the everyday seemingly benign functioning of predatory capitalism? The built-in inequalities of the system have effectively stolen years from people’s lives, the health from their bodies, the livelihoods from their hands, the water from their taps and food from their plates. From the UK to Africa, the subjugated classes – the now often discarded economic fodder, the cannon fodder during times of war or the returning heroes to be thrown overboard by the system on coming home, the people who are to be manipulated and exploited at will via bogus notions of nationalism or the national interest – have had their lives cut short or stripped bare of opportunities due to the hardships imposed by the iron fist of capitalism (3).
The appropriation of wealth through a system that funnels it from bottom to top via a process of accumulation by dispossession (4) is celebrated as growth, prosperity, and freedom of choice, despite evidence that, from Greece to Spain, the reality for the majority has been increasing poverty, the stripping away of choice and misery.
You wouldn’t know much about this if you just used the mainstream media for information, though. Sure, you may have been told to tighten your belt because we are all in it together and must make some sacrifices in these difficult economic times.
And just for good measure, as much of the country (any country) is thrown onto the scraphead because it is surplus to requirements now that their jobs have been outsourced abroad, we simply must attack Mali, Syria, Libya, Iran (the list goes on) because not to do so would let the evil-doers take over the world. And then where would we be without such high-minded notions? It’s not resource plunder. It’s humanitarianism.
Well, we would be precisely where we are right now because the evil-doers are already in control and waging war not only on the people of those countries just mentioned, but on the people within their own countries too via the tools of surveillance, the penal system, the comotosing effects of spymaster imported illegal drugs or the infotainment industry and the barrage of legislation that is serving to strip away civil liberties. The game is up, the dominant Western economy (the US) is broken beyond repair (5). Imperialism and militarism won’t save it, but dissent won’t be allowed.
And as private bankers entrap us all even further via their licence to print and loan currencies to national governments then also loan them the interest on it that spirals out of hand so it can never be paid back (6), they are able to line their pockets even further by buying up national assets on the cheap from the countries they bankrupted in the first place. It’s not racketeering. It’s austerity.
“And now they’re coming for your social security. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all sooner or later because they own this place.” Gorge Carlin, writer, critic and comedian.
And where is the mainstream media in all of this? Where are those journalists whose claim to respectability is their rigid professionalism, their accountability, their objectivity? If you can call professionalism, accountability and objectivity being in the pocket of and not wishing to offend advertising interests, officialdom, lobbyists or corporate think tanks then they are paragons of absolute virtue!
Peddling their high salaried lies, they have failed and continue to fail the public. By shining their dim ‘investigative’ light on ‘parliamentary procedures’, personalities, the rubber stamping of policies and the inane machinations of party politics, they merely serve to maintain and perpetuate the status quo and keep the public in the dark as to the unaccountable self-serving power broking and unity of interests that enable Big Oil, Big Banking, Big Pharma, Big Agra and the rest of them to keep bleeding us all dry.
Looking back to the BBC’s reporting of the NATO bombing of Libya provides quite revealing insight into the mainstream media. The coverage was disgracefully one-sided. Is the public to pay for a ‘public service’ broadcaster in order to be misled and for it to secure our compliance for illegal state-corporate policies? There was little analysis of ‘mission’ drift’ or of where the insurgents where getting their arms from despite a UN-sanctioned arms embargo. Much less of NATO’s moral right to bomb a path into Tripoli. No talk there of what University of Johannesburg professor Chris Landsberg said was NATO’s violation of international law or of the 200 prominent African figures who accused western nations of subverting international law.
On the other hand, though, what we are served courtesy of the mainstream media each time Britain decides to wage war is a tasty dish of nationalistic sentiment and the old colonial mentality of ‘our boys’ going out ‘there’ to help civilise the barbarians.
But that’s the role of the media: to help reinforce and reproduce the material conditions of an exploitative and divisive social system on a daily basis. It’s called having a compliant, toothless media. It’s liberal democracy. That’s the role not only of the media, but the education system and the political system too.
And that’s why former British PM was some years ago told by his financial masters to sell of what was laughingly regarded as ‘the nation’s gold’ at a knock down price on behalf of bankers’ (not the nation’s) interests without being held up to genuine public scrutiny. Some say that was the first ‘bail out’ (7). That’s why taxpayers’ money, unbeknown to most of the taxpayers, is being used unaccountably and undemocratically to help prop up banks and to topple various countries and bring death and destruction to thousands via ‘covert ops’. Covert – hidden from the public who remain blissfully unaware of where their hard earned dollars, pounds or euros are actually going.
That’s why the state-corporate fraudsters, murderers and liars who wrap themselves in the language of freedom and democracy have been getting away with it for so long. Sadly, that’s why they continue to do so
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-lies-of-democracy-and-the-language-of-deceit/5319515
In an increasingly media-driven age, language is everything and is often used by officialdom to tyrannise meaning. With the deaths of millions on its hands since 1945, the US has become the world’s number one terror state. By the 1980s, former CIA man John Stockwell had put the figure at six million. As a recent article has indicated, from mass bombing in Southeast Asia to employing death squads in South America, the US military and the CIA have been directly and indirectly responsible for an updated figure of an estimated ten million deaths (1). But it’s not called mass murder these days. Ironically, the US has hijacked the word ‘terror’ to justify its brand of tyranny through a war on terror.
You can also add to that ten million, countless others whose lives have been sacrificed on the altar of corporate profit, which did not rely on the military to bomb peoples and countries into submission, but on a certain policy. It’s not browbeating. It’s structural adjustment.
As a result, hundreds of thousands of Indian farmers have taken their own lives over the past decade and a half largely as a result of US agribusiness manipulating global commodity prices courtesy of policies enacted on its behalf by the US government or due to the corporate monopoly, or frontier technology, of terminator seeds that also landed farmers in debt which was just too much for them to bear (2).
The plight of Indian farmers is not unique. How many lives have been cut short across the world because of the inherent structural violence or silent killing of the everyday seemingly benign functioning of predatory capitalism? The built-in inequalities of the system have effectively stolen years from people’s lives, the health from their bodies, the livelihoods from their hands, the water from their taps and food from their plates. From the UK to Africa, the subjugated classes – the now often discarded economic fodder, the cannon fodder during times of war or the returning heroes to be thrown overboard by the system on coming home, the people who are to be manipulated and exploited at will via bogus notions of nationalism or the national interest – have had their lives cut short or stripped bare of opportunities due to the hardships imposed by the iron fist of capitalism (3).
The appropriation of wealth through a system that funnels it from bottom to top via a process of accumulation by dispossession (4) is celebrated as growth, prosperity, and freedom of choice, despite evidence that, from Greece to Spain, the reality for the majority has been increasing poverty, the stripping away of choice and misery.
You wouldn’t know much about this if you just used the mainstream media for information, though. Sure, you may have been told to tighten your belt because we are all in it together and must make some sacrifices in these difficult economic times.
And just for good measure, as much of the country (any country) is thrown onto the scraphead because it is surplus to requirements now that their jobs have been outsourced abroad, we simply must attack Mali, Syria, Libya, Iran (the list goes on) because not to do so would let the evil-doers take over the world. And then where would we be without such high-minded notions? It’s not resource plunder. It’s humanitarianism.
Well, we would be precisely where we are right now because the evil-doers are already in control and waging war not only on the people of those countries just mentioned, but on the people within their own countries too via the tools of surveillance, the penal system, the comotosing effects of spymaster imported illegal drugs or the infotainment industry and the barrage of legislation that is serving to strip away civil liberties. The game is up, the dominant Western economy (the US) is broken beyond repair (5). Imperialism and militarism won’t save it, but dissent won’t be allowed.
And as private bankers entrap us all even further via their licence to print and loan currencies to national governments then also loan them the interest on it that spirals out of hand so it can never be paid back (6), they are able to line their pockets even further by buying up national assets on the cheap from the countries they bankrupted in the first place. It’s not racketeering. It’s austerity.
“And now they’re coming for your social security. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all sooner or later because they own this place.” Gorge Carlin, writer, critic and comedian.
And where is the mainstream media in all of this? Where are those journalists whose claim to respectability is their rigid professionalism, their accountability, their objectivity? If you can call professionalism, accountability and objectivity being in the pocket of and not wishing to offend advertising interests, officialdom, lobbyists or corporate think tanks then they are paragons of absolute virtue!
Peddling their high salaried lies, they have failed and continue to fail the public. By shining their dim ‘investigative’ light on ‘parliamentary procedures’, personalities, the rubber stamping of policies and the inane machinations of party politics, they merely serve to maintain and perpetuate the status quo and keep the public in the dark as to the unaccountable self-serving power broking and unity of interests that enable Big Oil, Big Banking, Big Pharma, Big Agra and the rest of them to keep bleeding us all dry.
Looking back to the BBC’s reporting of the NATO bombing of Libya provides quite revealing insight into the mainstream media. The coverage was disgracefully one-sided. Is the public to pay for a ‘public service’ broadcaster in order to be misled and for it to secure our compliance for illegal state-corporate policies? There was little analysis of ‘mission’ drift’ or of where the insurgents where getting their arms from despite a UN-sanctioned arms embargo. Much less of NATO’s moral right to bomb a path into Tripoli. No talk there of what University of Johannesburg professor Chris Landsberg said was NATO’s violation of international law or of the 200 prominent African figures who accused western nations of subverting international law.
On the other hand, though, what we are served courtesy of the mainstream media each time Britain decides to wage war is a tasty dish of nationalistic sentiment and the old colonial mentality of ‘our boys’ going out ‘there’ to help civilise the barbarians.
But that’s the role of the media: to help reinforce and reproduce the material conditions of an exploitative and divisive social system on a daily basis. It’s called having a compliant, toothless media. It’s liberal democracy. That’s the role not only of the media, but the education system and the political system too.
And that’s why former British PM was some years ago told by his financial masters to sell of what was laughingly regarded as ‘the nation’s gold’ at a knock down price on behalf of bankers’ (not the nation’s) interests without being held up to genuine public scrutiny. Some say that was the first ‘bail out’ (7). That’s why taxpayers’ money, unbeknown to most of the taxpayers, is being used unaccountably and undemocratically to help prop up banks and to topple various countries and bring death and destruction to thousands via ‘covert ops’. Covert – hidden from the public who remain blissfully unaware of where their hard earned dollars, pounds or euros are actually going.
That’s why the state-corporate fraudsters, murderers and liars who wrap themselves in the language of freedom and democracy have been getting away with it for so long. Sadly, that’s why they continue to do so
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-lies-of-democracy-and-the-language-of-deceit/5319515
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You don't get to set the rules for how I answer.
KAL 007 was unfortunately caught between the tensions of two superpowers that did not trust each other. Whether it was an intentional breach of Russian security or whether it simply strayed off-course due to a faulty guidance system, that truth will never be known.
That's my answer.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I appreciate your perspective, but I do not agree with it by any stretch of the imagination.
It's MSM meme, not truth.
Countless Iraqs are dead .. but you don't see the evil behind that.
Question: Where did Saddam get his chemical weapons?
Everything else need be said is in post 82 .. which I know you don't agree with .. which is also why it's all that need be said.
Agree to disagree is all that's left.
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blackascoal
The Force is With Me
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I suggest that you look at this that I posted about the Moon landings especially from 11:00 onwards.
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...ve-Never-EVER-Been-Faked-The-Definitive-Proof
von_noobie
Verified User
Yea BAC, The US manipulating world markets through agriculture using policies and the like? Not likely. Australia has a better chance of doing that then the US as most of our agriculture is exported while the majority in the US is kept there to feed the larger population. Just because one region suffers farm wise does not mean it's because the US did it, Simply could be poor farm land, or poor farming techniques.
I think I may just give this thread up, BAC appears to be firmly in his view's and try and debate them he comes out with even more crazy unfounded views.. Attacking Syria? Shit the main stream media must not be filming there seeing all those invisible US plans dropping bombs
I think I may just give this thread up, BAC appears to be firmly in his view's and try and debate them he comes out with even more crazy unfounded views.. Attacking Syria? Shit the main stream media must not be filming there seeing all those invisible US plans dropping bombs
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Yea BAC, The US manipulating world markets through agriculture using policies and the like? Not likely. Australia has a better chance of doing that then the US as most of our agriculture is exported while the majority in the US is kept there to feed the larger population. Just because one region suffers farm wise does not mean it's because the US did it, Simply could be poor farm land, or poor farming techniques.
I think I may just give this thread up, BAC appears to be firmly in his view's and try and debate them he comes out with even more crazy unfounded views.. Attacking Syria? Shit the main stream media must not be filming there seeing all those invisible US plans dropping bombs
You should have given up with your first post when you couldn't counter anything posted.
Now you resort to inventing argument to debate.
Thanks for the insight.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Dr. King would NOT have supported Obama or the Democratic Party of today.
King was as opposed to the horrors of war as he was racism.
Obama and the Democratic Party are warmongers.
King was as opposed to the horrors of war as he was racism.
Obama and the Democratic Party are warmongers.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Branding the African War: The ‘Al-Qaeda’ That Wasn’t
Nominally 'Al-Qaeda-Linked' Factions Being Spun as Part of a Huge United Force
French officials were quick to label a hostage siege in Algeria an “act of war,” while British Prime Minister David Cameron talked up a multi-decade war across Northern Africa, insisting it was vital to confront “al-Qaeda.”
Yet it’s not really “al-Qaeda” as such, despite being spun that way. Fighters in Mali belong mostly to factions like Ansar Dine and MUJAO, a pair of Salafist groups with an eye toward a strict religious theocracy in the region. The group in Algeria’s siege called itself “Those Who Sign in Blood,” and their link with al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) is unclear at best.
Yet nominal ties between those groups and AQIM has been enough of an excuse to couch the whole war as against “al-Qaeda,” much as every militant faction Pakistan seems to fight is “Taliban” whether it is in the name or not.
And even though AQIM has permission to use the al-Qaeda trademark, it is an auxiliary with a deep history going back decades, starting as the Group for Call and Combat after splitting with Algerian rebel group the Armed Islamic Group, which itself was a split-off from the Islamic Armed Movement, which fought in Algeria’s on-again, off-again civil war.
Despite its regional name, AQIM has remained intensely Algeria-centric, mostly trying to forge deals with like-minded groups in nearby nations, like their loose pact with Ansar Dine. The groups didn’t necessarily get along very well in the first place, and to the extent there’s unity, it is coming as a result of the French invasion. Indeed, its seems Western policies are pushing the various factions into unifying into the huge “al-Qaeda” threat they are trying to sell the public on.
http://news.antiwar.com/2013/01/20/branding-the-african-war-the-al-qaeda-that-wasnt/
Nominally 'Al-Qaeda-Linked' Factions Being Spun as Part of a Huge United Force
French officials were quick to label a hostage siege in Algeria an “act of war,” while British Prime Minister David Cameron talked up a multi-decade war across Northern Africa, insisting it was vital to confront “al-Qaeda.”
Yet it’s not really “al-Qaeda” as such, despite being spun that way. Fighters in Mali belong mostly to factions like Ansar Dine and MUJAO, a pair of Salafist groups with an eye toward a strict religious theocracy in the region. The group in Algeria’s siege called itself “Those Who Sign in Blood,” and their link with al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) is unclear at best.
Yet nominal ties between those groups and AQIM has been enough of an excuse to couch the whole war as against “al-Qaeda,” much as every militant faction Pakistan seems to fight is “Taliban” whether it is in the name or not.
And even though AQIM has permission to use the al-Qaeda trademark, it is an auxiliary with a deep history going back decades, starting as the Group for Call and Combat after splitting with Algerian rebel group the Armed Islamic Group, which itself was a split-off from the Islamic Armed Movement, which fought in Algeria’s on-again, off-again civil war.
Despite its regional name, AQIM has remained intensely Algeria-centric, mostly trying to forge deals with like-minded groups in nearby nations, like their loose pact with Ansar Dine. The groups didn’t necessarily get along very well in the first place, and to the extent there’s unity, it is coming as a result of the French invasion. Indeed, its seems Western policies are pushing the various factions into unifying into the huge “al-Qaeda” threat they are trying to sell the public on.
http://news.antiwar.com/2013/01/20/branding-the-african-war-the-al-qaeda-that-wasnt/
von_noobie
Verified User
Warmongers? Thats every bloody American mate. When a Nation has been in conflicts for over 200 year's then it can not be put squarely on the back of one man 200 years later, Or fuck, Was that Obama that attacked the Indians??
Obama is not a warmonger, He has being choosing his battles and as to how far to support them. He wound down Iraq, His winding down Afghanistan and while his being in office there has been bigger steps to getting peace in Afghanistan, Your whole argument that he is a warmonger when he is actually winding down the number of US troop's that are in combat at any one time is completely illogical.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Let's try the civil thing again .. but let's do point by point.
1. Obama did not end the war in Iraq. The Status of Forces Agreement did. Demanded by the Iraqis and signed by George Bush.
Any questions?
2. Libya was a war of choice. It was a war without the approval of Congress.
White House to Congress: We Don't Need Your Authorization On Libya
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/15/war-power-act-congress-libya_n_877736.html
It was a war full of all kinds of blowback and still evolving consequences.
3. The war in Afghanistan could have ended long ago. We've accomplished nothing but getting a lot of people killed and a lot of money wasted.
The mission is over .. nothing was accomplished. The Taliban are still in control. Now we're down to this ..
CLINTON: NEGOTIATING WITH AL-QAEDA-BACKED TALIBAN STILL AN OPTION IN AFGHANISTAN
October 3, 2012
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton welcomed a high-level delegation from Afghanistan to the State Department. She said the goal of the meetings was to negotiate a new security agreement on the future US-Afghanistan relationship.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...ked-Taliban-is-Still-An-Option-in-Afghanistan
She looks forward to negotiating with Al Queda and the Taliban?
Analysis: The Taliban's 'momentum' has not been broken
Summary of findings
The overall level of violence in Afghanistan remains much worse than it was prior to the surge. This is true even if we measure violence using the same statistics cited by the Defense Department and ISAF as signs of progress.
In recent months, the Taliban-led insurgency has demonstrated the capacity to reverse the positive trends the Defense Department and ISAF have cited as evidence of progress. The DoD and ISAF have cited a decrease in the number of monthly "enemy-initiated attacks," as compared to the same month in the previous year, as evidence that the violence is trending downward. However, the insurgency reversed this trend in three months this year, from April to June, executing more attacks than the same months in 2011. Moreover, the year-over-year comparison used by military officials is misleading, as the overall number of attacks still remains much greater than prior to the surge.
The number of IED attacks grew substantially in 2011, and there are more IED attacks in Afghanistan today than before the surge. ISAF says that IEDs are the "principal means" the insurgents use "to execute their campaign" and cause more total civilian casualties than any other type of attack. Yet, ISAF's own data shows that the number of IED attacks increased substantially throughout much of the surge, and remains greater than prior to the surge.
The UN found that there was a "record loss of lives" in 2011 as compared to previous years. More civilians were killed and wounded in 2011, when the surge forces began coming home, than in prior years.
According to the UN, the insurgency is responsible for the overwhelming majority (more than 75%) of civilian casualties. Even as the Coalition and Afghan forces have successfully decreased the number of civilian casualties attributable to their actions, the insurgency has become more lethal.
According to the UN, the number of casualties caused by suicide bombings increased dramatically in 2011, by 80% when compared to 2010. This increase occurred despite the fact that the number of suicide attacks did not increase. Suicide bombings continue to have a disproportionate impact, causing significantly more casualties in some months than all other types of attacks, which are much more numerous, combined.
Despite gains in the south, the overall level of violence is worse than in the years prior to the surge because of what the UN calls a "geographic shift" in the conflict. The southern provinces of Helmand and Kandahar, where surge forces were primarily deployed, have seen a decrease in violence, but still remain the most violent areas overall. The decrease in violence in the south has been offset, to a large extent, by an increase in violence in the eastern provinces and elsewhere.
A full surge of forces was never carried out in the eastern provinces, meaning that the insurgency's "momentum" there was not truly confronted. The east is home to what former Defense Secretary Robert Gates has rightly called a "syndicate" of jihadist groups that includes the Taliban, al Qaeda, the Haqqani Network, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and other affiliated organizations. Al Qaeda remains particularly strong in eastern Afghanistan, despite President Obama's pledge to make sure that al Qaeda will not use the country as a safe haven once again. The surge also did not, of course, address the insurgency's headquarters across the border in Pakistan. Each of the main insurgency groups is led from Pakistan.
According to the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), more people were killed in terrorist attacks inside Afghanistan in 2011 than in each of the previous years. While the total number of terrorist attacks decreased from 2010 to 2011, the number of terrorist attacks remained much greater than in 2009, the year prior to the surge, as well as previous years.
More than two-thirds (66.9%) of Coalition fatalities have occurred since Jan. 2009, which was President Obama's first month in office. This increase in the number of fatalities is due, in part, to the increase in Coalition forces in the country and the resulting uptick in fighting. However, the Taliban-led insurgency has proven that is still capable of inflicting substantial losses on the Coalition. There is no indication that the insurgency's capacity for killing has been substantially reduced by the surge.
Finally, the surge in Afghanistan did not achieve the same reduction in violence as was experienced in Iraq following the surge there. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison as the overall level of violence in Iraq was much greater pre-surge than in Afghanistan. Still, by any reasonable measure, the level of violence in Iraq decreased substantially as a result of a surge in American-led forces and the Iraqi "awakening." The same is not true for Afghanistan, where the overall level of violence has gotten much worse.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2012/09/analysis_the_taliban.php#ixzz2IeODY0B7
.. and then there is this ..
As Afghan Forces Kill, Trust Is Also a Casualty
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/w...forces-corrode-trust.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
That would be NATO forces that they're killing.
4. Pakistan. Obama drone wars. Blown-up children. Rising anti-americanism.
5. Obama's drones attack the planet and once again America opens Pandora's Box to mass-murder.
6. Who's next? Yemen, Somolia, Mali, Pakistan, Libya again, Iran .. what other brown people do we have for the black president to blow into tiny pieces?
I have no problem with your worship of Obama .. but to suggest that this heartless ass isn't a warmonger requires quite the leap of logic.
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Yet if somebody posted something from World News Daily aka WingNutDaily, you'd be all over it like a cheap suit and deservedly so!
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How many Russian planes that were blown off course were shot down by the US military?