Record crops from organic farming

Timshel

New member
http://m.guardiannews.com/global-development/2013/feb/16/india-rice-farmers-revolution

"Farmers use less seeds, less water and less chemicals but they get more without having to invest more. This is revolutionary," said Dr Surendra Chaurassa from Bihar's agriculture ministry. "I did not believe it to start with, but now I think it can potentially change the way everyone farms. I would want every state to promote it. If we get 30-40% increase in yields, that is more than enough to recommend it."
 
If it produces more and can increase profits, there would be no need for the State to promote it. Why are you such a Statist? Do you think they would not be able to figger out what is in their best interest without the benevolent State to point them in the right direction?

Oh what would anyone do without "uber smart" liberals like yourself pointing us in the right direction. Should we genuflect now or wait until you deliver us to nirvana?
 
If it produces more and can increase profits, there would be no need for the State to promote it. Why are you such a Statist? Do you think they would not be able to figger out what is in their best interest without the benevolent State to point them in the right direction?

Oh what would anyone do without "uber smart" liberals like yourself pointing us in the right direction. Should we genuflect now or wait until you deliver us to nirvana?

I was waiting for some chickenshit to come express the knee jerk reaction. "Oh no, change is scary this must be some nefarious plot of the 'socialists' to turn our children gay." Lol

By promote, this guy may simply mean an education/training program sharing the information with farmers. It's nothing new and does not need to be costly or heavy handed.

It might be necessary because there are no economic interests pushing it like those that might push the farmers to buy more seeds, pesticides, herbicides and other things pushed by government and industry.

It does not have to be the government but as of now there does not seem to be any market institutions providing the service, not here and probably less likely in India. Instead there are government institutions promoting other techniques.
 
I was waiting for some chickenshit to come express the knee jerk reaction. "Oh no, change is scary this must be some nefarious plot of the 'socialists' to turn our children gay." Lol

By promote, this guy may simply mean an education/training program sharing the information with farmers. It's nothing new and does not need to be costly or heavy handed.

It might be necessary because there are no economic interests pushing it like those that might push the farmers to buy more seeds, pesticides, herbicides and other things pushed by government and industry.

It does not have to be the government but as of now there does not seem to be any market institutions providing the service, not here and probably less likely in India. Instead there are government institutions promoting other techniques.

Boy, it really hurt your Statist feewings didn't I? Putting your homophobic tendencies aside for a second. If it is a better market option, the farmers will figger it out. You are the one claiming nefarious plots keeping your precious new fangled process a hidden secret.

Trust the market, it is always right. You statists? Not so much puddin.
 
Boy, it really hurt your Statist feewings didn't I? Putting your homophobic tendencies aside for a second. If it is a better market option, the farmers will figger it out. You are the one claiming nefarious plots keeping your precious new fangled process a hidden secret.

Trust the market, it is always right. You statists? Not so much puddin.

No hurt on my part. No, I did not claim there was a nefarious plot to hide the information. I said it is not in the economic interests of those selling seeds or pesticides to promote it.

I am not invested in this process, douchebag. It's interesting to me. If it works, great! But I don't gain anything from the process itself.

As I mentioned, there don't seem to be any functioning market institutions disseminating this information. Instead governments are teaching other techniques, that might lead to more external costs and less productivity.

You are just a chickenshit afraid of change. You do not understand free markets or support them.
 
No hurt on my part. No, I did not claim there was a nefarious plot to hide the information. I said it is not in the economic interests of those selling seeds or pesticides to promote it.

I am not invested in this process, douchebag. It's interesting to me. If it works, great! But I don't gain anything from the process itself.

As I mentioned, there don't seem to be any functioning market institutions disseminating this information. Instead governments are teaching other techniques, that might lead to more external costs and less productivity.

You are just a chickenshit afraid of change. You do not understand free markets or support them.

I don't give two shits either way. Let the farmers figger it out and stop being a statist. Oh let me guess you are a wannabe pretend Libertarian right? My guess is that like most libertarians you just want to smoke pot
 
I don't give two shits either way. Let the farmers figger it out and stop being a statist. Oh let me guess you are a wannabe pretend Libertarian right? My guess is that like most libertarians you just want to smoke pot

Again, there are already state interventions here. This has nothing to do with whether or not those should exist but what they should promote. You only care about your knee jerk stupidity and preventing change. A free market would be far too dynamic for a chickenshit like you, which is why you oppose it.
 
Again, there are already state interventions here. This has nothing to do with whether or not those should exist but what they should promote. You only care about your knee jerk stupidity and preventing change. A free market would be far too dynamic for a chickenshit like you, which is why you oppose it.

So I say I support the free market and you interpret that to mean that I do not?

Yep you are a libtard
 
So I say I support the free market and you interpret that to mean that I do not?

Yep you are a libtard

You don't. You support knee jerk reaction. Again, this is not about whether the government should educate farmers. They are doing so whether you like it or not. This is about what they should teach. Since you automatically associate anything new with the left you decided to attack.

But there is really no reason a market advocate would find this news troubling. I certainly did not present this to suggest the government should force farmers to adopt the techniques and the fellow in the article quoted was not suggesting any such thing. That they were able to return big yields without the many external costs associated with many modern techniques, anyone that hopes to find market solutions should welcome this news.

They are going to educate farmers one way or the other and that is not really the point here.
 
The record crops in this region seem to say you can.

a season of good weather does not become a farming method......the article does not say if neighbors who did not engage in organic gardening also had record crops......

Sumant Kumar was overjoyed when he harvested his rice last year. There had been good rains in his village of Darveshpura

besides, the article overlooks one important factor......it states that the method requires more hand labor......this means that more people need to derive their living off the same number of acres of land.....
 
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you cannot raise enough food on available land to feed the world if you use organic methods.....

Interesting point. However speaking only for Europe and specifically the UK, something like half of all food supplied to supermarkets is discarded. Sound crazy? Yes it is crazy. Supermarkets will not sell tomatoes that are not round, despite the fact that the 'perfect' fruit are devoid of taste. Supermarkets demand identical apples and pears and impose (though not quite so much now) sell by and use by dates which are completely arbitrary. So a from a ton (Am) of apples half a ton is discarded, and the remaing half ton must make the profit required of a full ton. Plus the mark ups of food items are now inestimably greater than they were twenty or thirty years ago. - Up to 400% on some lines!
Supermarkets now dictate prices to suppliers. A friend who supplies produce to supermarkets received a letter which, in paraphrase said that they would be deducting 10% from each invoice if he wished to continue as a 'partner' of the company!
Result of all this? Horsemeat in burgers all over Europe - and now global brands such as Nestle are involved.
Suppliers will not work for nothing. They must make a profit but the Walmarts and the Tescos see suppliers, particularly 'small' suppliers as lucky to make a loss! And they dont give a damn if those suppliers cheat.
Let's say that again. Despite the perfect toothy smiles and MadMen copy, major supermarkets dont give two shits for the quality of the food they sell. Until, that is, something nasty happens and they get caught.
 
Also, the soil is damaged by many conventioonal farming techniques, so in the long run organic farming is more efficient.

what a strange argument.......soil damage may certainly be a factor in stewardship and sustainability, but it has nothing at all to do with efficiency....shucks, simply figuring in the man hours necessary to prove to the government that you should be allowed to call your produce "organic" destroys any possible "efficiency"..........

I have a friend who sells chicken shit.....dried, pelleted chicken shit from a massive organic egg farm......organic farmers love him, because he can provide documentation that his chicken shit meets all government requirements for "organic" farming use.......people ship his chicken shit from Michigan to Oregon......does that sound efficient to you?......
 
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what a strange argument.......soil damage may certainly be a factor in stewardship and sustainability, but it has nothing at all to do with efficiency....shucks, simply figuring in the man hours necessary to prove to the government that you should be allowed to call your produce "organic" destroys any possible "efficiency"..........

The contentional farming methods are terrible for the soil. That is why increasing amounts of chemicals must be added to the soils to make stuff grow. Not only is our soil worse, but the chemicals leaching into our water supply is increasing steadily.

Proving it to the gov't is not a concern to me. The methods of farming are a concern.

Things like the fact that 70-80% of the antibiotics used in the country go to farm animals. If that doesn't worry you, you aren't paying attention.
 
a season of good weather does not become a farming method......the article does not say if neighbors who did not engage in organic gardening also had record crops......



besides, the article overlooks one important factor......it states that the method requires more hand labor......this means that more people need to derive their living off the same number of acres of land.....

As for your point on "one good season"...

That might have been the end of the story had Sumant's friend Nitish not smashed the world record for growing potatoes six months later. Shortly after Ravindra Kumar, a small farmer from a nearby Bihari village, broke the Indian record for growing wheat. Darveshpura became known as India's "miracle village", Nalanda became famous and teams of scientists, development groups, farmers, civil servants and politicians all descended to discover its secret.

It was not just one season.

If it stated the fact that it can be labor intensive then how did it overlook it? In many places labor is not as costly. But it also notes...

But some larger farmers in Bihar say it is not labour intensive and can actually reduce time spent in fields. "When a farmer does SRI the first time, yes it is more labour intensive," says Santosh Kumar, who grows 15 hectares of rice and vegetables in Nalanda. "Then it gets easier and new innovations are taking place now."

I don't really understand why conservatives feel the need to dismiss innovations that improve productivity and reduce external costs.
 
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