Obama Renews Offer to Cut Social Safety Net in Big Budget Deal

I like BAC because he places me in the unique position of always defending Obama.

I don't think there's evidence that Obama takes any stand other than the traditional Democratic position on SS, which is to preserve it as it is and where any deviation to said stand constitutes a compromise of some sort. He neither wishes for cuts and age extensions, nor does he wish for reform such as privatization schemes.
 
LMAO

And this guy has the balls to call anyone else a moron. If this post was found 50 years from now, they would be stupefied...and murderous.

Really? They would be stupefied that someone tried to prevent idiots like you from putting them in debt? Or would they be glad someone at least tried to stop morons like you from doing so?

As for climate change, again, the science is not behind you. The fear mongers computer models have consistently blown up. Which is why they got idiots like you to go along with 'climate change' rather than their previous 'man made global warming'. Now they can get idiots like you to think every weather occurrence is due to man.

https://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq/how-much-has-global-temperature-risen-last-100-years

Can't help but notice that even though C02 levels have continued to rise... global temperatures have not... for almost 15 years now...
 
I like BAC because he places me in the unique position of always defending Obama.

I don't think there's evidence that Obama takes any stand other than the traditional Democratic position on SS, which is to preserve it as it is and where any deviation to said stand constitutes a compromise of some sort. He neither wishes for cuts and age extensions, nor does he wish for reform such as privatization schemes.

I like you because you post without the stupid .. and it gives me the opportunity to counter what you think of Obama.

Why Democrats Must Break With Obama on Social Security Cuts

There are a lot of complicated ways in which to describe the schemes being floated by President Obama and congressional Republicans to abandon the traditional Consumer Price Index in favor of the so-called “chained-CPI” scheme. But there is nothing complicated about the reality that changing the calculations on which cost-of-living increases for Social Security recipients are based has the potential to dramatically reduce the buying power of Americans who rely on this successful and stable federal program.

So the word for what is being proposed is “cut”—as in: President Obama and congressional Republicans are proposing to cut Social Security.

“This is a cut affecting every single beneficiary—widows, orphans, people with disabilities and many others. It is a cut which hurts the most those who are most vulnerable: the oldest of the old, those disabled at the youngest ages, and the poorest of the poor. Perhaps fittingly, this will be done during the holiday season, when the American people are distracted,” says Nancy Altman, the founding co-director of the advocacy group Social Security Works. “They will cut Social Security not openly but by stealth—through a cruel cut known colloquially as the chained CPI.”

This is what Democrats—and most Republicans—said during the recently finished campaign that they would never do.

If Obama cuts the deal, he will, in the words of CREDO political director Becky Bond, be engaging in a “massive betrayal” of his own campaign commitments, and of the voters who reelected him barely a month ago.

The question is whether the president’s backers will back the betrayal.

The only responsible response is to say “No!”

The American Association of Retired People has does just that, rejecting the “chained-CPI” scheme as a “dramatic benefit cut would push thousands more into poverty and result in increased economic hardship for those trying desperately to keep up with rising prices.”

In this case, AARP speaks not just for seniors but for the vast majority of voters. Sixty percent of voters say it is unacceptable to change the way Social Security benefits are calculated so that benefits increase with inflation at a slower rate than they do now, according to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll.

Needless to say, those numbers put congressional Democrats and progressive interest groups in a bind. They can look the other way as President Obama cuts a deal that cuts Social Security, or they can do what the American people expect them to do: raise their voices in loud objection—so loud that the president has no choice except to keep his campaign promises. For congressional Democrats, the stakes are much higher than they are for Obama. The president is done with elections. But the Democratic Party must compete in elections to come, and the fight that is now playing out will define whether they do so as defenders of Social Security or as a party that is always on the watch for ways to compromise with House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan and other Republicans who salivate at the prospect of weakening and eventually privatizing Social Security.

No one will be surprised that Senator Bernie Sanders, the Vermont Independent who has been a stalwart defender of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid is objecting.

“I want him to keep that promise,” Sanders says of the president’s commitment on the campaign trail and in the early stages of the fiscal-cliff negotiations to keep Social Security “off the table.” Adds Sanders: “I hope the president stays strong.”

Nor will there be much surprise with labor’s opposition.

AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka is calling on Congress “to reject any cuts to Social Security, Medicaid, or Medicare benefits, regardless of who proposes them.

That “regardless-of-who-proposes-them” stance is spreading. Rapidly.

Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown calls Obama’s “chained-CPI” proposal “terrible.” Illinois Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, an Obama campaign co-chair, says: “I hope that offer…will be reconsidered.” A frustrated Schakowsky said what every Democrat must if the party is to retain its image as the defender of Social Security: “This should be off the table.”

A lot of Democrats, many with close ties to the president, are saying the same thing.

Congressional Progressive Caucus co-chair Keith Ellison, the Minnesota Democrat who was one of Obama’s earliest and most enthusiastic backers in 2008, did the math: “The current average earned benefit for a 65 year old on Social Security is $17,134. Using chained CPI will result in a $6,000 loss for retirees in the first fifteen years of retirement and adds up to a $16,000 loss over twenty-five years. This change would be devastating to beneficiaries, especially widowed women, more than a third of whom rely on the program for 90% of their income and use every single dollar of the Social Security checks they’ve earned. This would require the most vulnerable Americans to dig further into their savings to fill the hole left by unnecessary and irresponsible cuts to Social Security.”

Ellison’s bottom line: “I am committed to standing against any benefit cuts to programs Americans rely on and tying Social Security benefits to chained CPI is a benefit cut.”

Joining Ellison in opposition were other House Democrats who played critical roles in getting Obama elected in 2008 and reelected in 2012, including Schakowsky, California Congresswoman Barbara Lee and Michigan Congressman John Conyers, who says: “Any debt deal that cuts Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid benefits is unacceptable.”

For Obama, these voices are significant. He is losing the allies who should be in the forefront of the fight to seal any deal he reaches with House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio. Without a solid base of Democratic votes in the House and Senate for it, this deal won’t be done.

And make no mistake: a fiscal-cliff compromise that compromises Social Security should not be done. Period.

That’s the message coming from the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, which as usual has moved rapidly — and effectively — to build mass opposition to a cut that will only happen if Americans are unaware of the threat.

Former US Senator Russ Feingold’s group Progressives United has partnered with MoveOn.org and leading progressive groups to develop a “whip count” that names the names of Senate Democrats who are “Weak-Kneed,” who are “Part-way there, or Wavering,” and who are “Champions” committed to opposing any deal that cuts Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security benefits.

The president has placed himself in the “Weak-Kneed” camp.

Congressional Democrats should not stumble with him.

As Senator Jeff Merkley, D-Oregon says, “We had an election, and the voters sent a message to Congress to focus on jobs and fairness—not cutting benefits for people who have worked all their lives and are now making ends meet on fixed incomes. The formula we use to adjust cost-of-living changes for seniors needs to reflect the real costs they face, not the budgetary fantasies of Washington.”

No matter who is peddling those fantasies.

Low-income, elderly women will be the hardest hit by benefit cuts. Check out Bryce Covert’s coverage here.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/171840/why-democrats-must-break-obama-social-security-cuts#

Any suggestion that Obama's approach to Social Security or Medicare is "traditionally democratic" is wayyyyyyy off base .. and many democrats will attest to that.
 
http://reason.com/blog/2012/10/15/a-16-year-pause-in-global-warming

'The new data confirms the existence of a pause in global warming,’ Professor Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Science at America’s Georgia Tech university, told me yesterday.


Climate models are very complex, but they are imperfect and incomplete. Natural variability [the impact of factors such as long-term temperature cycles in the oceans and the output of the sun] has been shown over the past two decades to have a magnitude that dominates the greenhouse warming effect.


‘It is becoming increasingly apparent that our attribution of warming since 1980 and future projections of climate change needs to consider natural internal variability as a factor of fundamental importance.’


Professor Phil Jones, director of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, who found himself at the centre of the ‘Climategate’ scandal over leaked emails three years ago, would not normally be expected to agree with her. Yet on two important points, he did.


The data does suggest a plateau, he admitted, and without a major El Nino event – the sudden, dramatic warming of the southern Pacific which takes place unpredictably and always has a huge effect on global weather – ‘it could go on for a while’.


Like Prof Curry, Prof Jones also admitted that the climate models were imperfect: ‘We don’t fully understand how to input things like changes in the oceans, and because we don’t fully understand it you could say that natural variability is now working to suppress the warming. We don’t know what natural variability is doing.


Yet he insisted that 15 or 16 years is not a significant period: pauses of such length had always been expected, he said.


Yet in 2009, when the plateau was already becoming apparent and being discussed by scientists, he told a colleague in one of the Climategate emails: ‘Bottom line: the “no upward trend” has to continue for a total of 15 years before we get worried.’


But although that point has now been passed, he said that he hadn’t changed his mind about the models’ gloomy predictions: ‘I still think that the current decade which began in 2010 will be warmer by about 0.17 degrees than the previous one, which was warmer than the Nineties.’


Only if that did not happen would he seriously begin to wonder whether something more profound might be happening. In other words, though five years ago he seemed to be saying that 15 years without warming would make him ‘worried’, that period has now become 20 years.


Meanwhile, his Met Office colleagues were sticking to their guns. A spokesman said: ‘Choosing a starting or end point on short-term scales can be very misleading. Climate change can only be detected from multi-decadal timescales due to the inherent variability in the climate system.’


He said that for the plateau to last any more than 15 years was ‘unlikely’. Asked about a prediction that the Met Office made in 2009 – that three of the ensuing five years would set a new world temperature record – he made no comment. With no sign of a strong El Nino next year, the prospects of this happening are remote.​


 
It's hard for me to see entitlement advocates who continue to ignore fiscal reality as progressives.

We have seen what unsound fiscal policy does to the private sector, and how that in turn affects the elderly, needy & most vulnerable among us. Just look around today: are those citizens among us better off since 2008, or worse off?

In a way, so-called progressives who ignore this reality annoy me more than conservatives who understand the reality, and just want cuts because they don't care. I at least know where they stand.
 
It's hard for me to see entitlement advocates who continue to ignore fiscal reality as progressives.

We have seen what unsound fiscal policy does to the private sector, and how that in turn affects the elderly, needy & most vulnerable among us. Just look around today: are those citizens among us better off since 2008, or worse off?

In a way, so-called progressives who ignore this reality annoy me more than conservatives who understand the reality, and just want cuts because they don't care. I at least know where they stand.

That's okay, I annoy people way worse than this. And fiscally conservative democrats annoy the crap out of me too. I still like you though.
 
It's hard for me to see entitlement advocates who continue to ignore fiscal reality as progressives.

We have seen what unsound fiscal policy does to the private sector, and how that in turn affects the elderly, needy & most vulnerable among us. Just look around today: are those citizens among us better off since 2008, or worse off?

In a way, so-called progressives who ignore this reality annoy me more than conservatives who understand the reality, and just want cuts because they don't care. I at least know where they stand.

And we you brother.

If you can look at the graphs on military spending above and still come back talking about the failure of progressives ... that pretty much defines you as the status quo. Whatever is good for the MIC is obviously good for you.
 
That's okay, I annoy people way worse than this. And fiscally conservative democrats annoy the crap out of me too. I still like you though.

Yeah, I know; it's more annoyed like I would be with my sister or something. It's not terminal.

Still, it's annoying.
 
And we you brother.

If you can look at the graphs on military spending above and still come back talking about the failure of progressives ... that pretty much defines you as the status quo. Whatever is good for the MIC is obviously good for you.

If you ever catch me saying that we shouldn't stop wars or cut defense spending in a hugely significant way, let me know.

I'm more of a kitchen sink guy, though. We have to do that, AND reign in a lot of other stuff, if this whole thing is going to work. Programs have to be sustainable. We have to be able to pay for them without tax increases.
 
And we you brother.

If you can look at the graphs on military spending above and still come back talking about the failure of progressives ... that pretty much defines you as the status quo. Whatever is good for the MIC is obviously good for you.

I don't think you understand his position. He believes we should be cutting military spending, along with other areas where we over spend. In addition we have to acknowledge the vast underfunding of Medicare/Medicaid and find ways to address that. Social security needs to be fixed. That is not nearly as hard as Medicare, but it still needs to be done.
 
I don't think you understand his position. He believes we should be cutting military spending, along with other areas where we over spend. In addition we have to acknowledge the vast underfunding of Medicare/Medicaid and find ways to address that. Social security needs to be fixed. That is not nearly as hard as Medicare, but it still needs to be done.

I understand his position perfectly.

He claims that we spend too much money .. I demonstrate where we spend too much money .. he comes back talking about the failure of progressives.

Where progressives have failed is in challenging Obama.

He thinks privatization is the answer for SS.

I know where he stands .. I just don't agree with many of his stances.
 
If you ever catch me saying that we shouldn't stop wars or cut defense spending in a hugely significant way, let me know.

I'm more of a kitchen sink guy, though. We have to do that, AND reign in a lot of other stuff, if this whole thing is going to work. Programs have to be sustainable. We have to be able to pay for them without tax increases.

I agree with that .. but should we really start on the backs of seniors and those who need SS and Medicare the most?
 
I agree with that .. but should we really start on the backs of seniors and those who need SS and Medicare the most?

There are ways to fix both programs without it affecting payouts or those who actually rely on each.

But we don't have to talk about that here. I'm kinda tired anyway.
 
At the very least, SS needs to have some clearly defined form of being an actual retirement account. Any other account, be it federally or privately run, is based entirely upon how much is paid into it, and how much it has matured when you start withdrawing money. SS is being treated much more like some means-adjusted pension plan, where we just dole out money to recipients, and it doesn't matter where the money comes from.

One of the best lines ever uttered by Al Gore was that crack about putting SS into a lockbox. I think he was just referring to SS being raided and its revenues being spend on other things, but it also sounds a good deal like separate accounts.
 
I don't, in general, no. I want to see the military budget cut though.

I am trying really hard to become a typical american though. I have been working on this. I'm trying to obsess about the deficit and what we're 'doing to our children" while completely pretending that the climate change happening right in front of my face isn't happening. Plus some other stuff I am doing. When I get myself really dumbed down, I'm going to fit right in, finally.

First time in my life.

You really should read more science if you plan on trying to justify your decisions based upon your knowledge.

Even Hansen at NASA GISS has admitted the warming trend has stalled.

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2013/20130115_Temperature2012.pdf

So you are the denier now.
 
LMAO

And this guy has the balls to call anyone else a moron. If this post was found 50 years from now, they would be stupefied...and murderous.

sorry, Darla, but you really ARE a moron....did you really think no one was going to have to pay it back?......
 
And we you brother.

If you can look at the graphs on military spending above and still come back talking about the failure of progressives ... that pretty much defines you as the status quo. Whatever is good for the MIC is obviously good for you.

and yet military spending is less than a quarter of federal spending overall.......do you have a graph about where the US stands in relation to the rest of the world with respect to spending on domestic matters?.......
 
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