North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

[Howey]

Ur

Now, could you explain it to 3D? He is usually bright, but today he is being obtuse.

It must be a mini stroke. Somewhere along the line he forgot how to use the quote function.

Here's the thing...religion has no place in government. Including, particularly, enjoyment of 503c tax exempt status.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Now, back to NC. It probably cannot establish a religion in light of the 14th and the doctrine of incorporation. Are we all agreed on that?

I don't know about "all" but yes, I agree with that, if by "incorpration" you're refering to Everson vs. Board of Education decision that the due process clause of the 14th ammendment applies to the States.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

What prompts us to apply the Lemon Test, and in which type of locations, again? Pretty sure it's never applied to parish schools.

No but the scope is far broader than what you are trying to imply.

 

[Phantasmal]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_v._Kurtzman

Oh, look, Martha. From the dreaded Wikipedia, the origin of the case was public funds going toward the salaries of private teachers. Hmm...

Yes, but now the Lemon Test has broader application, Lemon vs Kurtzman established the Lemon Test.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

why are you guys arguing about the Lemon case....it's old law.....Zelman controls now....

(1) that as long as aid was offered indiscriminately and could be used in private as well as other public contexts, it enjoyed the presumption of constitutionality; and (2) that as long as the aid offered resulted in independent private choices by parents from a variety of secular and religious options, it also did not offend the Establishment Clause. These two principles are the two foci around which the majority Establishment Clause jurisprudence currently revolves.

 

[Airstrip One]

I don't know about "all" but yes, I agree with that, if by "incorpration" you're refering to Everson vs. Board of Education decision that the due process clause of the 14th ammendment applies to the States.

Well, there have been a number of incorporation decisions from Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroad Co. v Chicago to McDonald v. Chicago, but yours does specifically apply to public education, so yes.

 

[Airstrip One]

Ur

It must be a mini stroke. Somewhere along the line he forgot how to use the quote function.

Here's the thing...religion has no place in government. Including, particularly, enjoyment of 503c tax exempt status.

The 1st was written for local establishments, whether it's a good idea or not.

 

[Granule]

When given power Republicans only seek to increase the power of the state. One who reasons that anything that impacts society impacts them and justifies a law, shows themselves as supporters of a totalitarian government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/north-carolina-religion-bill_n_3003401.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=2462770,b=facebook

Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.

The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.

It's a good move, and it's right for the country.

 

[Timshel]

Good thing NC isn't Congress, then - which is the whole whole point of the Establishment Clause. MA and CT could establish Congregationalism, PA and RI could guarantee religious freedom across the board, and people could live free provided the Federal government didn't act with a respect to an establishment of religion.

Wrong again see the 14th amendment.

 

[Don Quixote]

When given power Republicans only seek to increase the power of the state. One who reasons that anything that impacts society impacts them and justifies a law, shows themselves as supporters of a totalitarian government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/north-carolina-religion-bill_n_3003401.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=2462770,b=facebook

Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.

The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.

maybe they should try to secede from the union again...with about the same results

yep, the nut jobs are out again

oh well

 

[Airstrip One]

Wrong again see the 14th amendment.

Yeah, I got there, if you followed the thread. However, the Court has never incorporated the whole Bil of Rights, so it's never a slam dunk in these cases.

 

[Damocles]

What would make it unconstitutional is Section 1 of Amendment 14.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The bolded portion of this particular Amendment made it so your Federal Rights passed through to the States as well. Therefore State religion is right out.

See: Cantwell v. Connecticut (1940), the Court ruled in Cantwell v. Connecticut that a local ordinance banning solicitation violated the religious rights of the Jehovah’s Witnesses that brought the suit. Even though this was a local ordinance, falling under a state’s jurisdiction, the Court ruled that the First Amendment was "incorporated" by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and thus that the solicitation law should be overturned.

 

[Don Quixote]

What would make it unconstitutional is Section 1 of Amendment 14.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The bolded portion of this particular Amendment made it so your Federal Rights passed through to the States as well. Therefore State religion is right out.

See: Cantwell v. Connecticut (1940), the Court ruled in Cantwell v. Connecticut that a local ordinance banning solicitation violated the religious rights of the Jehovah’s Witnesses that brought the suit. Even though this was a local ordinance, falling under a state’s jurisdiction, the Court ruled that the First Amendment was "incorporated" by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and thus that the solicitation law should be overturned.

do they have the right to enter private property without permission?

however, i found a novel way of discouraging the Jehovah's witnesses, i answer the door naked with a broadsword in hand pointed at them...they never came back!

 

[SmarterthanYou]

When given power Politicians only seek to increase the power of the state.

fixed that for you. the rest of your article is craptastic petty whining.

 

[Phantasmal]

do they have the right to enter private property without permission?

however, i found a novel way of discouraging the Jehovah's witnesses, i answer the door naked with a broadsword in hand pointed at them...they never came back!

I wore them out, studied with them, then started to ask question after question, did the same with the LDS. Funny thing, they don't knock on my door, anymore.

 

[Don Quixote]

I wore them out, studied with them, then started to ask question after question, did the same with the LDS. Funny thing, they don't knock on my door, anymore.

good for you, however, i like my way better, i am too lazy to do it your way and seldom indulge in theological debate anyway

i have not had a visit from either the Jehovah's witnesses or the lds for years

 

[zappasguitar]

That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. You'd turn the entire Constitution into a house of cards that would collapse the first time some anal retentive type doesn't get their way.

It comes down to them not wanting to admit I was right.

They simply are incapable of admitting as much.

 

[Howey]

Question. Just who decides what this religion would be?

 

[Howey]

And what's next, South Carolina?

Official state race?

 

[Airstrip One]

It comes down to them not wanting to admit I was right.

They simply are incapable of admitting as much.

What's all this about? Did you post earlier in this thread, or are you referencing something else?