Another Day-Another child falls thanks to gun nuts selfish refusal to compromise.

SmarterthanYou said:
yes, really. 'shall not be infringed' means something. congress has NO POWER to disarm the militia. THAT is what 'we the people' ratified.
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no one said anything about disarming. You are suggesting that government somehow can well regulate a militia without even having a clue who is a member thereof, and not being able to forbid certain people - lunatics, felons - from arming themselves on the pretense of becoming members of said well regulated militia. How is government supposed to exert any level of regulation upon this militia in that case, let alone do it well?
 
maineman said:
so "regulate" actually means nothing. "Well regulated" is a phrase without practical meaning or significance to you.
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in the context of the 2nd Amendment, it has the same practical meaning that the founders viewed it in. when they wanted a watch fixed, they asked the watchmaker to 'regulate' it. when they wanted something to work right, they 'regulated' it.

maineman said:
In your view, anyone can buy and own and carry any type of firearm at any time anywhere and not have to answer to anyone in advance of their killing someone else.
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you're making a hyperbolic statement here. why does it have to be 'in advance of killing someone'??? why can't I carry my handgun anywhere at anytime in case someone with evil intent tries to make me a victim? Do you think someone having a 'permit' is going to magically make them NEVER kill anyone out of malice???

maineman said:
Again... are there any other phrases in the constitution that you completely and utterly disregard?
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this is an invalid question.
 
maineman said:
no one said anything about disarming. You are suggesting that government somehow can well regulate a militia without even having a clue who is a member thereof, and not being able to forbid certain people - lunatics, felons - from arming themselves on the pretense of becoming members of said well regulated militia. How is government supposed to exert any level of regulation upon this militia in that case, let alone do it well?
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again, congress has the responsibility to arm and train the militia (we the people). they also have the power to call forth the militia. this militia is VOLUNTARY. congress has NO POWER to disarm the militia though. how hard is that for you to understand?
 
cawacko said:
What legislation was there a lack of compromise on that you feel would have prevented this incident?
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It doesn't matter.

It's been demonstrated time and again those who are pro 2nd amendment aren't willing to entertain even the tiniest, most innocuous of reforms.

Whatever I or anyone else puts forward will IMMEDIATELY get shouted down or be subject to never ending ridicule so why should I waste my time and open myself up to more taunts and derision?
 
Steelplate said:
Yeah....I disagree with that too. When I think of gun nuts, I think of people who are so paranoid that they feel that home invasions are such an issue that they feel they need to keel a loaded pistol at the ready at all times, people who feel so scared that they feel the need to carry in public, and those that feel that any ideas are a precursors to rounding up weapons in some kind of Communist Conspiracy.

Oh yeah....and those that are itching for armed rebellion against this country.

I am a gun owner...I keep my guns safely tucked away in a secure gun safe which I have bolted to the floor. The only time I take them out is when I am going to the sportsman's club, or to go hunting.
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maineman said:
no...not everyone. I personally think that any parent who is stupid enough to give a five year old a deadly weapon as a birthday present and then leave him unsupervised while he kills his baby sister with it should probably do humanity a big favor and not pop out any MORE little morons.
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How bout that?

TWO pretty spot on definitions of a "gun nut"!

For a Steelers fan you ain't so bad!
 
ZappasGuitar said:
It doesn't matter.

It's been demonstrated time and again those who are pro 2nd amendment aren't willing to entertain even the tiniest, most innocuous of reforms.

Whatever I or anyone else puts forward will IMMEDIATELY get shouted down or be subject to never ending ridicule so why should I waste my time and open myself up to more taunts and derision?
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LMAO... so you are too scared to actually discuss this issue, yet YOU are the one that started the thread. Add in the fact that you started it in your typical bullshit fashion and it is not surprising people mock you.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
again, congress has the responsibility to arm and train the militia (we the people). they also have the power to call forth the militia. this militia is VOLUNTARY. congress has NO POWER to disarm the militia though. how hard is that for you to understand?
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Ummm...Congress effectively "disarmed" the militia with the Militia Act of 1903. How many times has this been explained to you?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
It doesn't matter.

It's been demonstrated time and again those who are pro 2nd amendment aren't willing to entertain even the tiniest, most innocuous of reforms.

Whatever I or anyone else puts forward will IMMEDIATELY get shouted down or be subject to never ending ridicule so why should I waste my time and open myself up to more taunts and derision?
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Dude, you started off your thread taunting people so it doesn't really give you much ground to stand on complaining about people taunting you back. If you want a real discussion about guns how about not calling people 'gun nuts' to start off with? It's like starting off a thread with 'another hateful tightie righty'. What kind of response do you think that's going to get?

You talk about compromise for gun laws but don't mention what legislation could have prevented this. We can require that people lock up their guns and not leave them out around children but unless someone from the government is constantly checking everyone's home it's still up to the individuals to follow the law. We can ask for harsher penalties for parents when incidents like this occur but that's not what has been debated in Congress.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
how many times do you need it explained to you that an act of congress does NOT alter the constitution?
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It didn't. It made militia members National Guardsmen, enlisted them in the Army as reservists, and ceased funding to state militias in order to take the power away from state governors to create their own "armies", effectively shutting them down.

What you have now in Texas is merely the Texas Militia, neither nationally recognized nor armed.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
this is not about political gain, this is about the costs associated with a fundamental right. A cost that the framers felt was acceptable in order to maintain freedom.
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Exactly!

The Founding Fathers knew that a few hundred innocent children getting gunned down each year by their "responsible gun owner" parents is an acceptable COST associated with our right to carry firearms.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... so you are too scared to actually discuss this issue, yet YOU are the one that started the thread. Add in the fact that you started it in your typical bullshit fashion and it is not surprising people mock you.
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Supertool you support kids with rifles shooting the baby sister.
Not shocking as you rip off old ladies for a living
 
SmarterthanYou said:
you would have to show me any documentation that proves that the PEOPLE ratified the bill of rights with the understanding that 'well regulated' meant government controlled instead of well trained. I don't think you can do that, yet there are NUMEROUS pieces of evidence that shows the founders AND the people understood the 'well regulated' part meant to be well trained when they ratified it.
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Riiiiiiiiiight.

So despite the fact that, according to you, they meant well "trained", the Founding Fathers used a completely different word, "regulated", in the amendment itself...why is that?
 
Damocles said:
Actually that is happening now regardless of the gun nuts being incapable of passing laws to ban guns. Why do you think the murder rate, using guns, in Australia went up 300% after they banned guns?
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Way to use some deceptive numbers to spread your bullshit.

From Snopes:

"Then we have the claim that, in the state of Victoria alone, "homicides with firearms are now up 300%." This is another example of how misleading the numbers can be when the underlying numbers are not provided: Victoria, a state with a population of over 4 and 1/2 million people in 1997, experienced 7 firearm related homicides in 1996 and 19 firearm related homicides in 1997. (An increase of 171% not 300.) An additional 12 homicides is not statistically significant, nor does this single year statistic reflect long term trends. Moreover, the opening paragraph mixes two very different types of statistics-number of homicides vs. percentage of homicides committed with firearms. In the later case it should be noted that the Australia-wide percentage of homicides committed with a firearm is now lower than it was before the gun buy back program, and LOWER than it has been at any point in the past decade. (In the former case, the absolute number of firearm homicides in Australia in 98-99 was the lowest in the past TEN years.)"

Damo spouting NRA propaganda...what a surprise.
 
maineman said:
so, with no ability to actually "regulate" the militia, that phrase in the constitution is meaningless? Just a pipe dream? Are there any other pipe dreams in the constitution that you believe in? How can the government even know who is IN the militia and who is supposed to show up when the militia is called into service, I wonder?
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You don't understand.

STY's got these incredible powers that allow him to travel back in time and ask the Founding Fathers what they meant...that's how he knows they MEANT "trained" even though the word used in the 2nd amendment is "regulated".
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... so you are too scared to actually discuss this issue, yet YOU are the one that started the thread. Add in the fact that you started it in your typical bullshit fashion and it is not surprising people mock you.
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Another thoughtful poster willing to put away the taunts and derision and discuss the subject with civility...

I learned a long time ago there is no discussing the issue with you gun nuts...I merely created this thread to call attention to the fact that as long as people love their guns more than they do their children, this type of senseless death will continue...nothing more.

I will continue to highlight these senseless deaths until we see some change.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Another thoughtful poster willing to put away the taunts and derision and discuss the subject with civility...

I learned a long time ago there is no discussing the issue with you gun nuts...I merely created this thread to call attention to the fact that as long as people love their guns more than they do their children, this type of senseless death will continue...nothing more.

I will continue to highlight these senseless deaths until we see some change.
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fwiw the kid did not die
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Another thoughtful poster willing to put away the taunts and derision and discuss the subject with civility...

I learned a long time ago there is no discussing the issue with you gun nuts...I merely created this thread to call attention to the fact that as long as people love their guns more than they do their children, this type of senseless death will continue...nothing more.

I will continue to highlight these senseless deaths until we see some change.
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Read your original post. Are you honestly telling us you don't see the taunts and derision YOU began the thread with?

If you wish for a civil discussion... starting out as you did is not the best method of achieving that result.
 
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