Benghazi - The Nightmare Is Over!

Whose Foreign Policy Is It?

For those with eyes to see, the daylight between the foreign policies of George W. Bush and Barack Obama has been shrinking ever since the current president took the oath of office. But last week made it official: When the story of America’s post-9/11 wars is written, historians will be obliged to assess the two administrations together, and pass judgment on the Bush-Obama era.

The death of Osama bin Laden, in a raid that operationalized Bush’s famous “dead or alive” dictum, offered the most visible proof of this continuity. But the more important evidence of the Bush-Obama convergence lay elsewhere, in developments from last week that didn’t merit screaming headlines, because they seemed routine rather than remarkable.

One was NATO’s ongoing bombing campaign in Libya, which now barely even pretends to be confined to humanitarian objectives, or to be bound by the letter of the United Nations resolution. Another was Friday’s Predator strike inside Pakistan’s tribal regions, which killed a group of suspected militants while the world’s attention was still fixed on Bin Laden’s final hours. Another was the American missile that just missed killing Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born cleric who has emerged as a key recruiter for Al Qaeda’s Yemen affiliate.

Imagine, for a moment, that these were George W. Bush’s policies at work. A quest for regime change in Libya, conducted without even a pro forma request for Congressional approval. A campaign of remote-controlled airstrikes, in which collateral damage is inevitable, carried out inside a country where we are not officially at war. A policy of targeted assassination against an American citizen who has been neither charged nor convicted in any U.S. court.

Imagine the outrage, the protests, the furious op-eds about right-wing tyranny and neoconservative overreach. Imagine all that, and then look at the reality. For most Democrats, what was considered creeping fascism under Bush is just good old-fashioned common sense when the president has a “D” beside his name.

---

Now that Democrats have learned to stop worrying and embrace the imperial presidency, the United States lacks a strong institutional check on the tendency toward executive hubris and wartime overreach. The speed with which many once-dovish liberals rallied behind the Libyan war — at best a gamble, at worst a folly — was revealing and depressing. The absence of any sustained outcry over the White House’s willingness to assassinate American citizens without trial should be equally disquieting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/opinion/09douthat.html?_r=0

Democrats have proven themselves to be the biggest hypocrites in the country.

If Obama had invaded Iraq, democrats would be defending it.
 
How long ago was it that everyone was talking about Saddam's underground bunker, that the Germans were supposed to have built for him?

Saddam's bunker can withstand nuke attack, says its designer

The �60-million bunker was built 20 years ago, under the directions of Esser and Austrian architect, Lorenzo Buffalo, working for Boswau and Knauer of Germany.

Esser said: "I was asked [to build the bunker] as I had a lot of experience. My grandmother was responsible for Hitler's bunker under the Berlin Reich chancellery and I have continued in the family tradition."

He said he met Saddam on a number of occasions when the construction got underway in the early 1980s, including one three-hour session where the two discussed in detail the plans for the bunker.

He recalled, "If you see him, he doesn't make much of an impression. He looks like an Arab tax collector or banker. But when he speaks, you realise there is more to the man than meets the eye.


Yeah, funny stuff now....I remember Osama's bunker too, the underground city of caves, etc....there was even talk of a Gaddafi bunker once upon a time....
 
sort of like when you look at your wife across the dining room table and suddenly blurt out,"I hate my life and our relationship and I want a divorce"... you can't really go back and say, "honey... what I wanted those words to mean was more like, 'I love you and want to spend the rest of my life together'" because when you string words together in sentences they have meanings. And you can't go back, after the fact, and claim that they meant something else, or that you really meant to say something that meant something else. English is tough that way.


No one is changing any words here but you......he said exactly what he meant, what he believed, exactly what Democrats had been saying for the previous 10 years...

theres no mystery.....
 
Whose Foreign Policy Is It?

For those with eyes to see, the daylight between the foreign policies of George W. Bush and Barack Obama has been shrinking ever since the current president took the oath of office. But last week made it official: When the story of America’s post-9/11 wars is written, historians will be obliged to assess the two administrations together, and pass judgment on the Bush-Obama era.

The death of Osama bin Laden, in a raid that operationalized Bush’s famous “dead or alive” dictum, offered the most visible proof of this continuity. But the more important evidence of the Bush-Obama convergence lay elsewhere, in developments from last week that didn’t merit screaming headlines, because they seemed routine rather than remarkable.

One was NATO’s ongoing bombing campaign in Libya, which now barely even pretends to be confined to humanitarian objectives, or to be bound by the letter of the United Nations resolution. Another was Friday’s Predator strike inside Pakistan’s tribal regions, which killed a group of suspected militants while the world’s attention was still fixed on Bin Laden’s final hours. Another was the American missile that just missed killing Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born cleric who has emerged as a key recruiter for Al Qaeda’s Yemen affiliate.

Imagine, for a moment, that these were George W. Bush’s policies at work. A quest for regime change in Libya, conducted without even a pro forma request for Congressional approval. A campaign of remote-controlled airstrikes, in which collateral damage is inevitable, carried out inside a country where we are not officially at war. A policy of targeted assassination against an American citizen who has been neither charged nor convicted in any U.S. court.

Imagine the outrage, the protests, the furious op-eds about right-wing tyranny and neoconservative overreach. Imagine all that, and then look at the reality. For most Democrats, what was considered creeping fascism under Bush is just good old-fashioned common sense when the president has a “D” beside his name.

---

Now that Democrats have learned to stop worrying and embrace the imperial presidency, the United States lacks a strong institutional check on the tendency toward executive hubris and wartime overreach. The speed with which many once-dovish liberals rallied behind the Libyan war — at best a gamble, at worst a folly — was revealing and depressing. The absence of any sustained outcry over the White House’s willingness to assassinate American citizens without trial should be equally disquieting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/opinion/09douthat.html?_r=0

Democrats have proven themselves to be the biggest hypocrites in the country.

If Obama had invaded Iraq, democrats would be defending it.

I know tons of Democrats & lefties who are against Libya.

I don't know one Republican who was against Iraq.
 
I don't need to be a seer or clairvoyant. He knew that there was doubt. He had been briefed about the caveats and qualifiers in the NIE. He knew that the intelligence community was not unanimous in their thinking about Saddam's WMD's. For him to turn around and say, "THERE IS NO DOUBT", when he was well aware of plenty of doubts about the certainty of Saddam's WMD stockpiles even within his own administration, was a lie.

No wiggling out of that. it is what it is.


The Democrats didn't doubt it for 10 years.....and neither did Bush...and then in 2002....they VOTED TO PASS the war resolution in sufficient numbers....

Obviously, they still believed their OWN CLAIMS that SADDAM had WMD and was a major THREAT.

[h=1]Key Judgments (from October 2002 NIE)[/h] [h=2]Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction[/h]
[TABLE="align: right"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"] [h=1]SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL HOLDS BACKGROUND BRIEFING ON WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ

AS RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE

JULY 18, 2003[/h]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
We judge that Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade. (See INR alternative view at the end of these Key Judgments.)
We judge that we are seeing only a portion of Iraq's WMD efforts, owing to Baghdad's vigorous denial and deception efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information. We lack specific information on many key aspects of Iraq's WMD programs.
Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; in the view of most agencies, Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.

  • Iraq's growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad's capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled, from $580 million in 1998 to about $3 billion this year.
  • Iraq has largely rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.
  • Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerials vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.
  • Although we assess that Saddam does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them. Most agencies assess that Baghdad started reconstituting its nuclear program about the time that UNSCOM inspectors depart - December 1998.
How quickly Iraq will obtain its first nuclear weapon depends on when it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.

  • If Baghdad acquires sufficient fissile material from abroad it could make a nuclear weapon within several months to a year.
  • Without such material from abroad, Iraq probably would not be able to make a weapon until 2007 to 2009, owing to inexperience in building and operating centrifuge facilities to produce highly enriched uranium and challenges in procuring the necessary equipment and expertise.
    • Most agencies believe that Saddam's personal interest in and Iraq's aggressive attempts to obtain high-strength aluminum tubes for centrifuge rotor - as well as Iraq's attempts to acquire magnets, high-speed balancing machines, and machine tools - provide compelling evidence that Saddam is reconstituting a uranium enrichment effort for Baghdad's nuclear weapons program. (DOE agrees that reconstitution of the nuclear program is underway but assesses that the tubes probably are not part of the program.)
    • Iraq's efforts to re-establish and enhance its cadre of weapons personnel as well as activities at several suspect nuclear sites further indicate that reconstruction is underway.
    • All agencies agree that about 25,000 centrifuges based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire would be capable of producing approximately two weapons' worth of highly enriched uranium per year.
  • In a much less likely scenario, Baghdad could make enough fissile material for a nuclear weapon by 2005 to 2007 if it obtains suitable centrifuge tubes this year and has all the other materials and technological expertise necessary to build production-scale uranium enrichment facilities.
We assess that Baghdad has begun renewed production of mustard, sarin, GF (cyclosarin), and VX; its capability probably is more limited now than it was at the time of the Gulf War, although VX production and agent storage life probably have been improved.


  • An array of clandestine reporting reveals that Baghdad has procured covertly the types and quantities of chemicals and equipment sufficient to allow limited CW agent production hidden within Iraq's legitimate chemical industry.
  • Although we have little specific information on Iraq's CW stockpile, Saddam probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons (MT) and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW agents - much of it added in the last year.
  • The Iraqis have experience in manufacturing CW bombs, artillery rockets, and projectiles. We assess that that they possess CW bulk fills for SRBM warheads, including for a limited number of covertly stored Scuds, possibly a few with extended ranges.
We judge that all key aspects - R&D, production, and weaponization - of Iraq's offensive BW program are active and that most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf war.


  • We judge Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives.
    • Chances are even that smallpox is part of Iraq's offensive BW program
    • Baghdad probably has developed genetically engineered BW agents
  • Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability.
    • Baghdad has mobile facilities for producing bacterial and toxin BW agents; these facilities can evade detection and are highly survivable. Within three to six months * these units probably could produce an amount of agent equal to the total that Iraq produced in the years prior to the Gulf War.
Iraq maintains a small missile force and several development programs, including for a UAV probably intended to deliver biological warfare agent.

  • Gaps in Iraqi accounting to UNSCOM suggest that Saddam retains a covert force of up to a few dozen Scud-variant SRBMs with ranges of 650 to 900 km.
  • Iraq is deploying its new al-Samoud and Ababil-100 SRBMs, which are capable of flying beyond the UN-authorized 150-km range limit; Iraq has tested an al-Samoud variant beyond 150 km - perhaps as far as 300 km.
  • Baghdad's UAV's could threaten Iraq's neighbors, US forces in the Persian Gulf, and if brought close to, or into the United States, the US Homeland.
    • An Iraqi UAV procurement network attempted to procure commercially available route planning software and an associated topographic database that would be able to support targeting of the United States, according to analysis of special intelligence.
    • The Director, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance, US Air Force, does not agree that Iraq is developing UAVs primarily intended to be delivery platforms for chemical and biological warfare (CBW) agents. The small size of Iraq's new UAV strongly suggests a primary role of reconnaissance, although CBW delivery is an inherent capability.
  • Iraq is developing medium-range ballistic missile capabilities, largely through foreign assistance in building specialized facilities, including a test stand for engines more powerful than those in its current missile force.
We have low confidence in our ability to assess when Saddam would use WMD.


  • Saddam could decide to use chemical and biological warfare (CBW) preemptively against US forces, friends, and allies in the region in an attempt to disrupt US war preparations and undermine the political will of the Coalition.
  • Saddam might use CBW after an initial advance into Iraqi territory, but early use of WMD could foreclose diplomatic options for stalling the US advance.
  • He probably would use CBW when he perceived he irretrievably had lost control of the military and security situation, but we are unlikely to know when Saddam reaches that point.
  • We judge that Saddam would be more likely to use chemical weapons than biological weapons on the battlefield.
  • Saddam historically has maintained tight control over the use of WMD; however, he probably has provided contingency instructions to his commanders to use CBW in specific circumstances.
Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional or CBW against the United States, fearing that exposure of Iraqi involvement would provide Washington a stronger cause for making war.
Iraq probably would attempt clandestine attacks against the US Homeland if Baghdad feared an attack that threatened the survival of the regime were imminent or unavoidable, or possibly for revenge. Such attacks - more likely with biological than chemical agents - probably would be carried out by special forces or intelligence operatives.


  • The Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) probably has been directed to conduct clandestine attacks against US and Allied interests in the Middle East in the event the United States takes action against Iraq. The IIS probably would be the primary means by which Iraq would attempt to conduct any CBW attacks on the US Homeland, although we have no specific intelligence information that Saddam's regime has directed attacks against US territory.
Saddam, if sufficiently desperate, might decide that only an organization such as al-Qa'ida - with worldwide reach and extensive terrorist infrastructure, and already engaged in a life-or-death struggle against the United States - would perpetrate the type of terrorist attack that he would hope to conduct.


  • In such circumstances, he might decide that the extreme step of assisting the Islamist terrorists in conducting a CBW attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him.


You've been schooled by every one of my posts....EVERY ONE.....it must really damage your pride, sorry about that....
but don't blame me, blame your BDS....now you thingy can pull each others unit while you feed off of each others BDS......
I'm satisfied with everything I said.....your every post has been refuted with logic and the English language.
 
How come Boner didn't look at the email's he's "commanding" Obama to produce when he didn't want to see them back in February? Nah...they're not trying to politicize it!

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/10/wh_republicans_had_no_concerns_about_benghazi_emails/
Republican members of Congress raised no objections when they first saw internal emails detailing the evolution of the administration’s talking points on Benghazi almost two months ago, senior administration officials said in response to a question from Salon today, and House Speaker John Boehner declined to attend or send a representative to that briefing.

Lawyers with the Office of the Director of National Intelligence briefed House and Senate Intelligence Committee members in March about the emails, which ABC News released today to much hullabaloo, after officials said they would make them available to members of Congress in February.

Yesterday, Boehner called for the release of the emails, but the administration officials, who agreed to speak on a conference call with reporters only on the condition of anonymity, said today that Boehner would have seen them had he attended the briefing, to which he and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi were also invited.

On the Senate side, lawyers briefed Sen. Saxby Chambliss, the vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee, and Sen. Richard Burr, who said the briefing satisfied many of his concerns. “It answers a lot, if not all, of the questions that the committee [had] from an oversight standpoint,” he told the Hill at the time. On the House side, those briefed included Intelligence Committee Chairman Michael McCaul. Republican members in neither chamber raised substantive concerns about the emails, the official said, and were free to discuss them publicly as they were not classified.

The emails about the September 2012 attack on the diplomatic post in Libya were shared with members of Congress during negotiations over the confirmation of CIA Director John Brennan. If Republicans had had major problems with what the emails revealed, they probably would have said something at the time and not confirmed Brennan 63-34, White House spokesperson Jay Carney said during his daily press briefing this afternoon. “This is an effort to accuse the administration of hiding something that we did not hide,” Carney said.
 
sort of like when you look at your wife across the dining room table and suddenly blurt out,"I hate my life and our relationship and I want a divorce"... you can't really go back and say, "honey... what I wanted those words to mean was more like, 'I love you and want to spend the rest of my life together'" because when you string words together in sentences they have meanings. And you can't go back, after the fact, and claim that they meant something else, or that you really meant to say something that meant something else. English is tough that way.

Seems like you're speaking from personal experiance and you really shouldn't reveal so much, about yourself.
 
and ya know... Bush was surrounded by smart guys... he could have simply gotten the word out to Team Bush to not use that phrase. He could have said, "ya know, the other day I said that there is no doubt that Saddam has WMD's and, quite honestly, that is not entirely correct. Some of our intelligence analysts and authorities are not quite so sure that Saddam still has or is still making weapons of mass destruction. Others in those organizations look at the intelligence, from human sources on the ground, and from satellite imagery, and they think that those weapons are still there and that he is making more. I have listened to all of my intelligence analysts and I must say that I am more convinced by the arguments of those that say that WMD's DO still exist in Iraq, and, quite frankly, going with the other side, and then having that be wrong, might be disastrous." That would have been an accurate and honest statement by the president and I might not have agreed with him, but, at least I would have known he wasn't LYING to me. He might not have gotten the same level of public support, but, I can imagine he probably would have gotten enough to get majorities in both chambers for his silly war regardless. WHy he chose to lie and let that lie stand un-retracted is beyond me.

Since you're so knowledgeable; why don't you name one war, that the US entered, that didn't have those opposing us getting involved?
 
Bravo... you can spam the board until the twelfth of never if you like. It still doesn't change the fact that the NATURE of the lie was the statement of fact concerning absolute certainty. There was not absolute certainty, and for the president to tell America that there was, when he knew of doubts within his own administration's intelligence agencies, was a lie. You might chose to say that it was a lie that didn't really amount to much, and we can have that discussion all day. It was a lie, however, regardless of how insignificant you might think it is. The president lied. There were doubts. Some of the intelligence experts had doubts. He knew of those doubts. He made a statement of fact stating that doubts did not exist. A lie.
 
I don't need to be a seer or clairvoyant. He knew that there was doubt. He had been briefed about the caveats and qualifiers in the NIE. He knew that the intelligence community was not unanimous in their thinking about Saddam's WMD's. For him to turn around and say, "THERE IS NO DOUBT", when he was well aware of plenty of doubts about the certainty of Saddam's WMD stockpiles even within his own administration, was a lie.

No wiggling out of that. it is what it is.


And let's not forget Rumsfeld's bald faced lie to the American people on live TV:

"We know Saddam has WMD's. We know where they are."
 
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And let's not forget Rumsfeld's bald faced lie to the American people on live TV:

"We know Saddam has WMD's. We know where they are."

cuz being truthful and saying, "We THINK Saddam has WMD's and we actually THINK we MIGHT know where they MIGHT BE!" just doesn't get the old blood pumping like absolute certainty does, does it?
 
And let's not forget Rumsfeld's bald faced lie to the American people on live TV:

"We know Saddam has WMD's. We know where they are."

But of course you will forget some of the original war mongers:

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." ..:
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), 2001

and

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

and

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." .
Democratic Senator Carl Levin,
Democratic Senator Tom Daschle,
Democratic Senator John Kerry

Schooling you pinheads is like shooting fish in a barrel...
 
But of course you will forget some of the original war mongers:

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." ..:
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), 2001

and

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

and

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." .
Democratic Senator Carl Levin,
Democratic Senator Tom Daschle,
Democratic Senator John Kerry

Schooling you pinheads is like shooting fish in a barrel...

That's funny - none of those quotes calls for war, or invasion, or anything.

Do you know what the word "warmonger" means?
 
946550_10151587237647767_645603498_n.jpg
 
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