Interesting Take on Govt Leaks

From Walter Pincus

"Whoever provided the initial leak to the Associated Press in April 2012 not only broke the law but caused the abrupt end to a secret, joint U.S./Saudi/British operation in Yemen that offered valuable intelligence against al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

One goal was to get AQAP’s operational head, Fahd Mohammed Ahmed al-Quso. That happened one day before the AP story appeared.

A second goal was to find and possibly kill AQAP bombmaker Ibrahim Hassan al-Asiri, whose first underwear device almost killed Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, Saudi Arabia’s anti-terrorism chief. Soon after, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab used such a device in a failed Christmas Day bombing attempt as his Northwest Airlines flight was landing in Detroit.

The drone attack that killed Quso hadn’t occurred when AP reporters were checking out the leak and contacting government officials. Acting responsibly, the AP withheld its story for several days at the government’s request. Lives were at stake, officials said.

What happened afterward illustrates a sad state of affairs — within government (which can’t control critical secrets), the White House (which offered more information to shield itself from a wrong impression created by the AP story), politics (where every event during a presidential race becomes political fodder) and the press (which screams First Amendment at any attempt to investigate it).

There is a natural tension between journalists and the government over national security. There are many examples of administrations misusing secrecy to hide failures or promote successes. And there may be as many times when bad stories hurt clandestine operations.

Hitting targets in the United States is one of AQAP’s goals. In association with Saudi intelligence, the CIA inserted a Saudi who convinced AQAP that he wanted to be a suicide bomber. Eventually he was outfitted with Asiri’s newest device, which he was to use on a U.S. aircraft. After the device was delivered to U.S. officials, someone or several people leaked the information to the AP.

As journalists and politicians focus on what they say are too- broad subpoenas for records of 21 phone lines for AP offices and individuals, what’s lost is the damaging and criminal leak.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.’s initial comment to reporters last Tuesday that “it is within the top two or three most serious leaks that I’ve ever seen” has been rejected. Journalists have heard that over the years.

This is different.

The AP was working on a story where lives really could be at risk. Also at risk were the relationships between U.S., Saudi and British intelligence.

The AP responsibly held its story for five days when informed of national security issues. Although the news organization was informed about only part of the operation, the reality was that intelligence officials believed it had to be closed down immediately.

The AP story, when it first appeared, made no mention of how the United States obtained the new type of bomb. But by describing the event as the CIA halting an AQAP suicide-bombing plot, the story turned a clever clandestine operation into a negative political issue for the White House during the presidential campaign.

How? The AP story tied the foiling of an AQAP plot to White House press secretary Jay Carney’s statement the week before that assured “the American public that [the administration] knew of no al-Qaeda plots against the U.S. around the anniversary of bin Laden’s death.” The AP story implied that Carney’s statement was untrue. But Carney was right. This was a CIA ruse, not a terrorist-initiated plot.

Even during a “Face the Nation” appearance Sunday, AP President Gary Pruitt described the AP story as the United States thwarting “an al-Qaeda plot to place a bomb on an airliner” and Carney as being “misleading to the American public.”

From the start, the AP had placed the plot in the wrong context.

Responding after the AP story, White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan held a media backgrounder to reassure the public that the United States was somehow “in control” of the situation. That triggered other media inquiries, which led to the administration explaining the Saudi double agent and other details. The authorized leak was to control political damage.

It was inevitable that the leak to the AP would generate an FBI probe. Given past leak investigations in the Bush and Obama administrations, journalists at the AP and elsewhere know they could face scrutiny. Like it or not, they are part of a crime. The leaker or leakers had taken an oath under the threat of prosecution to protect the information.

The current probe, after almost a year of exhausting other avenues, followed Justice Department guidelines and issued grand jury subpoenas for AP phone records. Did they overreach? There were five reporters and one editor listed on the initial story working out of different AP offices.

Should the AP have been told in advance so it could try to quash the subpoenas? It could delay the inquiry possibly for years if the AP went to court.

Having found my phone records caught up in criminal and civil case probes, such actions from government officials should not be a surprise.

But how many times can the media claim such an action is “chilling sources?” That was a claim during the Valerie Plame case under the Bush administration and repeatedly invoked as the Obama Justice Department has pursued leakers.

The risk of breaking the law apparently didn’t chill those who leaked the information to the AP. That’s what should be considered chilling.

The reality is that this is not a whistleblowing case. There are no heroes here, and the press in this instance was not protecting individuals trying to expose government malfeasance.

Full Article
 
Under Bush, they didn't do much to prevent or punish leaks, except the belated effort in the Plame case and only kicking and screaming. This Administration, by contrast, has decided to aggressively pursue leakers when it comes to national security issues and Republicans in Congress have actually been critical for them not doing more. In my view, the Obama Administration has taken it much too far. The AP phone records thing is problematic because there's no judicial oversight. The DOJ just subpoenaed the stuff and the stuff was produced without advance notice to the AP (which would have tried to stop it). But it's unclear to me how you can aggressively pursue leakers without doing that kind of stuff. If I ran the zoo, I'd take the position that we just can't be that aggressive then, but that's not what the Obama Administration has decided. It's a policy issue.

The Rosen thing is also troubling. While there is zero indication that Rosen would be subject to prosecution for aiding and abetting a criminal act (the leak), and the stuff about his being a co-conspirator was done to get access to his records (not to prosecute him), it sets a dangerous precedent. Sure, the Obama DOJ may not prosecute, but President X's DOJ might. Whomever came up with the co-conspirator theory should be fired and the DOJ should repudiate it publicly. But that ain't likely to happen.

One more thing about Rosen: he was an idiot and made it tremendously easy to identify him and his source in the State Department. Journalists have to take some measures to protect their sources. They have that obligation. Rosen was sloppy as hell and made it way too easy.
 
I haven't read up on the FOX thing yet. I do agree that Obama has been way too authoritarian on this stuff.

Did you read this?

The AP was working on a story where lives really could be at risk. Also at risk were the relationships between U.S., Saudi and British intelligence.

The AP responsibly held its story for five days when informed of national security issues. Although the news organization was informed about only part of the operation, the reality was that intelligence officials believed it had to be closed down immediately.

What is that saying about freedom of speech? Something about "unless it affects others"? We should condone Rosen's part in this leak, which could have led to the deaths of dozens of operatives, because he's a frikkin reporter?

Lock him up. Toss the key.
 
I didn't say that Howey. I do understand there are people plotting to murder Americans (putting the whys aside for a moment), and I do want them caught before they blow up an airliner, absolutely. I have not followed every in and out of this story, and I feel this was a very good, and measured take on the subject. I am very interested in hearing other takes. That's why I posted it.
 
I didn't say that Howey. I do understand there are people plotting to murder Americans (putting the whys aside for a moment), and I do want them caught before they blow up an airliner, absolutely. I have not followed every in and out of this story, and I feel this was a very good, and measured take on the subject. I am very interested in hearing other takes. That's why I posted it.

You said you thought Obama was way too authoritarian in this matter. I showed you why he should have been. :)

Oh, and I've made the same point as the writer several times on here.
 
You said you thought Obama was way too authoritarian in this matter. I showed you why he should have been. :)

Oh, and I've made the same point as the writer several times on here.

He is way too authoritarian on this matter. Can you be any more of an Obama suck-up Howey? I am obviously not a hater, and I automatically discard anything Republicans say about any Democrat, but you are really too funny.
 
Under Bush, they didn't do much to prevent or punish leaks, except the belated effort in the Plame case and only kicking and screaming. This Administration, by contrast, has decided to aggressively pursue leakers when it comes to national security issues and Republicans in Congress have actually been critical for them not doing more. In my view, the Obama Administration has taken it much too far. The AP phone records thing is problematic because there's no judicial oversight. The DOJ just subpoenaed the stuff and the stuff was produced without advance notice to the AP (which would have tried to stop it). But it's unclear to me how you can aggressively pursue leakers without doing that kind of stuff. If I ran the zoo, I'd take the position that we just can't be that aggressive then, but that's not what the Obama Administration has decided. It's a policy issue.

The Rosen thing is also troubling. While there is zero indication that Rosen would be subject to prosecution for aiding and abetting a criminal act (the leak), and the stuff about his being a co-conspirator was done to get access to his records (not to prosecute him), it sets a dangerous precedent. Sure, the Obama DOJ may not prosecute, but President X's DOJ might. Whomever came up with the co-conspirator theory should be fired and the DOJ should repudiate it publicly. But that ain't likely to happen.

One more thing about Rosen: he was an idiot and made it tremendously easy to identify him and his source in the State Department. Journalists have to take some measures to protect their sources. They have that obligation. Rosen was sloppy as hell and made it way too easy.

There were special prosecutors appointed during in the Bush admin.....where are they now ?...Obama investigates himself, and surprise, surprise, finds no wrongdoing....

On September 7, 2006, Armitage admitted to being the source in the CIA leak. Yet Fitzgerald asked him not to discuss publicly his role in the matter. why ?
Obviously he wanted to go on a witch hunt and ignore the real reason for the investigation in the first place....Libby was persecuted and prosecuted for a bad memory...
yet today, we have
an AG that recuses himself and don't remember when he did it....and further states he never notified anyone of the recusal itself – nor did he notify the White House.

And what do the lefties think about that.....absolutely nothing....they don't even bat and eye.
 
The Rosen thing is also troubling. While there is zero indication that Rosen would be subject to prosecution for aiding and abetting a criminal act (the leak), and the stuff about his being a co-conspirator was done to get access to his records (not to prosecute him), it sets a dangerous precedent. Sure, the Obama DOJ may not prosecute, but President X's DOJ might. Whomever came up with the co-conspirator theory should be fired and the DOJ should repudiate it publicly. But that ain't likely to happen.

One more thing about Rosen: he was an idiot and made it tremendously easy to identify him and his source in the State Department. Journalists have to take some measures to protect their sources. They have that obligation. Rosen was sloppy as hell and made it way too easy.


Its more likely he'll get a fat bonus and a promotion....and

...its not against the law to talk to or question government workers and officials....thats his fuckin' job.....
 
Its more likely he'll get a fat bonus and a promotion....and

...its not against the law to talk to or question government workers and officials....thats his fuckin' job.....


(1) Whether it's his job or not is beside the point.

(2) Rosen hasn't been prosecuted.

(3) Rosen was really, dreadfully bad at his job. That's how he ended up being subject to a search warrant.
 
(1) Whether it's his job or not is beside the point.

(2) Rosen hasn't been prosecuted.

(3) Rosen was really, dreadfully bad at his job. That's how he ended up being subject to a search warrant.


It being his job is the point....hes being investigated, threatened and persecuted for doing his job. A job identical to every reporter, left and right....ask questions, talk to gov. workers and politicians, etc.

The threat of procecution is there.

and what you think of his ability as a reporter, good or bad, is what is beside the point and totally irrelevant....
his being subject to a search warrant on such an obvious trumped up charge of co-conspirator is criminal on the part of the Obama admin...and an abuse of power.
 
There were special prosecutors appointed during in the Bush admin.....where are they now ?...Obama investigates himself, and surprise, surprise, finds no wrongdoing....

On September 7, 2006, Armitage admitted to being the source in the CIA leak. Yet Fitzgerald asked him not to discuss publicly his role in the matter. why ?
Obviously he wanted to go on a witch hunt and ignore the real reason for the investigation in the first place....Libby was persecuted and prosecuted for a bad memory...
yet today, we have
an AG that recuses himself and don't remember when he did it....and further states he never notified anyone of the recusal itself – nor did he notify the White House.

And what do the lefties think about that.....absolutely nothing....they don't even bat and eye.


LOL. The Plame matter was referred to the Special Counsel because Rove, a White House official, was a suspect and the then current AG, John Ashcroft, had to recuse himself from the investigation due to his relationship with Rove, among other reasons. What, exactly, is the parallel? What is Obama being investigated for, exactly?

You're a goddamned mess.
 
It being his job is the point....hes being investigated, threatened and persecuted for doing his job. A job identical to every reporter, left and right....ask questions, talk to gov. workers and politicians, etc.

The threat of procecution is there.

and what you think of his ability as a reporter, good or bad, is what is beside the point and totally irrelevant....
his being subject to a search warrant on such an obvious trumped up charge of co-conspirator is criminal on the part of the Obama admin...and an abuse of power.


LOL.
 
LOL. The Plame matter was referred to the Special Counsel because Rove, a White House official, was a suspect and the then current AG, John Ashcroft, had to recuse himself from the investigation due to his relationship with Rove, among other reasons. What, exactly, is the parallel? What is Obama being investigated for, exactly?

You're a goddamned mess.


Rove, Ashcroft, etc.....do you equate these guys with Obama ?....Obama himself in not being investigated..........................yet.

the parallel is its Obamas IRS workers, Obamas Sec. of State, Obamas AG that can't seem to remember when he recused himself....and not Obama himself.

It was officials under Bush and officials under Obama .....

Bush did not try to investigate his own administration and neither should Obama....we need a Special Counsel now for the same reasons we needed one then....

and the point of the Plame matter is, it was solved, RA confessed, there was no need for a witch hunt and procecution of Libby for not remembering some minor particular
details of past events.....the hunt for the leaker was over, and oddly enough, he wasn't procecuted.

Your being schooled, unless you can actually refute something of substance.
 
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So everything that Republicans have their knickers in a twist about should be referred to a Special Counsel? Party like it's 1995, bravo.
 
So everything that Republicans have their knickers in a twist about should be referred to a Special Counsel? Party like it's 1995, bravo.


Are you gullible enough to think an administration could or should investigate itself ?....if thats the case we're done....because you'd be admitting to being to stupid
to talk to.....

We have an AG that can't remember when he recused himself....that idiocy don't bother you even a little.....
We have an IRS worker in upper management, that don't think what they were doing we partisan and against civil rights.....thats ludicrous
We still can't find out the answers to simple questions about Benghazi, people that were there are threatened with losing their jobs if they do....that doesn't bother you ?
Fast and Furious was never vetted to anyones satisfaction....


At least you found out your president was a perjurer in the 90's, among other things.....that was a plus
 
Are you gullible enough to think an administration could or should investigate itself ?....if thats the case we're done....because you'd be admitting to being to stupid
to talk to.....

There's this bunch of people called Congress. They can investigate stuff. If (and that if is doing a hell of a lot of work here) there is evidence of criminal wrongdoing (like the outing of a covert CIA agent) then we can talk about what the DOJ ought to do.

We have an AG that can't remember when he recused himself....that idiocy don't bother you even a little.....
We have an IRS worker in upper management, that don't think what they were doing we partisan and against civil rights.....thats ludicrous
We still can't find out the answers to simple questions about Benghazi, people that were there are threatened with losing their jobs if they do....that doesn't bother you ?
Fast and Furious was never vetted to anyones satisfaction....

What bothers me is that we have morons who want Special Counsel appointed absent evidence of any criminal wrongdoing.


At least you found out your president was a perjurer in the 90's, among other things.....that was a plus

Yeah, it was totally worth the 8 year and $70 million investigation to find out the President of the United States is a human being.
 
There's this bunch of people called Congress. They can investigate stuff. If (and that if is doing a hell of a lot of work here) there is evidence of criminal wrongdoing (like the outing of a covert CIA agent) then we can talk about what the DOJ ought to do.



What bothers me is that we have morons who want Special Counsel appointed absent evidence of any criminal wrongdoing.




Yeah, it was totally worth the 8 year and $70 million investigation to find out the President of the United States is a human being.

Yeah, a human being unfit for the office.


Special counsel was good enough for Bush, its good enough for Obama.....the IRS bullshit was obviously criminal and an investigation will prove far more than
what we know now....

Congress investigate ?....you gotta be shittin'.....they all grandstand and make speeches, they don't investigate.....5 min. each to question a witness....thats nuts.
you ask a yes or no question and get a speech in return, times up and the question remains unanswered.....
 
the IRS bullshit was obviously criminal and an investigation will prove far more than
what we know now....

You're so ignorant. Yeah, the IRS stuff is bullshit, but is it criminal? No, no more than every IRS investigation during every president for the past 60 years.

Do you understand what the job of the IRS is? To collect revenue. That's what they do. This was thousands of so-called social charity groups applying for 501(c)4 status who's bylaws include getting rid of the IRS and the Fed, as well as other assorted anti-government rhetoric.

Why the fuck wouldn't the IRS take a second look at their application?

Know what the real problem is? These groups aren't so-called social charity groups, they're money traffickers, funneling money from anonymous political groups to political campaigns. WHICH IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE 401(c)4 STATUTE!

Let's just get rid of the status. That'll get rid of the problem.

Here's a look at another problem:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...re-learning-about-the-irss-cincinnati-office/
We’re getting more reporting out of the IRS’s Cincinnati office. The reports all paint a similar picture: An overworked, overwhelmed, understaffed agency outpost that wasn’t prepared for the rise in political 501(c)(4)s, was confused about how to manage them, was unable to get proper direction from higher-ups, and responded in ways that were both inappropriate (targeting tea party-related groups for extra scrutiny) and incompetent (taking forever to conduct that extra scrutiny).

There continues to be no evidence that the targeting was directed by agency higher-ups, much less anyone related to the Obama campaign. In fact, there’s still not much evidence that the targeting was politically biased in intent, even as it was clearly politically biased in effect.

One clear implication of these stories, though, is that the employees of the Cincinnati Determinations Unit are not the employees you want to trust with a task of this delicacy. “I don’t believe there’s any such thing as rogue agents — there are some that aren’t as competent as others, just like in any workplace,” Esrig said.

Jack Reilly, a former lawyer in the Washington office that oversaw exempt organizations, was even more blunt to the New York Times. “Nobody wants to be a determination agent. It’s a job that just about everybody would be anxious to get out of it.” This was not an office that was appropriately staffed and prepared for the rise of political 501(c)(4)s, much less the improvisational, politically explosive, highly diplomatic work of vetting them.

It's a good piece, and points out a lot about this situation, none of which is criminal. I wonder how many IRS employees have lost their jobs in the past five years at the hands of Congress?

Here's more...the solution.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat.../the-irs-should-eliminate-501c4-organizations

The best solution to the problems with 501(c)(4) organizations is to eliminate them completely. The problem with the (c)(4) designation is that it is essentially a charity that is permitted to engage in unlimited lobbying and some significant amount of political campaign activity (as long as that activity isn’t the organization’s “primary purpose”) in exchange for denying the organization the ability to receive deductible charitable contributions.
 
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