Bad News For the Keystone XL

Well that's a fine sentiment but our energy sources need to come from somewhere. What would you sugggest to replace petroleum that could meet public demand now?
See...that's the flaw with this discussion. We don't get any benefit from the Keystone extension. U.S taxpayers will dole out app. $1 billion in subsidies to multinational companies in Texas. We see no tax revenue from the sale of the finished product. Said product takes a lot of petroleum just to refine into some sort of diesel product. It isn't good for the environment, it isn't good for our economy, and it isn't good for our oil consumption rates, because it all gets sold on the open market....tax exempt in this country.


Why not just let China take it via a pipeline to the Pacific? Canada won't refine it, because they're already getting pushback from environmentalists over the devastation caused by the mining.

It won't lower fuel prices, because tar sand garbage isn't worth refining when gas is less than $4/gallon.

There is absolutely no upside for the U.S. None.
 
and when were those pipelines built?

actually, i do not know, however they are supposed to be tested and maintained

the latest rupture happened to a pipeline that had been inspected just two months before it failed...maybe they need to develop better inspection techniques, or maybe more frequent inspections

the age of a pipeline should not matter if it is properly maintained and tested, so why the failures if they are being properly maintained and inspected?
 
This seems to discuss the pros and cons pretty well.

You are here: Home / Energy and Utilities / Keystone XL Pipeline Pros and Cons
Keystone XL Pipeline Pros and Cons

January 16, 2012 by zintro 8 Comments



We asked our Zintro experts about the pros and cons of the proposed TransCanada Keystone XL Pipeline. What are the risk factors for the environment? What kind of benefits does the pipeline offer? Here are their responses.

Foboni, an expert in risk and crisis management and risk-based decision making, says that he is participating in the review and risk assessment of a large, long-term project in Northern Canada (Arctic). “Long-term projects around the world, and in particular in the Arctic region, are exposed to a large number of hazards deriving from extreme conditions, and in particular climate change. Warming and the resulting loss of permafrost (the permanently frozen layer of soil and rock) are causing trouble and will bring havoc in the future to the natural environment, and of course, to any permanent structure,” says Foboni. “If proper risk-based decision making has not been performed from inception, with well balanced and sustainable mitigative programs, the hazards will have unpleasant consequences.”

Nigel, an environmental consultant with a blue chip oil and gas background, says the challenges of the Keystone XL Pipeline have been largely met in many locations, including the Alaskan/Canada corridor and many parts of Russia and other cold temperate and arctic zones. “The primary concern should be for the Tundra, in that a buried pipe may not only threaten the delicate balance of temperature, but interfere with fauna associated with these zones,” he says. “Vibration and the potential heat associated with the passing crude may have an impact. Pipeline integrity from the point of view of corrosion monitoring and regular pigging would be an essential provision. Pipeline integrity from the point of view of damage from collision or sabotage is equally important.”

Nigel points out that pumping stations are required throughout the route, with consequential infrastructure associated with the servicing of these stations and way leave examination. Provision for migration routes is needed and a route avoiding areas of special sensitivity should be considered. “Depending upon population density, some economic value may be available for isolated communities in supporting the pipeline construction and consequential supervision,” says Nigel. “However, the case is more likely to be made around the cost-benefit case of accessing the tar sands and generating refined product. The energy costs and environmental impacts, such as energy consumption (fossil or non-fossil), carbon dioxide emissions, and hazardous waste, from production have a cost”.

Dr. Kilpatrick, an economic policy consultant, says that liquid petroleum products made from refined crude oil are primarily used in transportation and manufacturing with a small amount used for home heating, mainly in the Northeast. They cannot be entirely replaced by more environmentally friendly fuels, such as solar and wind, unless and until vehicles are powered by electricity. “At this point, who knows what the law of unintended consequences of that path might be? Meanwhile, the demand for this oil exists, and it will be supplied from somewhere,” says Kilpatrick. “Gas and oil pipelines are built all over the US, usually with little opposition. While human error and corrosion do cause some amount of environmental damage, pipelines are the safest, most environmentally friendly means of transporting hydrocarbons. The root of the opposition to the Keystone XL Pipeline seems to be the production of oil from tar sands in Alberta, CA.”

Kilpatrick says that it is hard to get a handle on how many jobs the pipeline will create. “Most of the numbers are produced by sources with a stake in the outcome, and thus not reliable. I would argue that it will primarily create temporary construction jobs and provide a short term boost to motels, restaurants, and shops in towns along the pipeline route. But, the number of people needed to actually operate the pipeline, including inspection and maintenance, will not be large.”

Alan Herbst, an energy consultant, says that after years of planning, regulatory and environmental review, on August 26, 2011, the US State Department released the Final Environmental Impact Statement for TransCanada’s Keystone XL pipeline project. This review stated there were no environmental obstacles present to prohibit the pipeline’s development and is expected to result in US State Department approval of the project, the last significant hurdle necessary for its permitting and construction.

“The XL project is an expansion of the existing 600k b/d Keystone pipeline that runs from Alberta, Canada to refineries in Illinois and storage facilities in Cushing, Oklahoma. The XL expansion will provide an additional 700k b/d of pipeline capacity and enable crude oil from Canada and North Dakota’s Bakken field to reach refineries in Houston and Port Arthur, Texas,” explains Herbst.

“Proponents of Keystone XL cite the economic benefits (direct and indirect job creation, greater tax revenue and potentially lower oil prices) resulting from the multi-billion dollar project. Opponents have expressed concerns over potential pipeline leaks that could pollute surface water and area aquifers,” says Herbst. “Some pipeline opponents are looking to hinder the further development of Alberta oil sands sector by attempting to limit further construction of regional pipeline takeaway and export capacity.”

While safety and the environment are legitimate concerns, the XL expansion project will meet or exceed all US pipeline safety regulations, will be constructed from high strength steel, and have a fusion bonded epoxy coating along with active cathodic protection to prevent corrosion. “The pipeline will be remotely monitored 24-hours a day and buried at depths from 4 to 25+ feet depending on location. These features permit the safe construction and operation of the Keystone XL pipeline,” says Herbst.

Herbst says that the pipeline, which is expected to enter service in 2013, will provide an outlet for the increasing amounts of crude oil entering Cushing, which has created a supply glut (currently 31 million barrels are in storage) and depressed prices at the NYMEX delivery point. “This abundance of supply has inverted and widened the Brent/WTI spread, which at times has Brent trading at a $25 premium to WTI. Brent, a slightly lower quality crude, was traditionally valued at a $1.25-$1.75 discount to WTI,” he says. “Once the Keystone XL pipeline and one or two other pipelines are built to increase crude oil transport capacity to the US Gulf, the Brent/WTI spread will begin to narrow and possibly revert back to its traditional pricing relationship. This pipeline development will also provide US Gulf refiners with access to growing amounts of high quality Canadian and US crude, lessening their reliance on oil imports from Europe, Africa, Mexico and South America.”

http://blog.zintro.com/2012/01/16/keystone-xl-pipeline-pros-and-cons/
 
actually, i do not know, however they are supposed to be tested and maintained

the latest rupture happened to a pipeline that had been inspected just two months before it failed...maybe they need to develop better inspection techniques, or maybe more frequent inspections

the age of a pipeline should not matter if it is properly maintained and tested, so why the failures if they are being properly maintained and inspected?

Actually that is the very problem. The age of many pipelines are getting to the point where they need to be replaced. Not just maintained.
 
What benefit would that be to the company?

Who says it has to benefit the company?

Oil companies are Big Money Players...they rolled the dice...they gambled on a lease. If it is ultimately determined they leased a tract of land that makes retrieval of the oil impossible for the forseeable future, they shouldn't get to sit on the lease in perpetuity

LMAO... so if they spend the money to find the oil in a location that is not economically viable to produce, they should give up the lease? Again, I don't think you understand how a business works.

That's right. Why should a private company be allowed to sit on a lease of public land in perpetuity, if they have no intention of working the leased land? That would be wasting corporate money that might be better used elsewhere and it allows the big oil companies to monopolize the leases and keep the smaller, more innovative companies out.

Because that makes little sense, unless the government was willing to accept say $2mm up front rather than $3mm over the full term. Otherwise there would be no incentive to the company to do so.

So it all comes back around to what's best for the company again? I hate to burst your bubble but there's no guarantee of profitting from every single venture an oil company undertakes written anywhere in the Constitution. If they sign a lease with the Federal Government to drill on land owned by YOU AND I, they should be given a specific time in which to make the leased land productive or forfeit the lease...end of story.

What gives you that idea? I think they should pay the leases regardless of whether they find oil. If they find the oil, then their lease should be extended so they can profit from the risk they took. Nowhere have I suggested they should get out of the bad leases if the gamble doesn't pay off. I was explaining to you why they CAN'T simply walk away and why so many leases are 'not being drilled on'.


No, you just want to allow these companies to sit on "unproductive" leases in perpetuity, all while applying for and leasing new tracts of land that may or may not turn out to be profitable, until somewhere down the line in the future, the technology hopefully becomes available. The same big oil companies gobble up lease after lease and sit on them doing nothing, all while the price of oil continues to climb and partisan Righties whine that the President isn't doing enough to open up domestic drilling.
 
Canada BC says no to a pipeline carrying this junk -

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/05/british-columbia-kills-west-coast-pipeline-plan

While we've been having a big fight over the proposed Keystone XL pipeline down here in the US, Canada has also been debating a massive pipeline for exporting tar sands oil, the Northern Gateway. And on Friday, the government of British Columbia put the kibosh on that whole idea.

BC's environment minister said Friday that Enbridge, the company seeking to build the pipeline, had not adequately answered the government's questions about the project, and that there were still outstanding concerns about spill prevention and response.
 
You're fear mongering to halt necessary growth and progress. Anything and everything is potentially harmful to the environment or vulnerable to terrorists or anything else that you in your fear addled mind may come up with. All things have risk. That you would argue that the mere possibility (not probability) of failure is enough to deny progressing is ridiculous in the extreme.

gee, just how many pipeline leaks have happened in the last 5 years?

the greatest danger of using a pipeline to move this oil is that it is heavier than water and keystone has not submitted a plan for cleaning up this type of oil that is not the same as for lighter than water oil

in fact, no oil company has submitted a new cleanup plan for decades

also, who conducted the 'study' and who paid for it
 
gee, just how many pipeline leaks have happened in the last 5 years?

the greatest danger of using a pipeline to move this oil is that it is heavier than water and keystone has not submitted a plan for cleaning up this type of oil that is not the same as for lighter than water oil

in fact, no oil company has submitted a new cleanup plan for decades

also, who conducted the 'study' and who paid for it
I would like to thank you and morons like you for keeping oil way more expensive than it needs to be gramps!
 
gee, just how many pipeline leaks have happened in the last 5 years?

the greatest danger of using a pipeline to move this oil is that it is heavier than water and keystone has not submitted a plan for cleaning up this type of oil that is not the same as for lighter than water oil

in fact, no oil company has submitted a new cleanup plan for decades

also, who conducted the 'study' and who paid for it

Do you really thinik that transporting oil by rail is safer?
 
Back
Top