Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

why are you calling the SCOTUS names for NOT agreeing with YOUR interpitations of the constitution?


Why the fuck do you think ONLY YOUR interpitation matters?

because your a spoiled child
 
SmarterthanYou said:
and professor baxter is a moron if he thinks he knows I vote GOP. I urge Libertarians (and independents) to vote Libertarian by showing them exactly what I posted about, that both dems and repubs infringe on rights and freedom.
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No one said you vote GOP.

What you do do is, spout conservative nonsense.
 
Rune said:
No one said you vote GOP.

What you do do is, spout conservative nonsense.
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what I 'spout' is freedom, pure and simple. some of it has been championed by conservatives and some by liberals. what you're being obtuse about is the fact that i'm critical of the left and right for their attacks on freedom, and all you can do is call me a conservative. pretty rich.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
and professor baxter is a moron if he thinks he knows I vote GOP. I urge Libertarians (and independents) to vote Libertarian by showing them exactly what I posted about, that both dems and repubs infringe on rights and freedom.
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I never said you vote GOP. My problem with people like you is that you are all too eager to kiss Republican ass when you agree with them on a topic but are unwilling to join in any common cause with Democrats, even though you claim to be in general agreement on an issue. Libertarians should be encouraging agreement wherever we can find it.


Outside of libertarians, nearly all of the support for some sort of rollback of the surveillance state comes from the left. Right wingers like Christie, King and McCain are the ones that have aggressively gone after Amash and Paul. If Romney were President there would be almost no support for reform on the right and they would be much more severe in their attacks on Amash and Paul. I have not heard anyone of the left going after Ron Wyden and he has been pretty critical. Obama totally sucks, but he at least paid lip service to welcoming debate on the topic while Bush said, "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists," and meant it.
 
Professor Baxter said:
I never said you vote GOP. My problem with people like you is that you are all too eager to kiss Republican ass when you agree with them on a topic but are unwilling to join in any common cause with Democrats, even though you claim to be in general agreement on an issue. Libertarians should be encouraging agreement wherever we can find it.


Outside of libertarians, nearly all of the support for some sort of rollback of the surveillance state comes from the left. Right wingers like Christie, King and McCain are the ones that have aggressively gone after Amash and Paul. If Romney were President there would be almost no support for reform on the right and they would be much more severe in their attacks on Amash and Paul. I have not heard anyone of the left going after Ron Wyden and he has been pretty critical. Obama totally sucks, but he at least paid lip service to welcoming debate on the topic while Bush said, "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists," and meant it.
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Bravo sir. Bravo. :hand:
 
SmarterthanYou said:
what I 'spout' is freedom, pure and simple. some of it has been championed by conservatives and some by liberals. what you're being obtuse about is the fact that i'm critical of the left and right for their attacks on freedom, and all you can do is call me a conservative. pretty rich.
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you tout historically failed ideas.


You are not the final arbiter of how the constitution is read.


you are in a minority in this country in your thinking.

We are a democracy and you lose
 
Dungheap said:
That's stupid. Voting for someone isn't an endorsement of everything that person supports. If I limited myself to voting only for candidates who I am in 100% agreement with, I'd never vote for anyone.
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It is. You voted either supporting acts like this or in apathy about because you believe there are things more important than the government abusing its power and eroding rights away from people who are not criminals and harm no one.
 
Professor Baxter said:
I never said you vote GOP. My problem with people like you is that you are all too eager to kiss Republican ass when you agree with them on a topic but are unwilling to join in any common cause with Democrats, even though you claim to be in general agreement on an issue.
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you obviously haven't read many of my posts.
 
evince said:
you tout historically failed ideas.
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freedom is a historically failed idea? now we know what you are.

evince said:
You are not the final arbiter of how the constitution is read.
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I am part of 'we the people', so yes I am.


evince said:
you are in a minority in this country in your thinking.
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so slavery is in the majority? too bad for you.

evince said:
We are a democracy and you lose
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RIGHTS don't get voted on, you moron.
 
Attila the Hun said:
It is. You voted either supporting acts like this or in apathy about because you believe there are things more important than the government abusing its power and eroding rights away from people who are not criminals and harm no one.
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Nice little false dichotomy you've set up there. Kudos to you, sir.

I guess I should keep it real from now on and just not vote for anyone ever.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
RIGHTS don't get voted on, you moron.
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You know, there was some bad stuff in the constitution originally. You know - where slavery was legal and slaves only counted 3/5ths of a person? Back then you probably would have been yelling "but it's in the constitution so it must be inviolate!"

I hope one of these days we get enough people with enough guts to dump the 2nd amendment since it's been so abused by the likes of you. People like YOU are what is making everyone else sick and tired of allowing any guns.
 
tekkychick said:
You know, there was some bad stuff in the constitution originally. You know - where slavery was legal and slaves only counted 3/5ths of a person? Back then you probably would have been yelling "but it's in the constitution so it must be inviolate!"
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Tekky, your deficient. your deficiency is your inability to see past your own motto of 'liberal with us, or against us'. it's evident in how most of you reacted to Onceler and then relentlessly attacked him for his position on trayvons death. it was shameful. If you even halfway attempted to read some of my threads, you'd see that I support all rights for everyone, not just the ones I want to. I'm also very aware of how to progress society through the constitution, not by restricting the rights of others, but by recognizing the rights of others. something you should try to learn more about.

tekkychick said:
I hope one of these days we get enough people with enough guts to dump the 2nd amendment since it's been so abused by the likes of you. People like YOU are what is making everyone else sick and tired of allowing any guns.
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good luck with that. It won't turn out the way you hope though. something you need to realize is that there are millions of us that are former military and are quite ready to defend what is ours, namely our rights and freedom. the only way you'd have any chance of success would be to invite the military units of a dozen other nations on to our shores to help, and then you'd end up facing even more of us. short answer, there is no way you'll win.
 
Dungheap said:
Nice little false dichotomy you've set up there. Kudos to you, sir.

I guess I should keep it real from now on and just not vote for anyone ever.
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It's not a false dichotomy. You knew his record on individual freedoms, you thought other things were more important. You stated exactly as much.
 
Dungheap said:
Nice little false dichotomy you've set up there. Kudos to you, sir.

I guess I should keep it real from now on and just not vote for anyone ever.
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this just looks like an excuse. you did know his record. you voted for him because he represented himself as a chicago liberal, said the right things, and he probably was even marginally better than mccain or romney. but you still voted for him which shows you supported him.
 
Clovis said:
Yes, the picosecond of hesitation you displayed before checking his name on the ballot was very critical of him.
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Are you implying something of which you have no knowledge? Do you think Romney would be good for the people of this country?
 
Clovis said:
It's not a false dichotomy. You knew his record on individual freedoms, you thought other things were more important. You stated exactly as much.
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No, I stated that as between the two candidates with a viable chance of winning, I voted for the candidate whose views were most in line with mine. It's not that other thigns were "more important," but that both Mitt "Double Gitmo" Rmoney and Obama were going to be pretty bad on this score (though I think Obama, as bad as he is, is better than Rmoney woult have been). That's not "apathy" and it's not "voting in support of acts like this." It's voting for the best among flawed candidates notwithstanding the flaws of that best candidate.

And, like I have said repeatedly, that's the only way I can vote since I have yet to meet a candidate with whom I agree 100%. So my options are to not vote or to vote for a flawed candidate. I chose to vote for the flawed candidate on the grounds that less evil is better than more.
 
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