Should victim families sue FL for creating these gun free zones?

Rana said:
I don't get drunk at bars, but I feel others have the right. If you don't like the rule, stay home with your guns. Alcohol and guns don't mix, just look at the number of casualties when the two mix, its not good.
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if you don't like guns in bars, stay home with your booze. it's as simple as that.
 
I don't think there's any doubt that if you were hiding in that bathroom...first, just to clarify, they were in stalls. I read this f'ing harrowing account of one survivor who played dead, he was with a friend in one stall, they both survived. But the people and there were more than two, in the stall next to them, did not. So, if you are in one of those stalls in this situation, do you wish you had a gun? Sure. Let's be honest. I don't like to play these games.

But say you had a gun, well you're not going to walk around with an assault rifle, let's be honest there too, so you have a concealed handgun. Now you're in bathroom stall. Did he shoot them through the door? I don't know. Did he open it and shoot? I really don't know. But let's say he did open the door, so you are there with a handgun against an assault rifle. Do you make it out? Probably not. Almost definitely not. He tried to purchase body armor, which I believe the Colorado shooter was wearing...this one couldn't buy it, they turned him away (interesting). But let's say he did have body armor, like the movie shooter...forget it, now there is zero chance you leave that bathroom even if you have a gun.

I understand with all of this madness the urge to carry a gun to defend yourself if you are ever in a mass shooting incident. It comes down to this, IMO. We have the choice of arming everyone, which will lead to even more deaths, even though certain individuals in certain cases may very well survive a shooting they wouldn't have if unarmed, or we can ban these fucking assault weapons, which truly are weapons of mass destruction, and have a safer society for all of us. I choose the latter. I choose rationality over a "feeling" (illusion) of safety.

Polls show so do most Americans. It is the NRA and their bought and paid for whore politicians that stand in the way.
 
Darla said:
I don't think there's any doubt that if you were hiding in that bathroom...first, just to clarify, they were in stalls. I read this f'ing harrowing account of one survivor who played dead, he was with a friend in one stall, they both survived. But the people and there were more than two, in the stall next to them, did not. So, if you are in one of those stalls in this situation, do you wish you had a gun? Sure. Let's be honest. I don't like to play these games.
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the first mistake those people made was running to a place that had no other exit. yes, people can panic and make stupid mistakes in situations they are not prepared for.

Darla said:
But say you had a gun, well you're not going to walk around with an assault rifle, let's be honest there too, so you have a concealed handgun. Now you're in bathroom stall. Did he shoot them through the door? I don't know. Did he open it and shoot? I really don't know. But let's say he did open the door, so you are there with a handgun against an assault rifle. Do you make it out? Probably not. Almost definitely not. He tried to purchase body armor, which I believe the Colorado shooter was wearing...this one couldn't buy it, they turned him away (interesting). But let's say he did have body armor, like the movie shooter...forget it, now there is zero chance you leave that bathroom even if you have a gun.
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you're making assumptions without facts in evidence.
1) was the perpetrator an expert or novice with that rifle?
2) would the person returning fire with a handgun have training with that handgun? I know I was taught and have trained later to do 2 rounds center mass, then 2 to the head. even with body armor, that shit hurts like hell, can break ribs, even cause unconsciousness.

Darla said:
I understand with all of this madness the urge to carry a gun to defend yourself if you are ever in a mass shooting incident. It comes down to this, IMO. We have the choice of arming everyone, which will lead to even more deaths, even though certain individuals in certain cases may very well survive a shooting they wouldn't have if unarmed, or we can ban these fucking assault weapons, which truly are weapons of mass destruction, and have a safer society for all of us. I choose the latter. I choose rationality over a "feeling" (illusion) of safety.
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both choices leave you with the 'illusion'. what weapons did the virginia tech shooter use? and if 'assault' weapons are weapons of mass destruction, why do we allow our police forces to use them? excuse me.....'patrol rifles'. :rolleyes:

Darla said:
Polls show so do most Americans. It is the NRA and their bought and paid for whore politicians that stand in the way.
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the NRA consists of over 4 million people. that's not taking in to account the number of other people who are NOT NRA members that have them and will not give them up.

so you have another choice.....how many people are you willing to see die to ban these 'assault' weapons?
 
We don't agree and won't.

As for making the mistake of hiding in a spot with no exits, I was thinking about that. And what the "experts" have been saying everywhere since San Bernardino, and maybe before then, is that if you're in a mass shooting you should: Run, Hide, Fight. In that order.

It's very sad because I agree hiding can be a big mistake. Of course that is what we have all been told to do. If you find a spot to hide in that has multiple exits, why would you stay there, hiding? You'd use an exit and run. So it'd have to be one hell of a hiding place to make that an effective strategy. And of course, luck plays a big role. With all the people in the club there was no guarantee he'd ever go into the bathroom I guess.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
if you don't like guns in bars, stay home with your booze. it's as simple as that.
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I do stay home, I don't go to bars very often, anymore, because there was a rash of shootings after hours at bars here in Anchorage. I usually have a couple of drinks with dinner and go home.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
if you don't like guns in bars, stay home with your booze. it's as simple as that.
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The majority of people, fortunately don't agree with you and that is why there is the SENSIBLE law of no guns in bars. There are fortunately, very few instances of a mad man shooting up a bar for political reasons, there are many instances of drunk people shooting someone they have a disagreement with when drunk in a bar or other places where alcohol is being served, so I say it is better to have gun free zones where alcohol is served then to allow guns to protect you against Daesh terrorists.
 
Rana said:
The majority of people, fortunately don't agree with you and that is why there is the SENSIBLE law of no guns in bars.
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and it sounds like it's worked wonderfully in your area :palm:

Rana said:
There are fortunately, very few instances of a mad man shooting up a bar for political reasons, there are many instances of drunk people shooting someone they have a disagreement with when drunk in a bar or other places where alcohol is being served, so I say it is better to have gun free zones where alcohol is served then to allow guns to protect you against Daesh terrorists.
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again, it's worked so well. I have to wonder how many people have carried a gun in to a bar, didn't get drunk, didn't shoot someone over a stupid argument, and everyone still made it home safe even though it was a gun free zone. :what:
 
SmarterthanYou said:
and it sounds like it's worked wonderfully in your area :palm:


again, it's worked so well. I have to wonder how many people have carried a gun in to a bar, didn't get drunk, didn't shoot someone over a stupid argument, and everyone still made it home safe even though it was a gun free zone. :what:
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No law works perfectly, they are just there to minimize the number of incidences that could happen. You are an idiot if you think that there should be no laws just because they aren't perfect.
 
SmarterthanFew said:
I have to wonder how many people have carried a gun in to a bar, didn't get drunk, didn't shoot someone over a stupid argument, and everyone still made it home safe even though it was a gun free zone.
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Do you wonder how so many people who drive drunk, speed, and run red lights still make it home safe?
 
Rana said:
No law works perfectly, they are just there to minimize the number of incidences that could happen.
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how well has that worked out for us? or are you going to tell us that had we not enacted gun free school zones, that all school zones would inevitably look like warzones?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
the standard model of an AR has the magazine release button on the mag well. that requires taking one hand off the weapon to depress it, pull the mag out, grab another mag, insert and seat it properly, and then you have to slide the carrier bolt home for it to load again. takes at least 3 seconds for someone that is familiar with their weapon. for an untrained person, maybe 5 or more.
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Three seconds can be a long time if someone is looking to shoot you. Wasn't there obviously but it sure seems like someone could have took him down sooner.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
how well has that worked out for us? or are you going to tell us that had we not enacted gun free school zones, that all school zones would inevitably look like warzones?
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I am telling you that the easier it is to access a gun, the easier it is to use in a moment of irrational thought. Read that stats, it is a fact.
 
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