Coal Keeps Winning! 4 West Mine (Greene County, PA) Closing - 370 Jobs

Havana Moon said:
Oh for God's sake, it is a prototype!! If it proves successful then there is every expectation that it will be rolled out elsewhere. If not in the US, then most certainly in China.

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Yes... by the Chinese.. Its their innovation and their investment.......
 
Havana Moon said:
I do, it was always in the Saudi interest to keep the Palestinians suffering so that they could use it to beat Israel over the head. Maybe the new guy will be far more pragmatic and realise that it benefits the whole region not just Israel.

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Oh yes.. That "keep the Palestinians down" has been the prattle for 40 years.

Funny.. The European refugees sought refuge in Palestine and immediately began abusing the natives. They were Bolsheviks to a man.
 
Ralph said:
The reality is the fact of those jobs being lost during the Obama Administration.......NEW LAWS from the EPA that were never represented by the will of THE PEOPLE. Obama began doing just as he stated he would do....bankrupt the mining industry by making the processing of coal (Obama shut down the ability to process coal) to expensive in the name of regulating CARBON omissions.....an element that is essential to all life on earth but propagated as a producer of some imagined GREEN HOUSE EFFECT when nature produces more Co2 in a decade than all the man made omissions combined. The thing is one can't unrepresentatively legislate nature into bankruptcy.

What new UNREPRESENTED LAWS from the EPA under Obama and their net effect? Over 32 coal using electric generating processing plants shut down. Why mine coal if you can't process it or have a local market nearby....The highest expense to mining and selling coal.....TRANSPORTATION COSTS? The reason those 20 some hundred jobs were lost was directly due to the OVER REGULATION of the private sector void of any input from THE PEOPLE's REPRESENTATIVES. There still remains a global market for all the coal that the United States can mine, but again, the further you ship it the more you must charge for the product.

It may be true that some jobs are being lost to modern technology and to surface mines being more productive with less expensive overhead and loss of life....but those loses are nothing compared to the loses due to a rouge out of control unlegislated EPA on a mission to politicize a necessary energy product as Coal still provides almost 50% of this nation's electrical grid output. FYI: The states are quite capable of regulating any business within their state....that's why each state has a CONSTITUTION.

www.governing.com/gov-data/energy-environment/coal-plants-to-shut-down-from-EPA-regulations.html

Look at the map of the closing coal processing plants in relation to the electric generating plants. You will see.....4 Electric plants within the immediate area mentioned that were overregulated to death, making if to costly to ship the local coal to other plants around the nation. Its simply a matter of DOLLARS and SENSE. When a product costs more to produce than any net gain that can be viably attained.....JOBS ARE LOST to politics and a Big Brother that is attempting to PICK winners and losers in a supposedly FREE MARKET capitalistic nation. This nation has not really had any type of FREE Market since the communists took control of the democrat party in the 60s.
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Hello Ralph,

'Over-regulation' is an opinion. It is to be expected that the people who lost jobs and the billionaires who lost profits are not going to agree with anything which causes that effect. And the billionaires have lots of money to pay for PR and crony capitalism. The internet is going to be full of propaganda pushing that agenda.

Global warming is real. Industrialization is changing our climate. The seas are absorbing more and more CO2. That causes acidification which is killing shellfish and plankton, the very basis of the food chain in the sea. We are wiping out our own food sources! Dirty coal needs to stay in the ground. President Obama was correct to end dirty coal use.

It is incorrect to say coal provides 50% of our electrical energy. Coal now provides just 17% of our energy. Energy in the USA - wiki

It is also incorrect to say that the USA is supposed to be a free market capitalist nation. There is nothing in the Constitution which says this.

Your arguments are packed with opinions, assumptions, misrepresentations and outright falsehoods. No good policy can be produced based on incorrect information.

Coal is our past. Renewable energy is our future.
 
RB 60 said:
Again, read the posts above my first in this thread. I see no "sentiment of vindication" as you call it, just insults and delight.
This is not about race, and I'm not taking your bait to turn it into it.
Automation has hit nearly every industry. Do you think everyone who it has hit can just pick up and move to another location and career?
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Hello RB 60,

No, I don not believe at all that workers displaced by automation will readily acquire suitable replacement employment. Worse yet, this problem is in it's infancy. AI is going to displace most workers in the coming decades. Our only solution is going to be more socialism mixed in with our capitalism. One day there will be a basic universal income for all in return for doing absolutely nothing. This will be paid for by increasing taxes on the super-rich who caused the loss of jobs.
 
kudzu said:
Oh yes.. That "keep the Palestinians down" has been the prattle for 40 years.

Funny.. The European refugees sought refuge in Palestine and immediately began abusing the natives. They were Bolsheviks to a man.
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You can prattle on as much as you want about the past. It would be nice if you came up with a practical solution for the future.

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Havana Moon said:
You can prattle on as much as you want about the past. It would be nice if you came up with a practical solution for the future.

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The Likud has always rejected solutions. They want the rest of the land and to be rid of the Palestinians.
 
kudzu said:
The Likud has always rejected solutions. They want the rest of the land and to be rid of the Palestinians.
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So no practical solutions, just rhetoric then. In which case, it looks like Olmert's words to Abbas were extraordinarily prescient.

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katzgar said:
it's only promising after 190 million in tax dollars.
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How much is spent on wind turbine subsidies each year?

Over the past 35 years, wind energy – which supplied just 4.4% of US electricity in 2014 – has received US$30 billion in federal subsidies and grants. These subsidies shield people from the uncomfortable truth of just how much wind power actually costs and transfer money from average taxpayers to wealthy wind farm owners, many of which are units of foreign companies.

Financial advisory firm Lazard l puts the cost of generating a megawatt-hour of electricity from wind at a range of $37 to $81. In reality, the true price tag is significantly higher.

This represents a waste of resources that could be better spent by taxpayers themselves. Even the supposed environmental gains of relying more on wind power are dubious because of its unreliability – it doesn’t always blow – meaning a stable backup power source must always be online to take over during periods of calm.

But at the same time, the subsidies make the US energy infrastructure more tenuous because the artificially cheap electricity prices push more reliable producers – including those needed as backup – out of the market. As we rely more on wind for our power and its inherent unreliability, the risk of blackouts grows. If that happens, the costs will really soar.
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http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/electricity-generation



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Havana Moon said:
I suppose it is pointless showing you how coal can have a future!

http://www.texascleanenergyproject.com

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Hello and greetings Havana Moon,

That's a very interesting project. I didn't see anything about the feasibility or profitability of doing all that with coal to recapture the CO2 so I would expect to learn that it is not costworthy. Also, I would expect to learn that the process requires the highest grade of coal and simply would not run on average quality coal. It strikes me as a desperate attempt to save a dying industry. Bottom line: If ordinary grade coal is being displaced in the energy market by other energy forms, it promises no big future for an expensive process using specialty coal.
 
smb said:
It is clear from some of the posts in this thread that many of the people really don't know anything about coal mining or coal mining areas. I am third generation Shanty Irish. My great-grandfather came to the U.S. from Ireland and mined coal and died from it. My grandfather mined coal and died from it. He made certain that not one of his sons ever stepped foot in a coal mine before he died of emphysema. The people that want coal industry to come back are people who never worked in mines before or never moved on from mining. The people in coal country in PA still live and die with the results of the coal industry everyday. Talk to people of Centralia, PA who have coal shafts on fire under their feet. Talk to all the people that lost sons and daughters to coal holes and bank collapses. Tell them how much you want coal to make a comeback.
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So you live in "coal country" in PA, do you? Maybe you should do a little research, as of 2013 there were only 7 people living in Centralia, the last time I went through (Oct. of last year), I saw no signs of human life, the few remaining homes were abandoned. That fire started in 1962 from burning trash in the landfill of an abandoned strip mine.
Oh, and by the way, my grandfather died of Pneumoconiosis (also known as Black Lung) from working in a coal mine, not emphysema.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
We live outside a smallish city on the shores of Lake Superior. Our coal-fired plant in town (Presque Isle) will be decommissioned soon. It's being replaced by a huge natural gas-fired plant, which also has a solar farm on the property. Town ppl on that grid can buy a share of the solar farm and have their electric bill decreased. In addition, new wind farms are being established in the Upper Peninsula, where it's plenty windy most of the time. The coal plants have seen their day. Unfortunately they left their mark behind; all of the Great Lakes as well as many inland lakes are contaminated with mercury.
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Hello and greetings ThatOwlWoman,

Mercury poisoning is bad. There are so many tragic consequences to using dirty fossil fuel energy forms. We need proper regulation to prevent capitalism from peeing in the public pool.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello RB 60,

No, I don not believe at all that workers displaced by automation will readily acquire suitable replacement employment. Worse yet, this problem is in it's infancy. AI is going to displace most workers in the coming decades. Our only solution is going to be more socialism mixed in with our capitalism. One day there will be a basic universal income for all in return for doing absolutely nothing. This will be paid for by increasing taxes on the super-rich who caused the loss of jobs.
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When the super-rich run out of money, where will the money come from then?
Myself, I prefer to be self-supportive. Why don't you?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello and greetings ThatOwlWoman,
Mercury poisoning is bad. There are so many tragic consequences to using dirty fossil fuel energy forms. We need proper regulation to prevent capitalism from peeing in the public pool.
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Since the creation of the EPA in 1970, we've taken amazing strides to clean up our land, air, and water.... and allow nearly-extinct species like the bald eagle to make a comeback. Now Trump's base, the poorly-educated that he loves, want to roll back those regulations and restrictions and turn us into a nationwide copy of Beijing, all in the name of "jobs." Your other post about AI and automation is spot on; that is our future. Do we want to live in a world where it's safe to breathe, eat foods grown in the soil, and drink the water? Or do we want to destroy the environment for the sake of jobs that are not coming back? Our choice.
 
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