"Make America Rich Again"

cawacko

cawacko

Well-known member
Where to even begin with this tweet from Trump:

I am a Tariff Man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power. We are right now taking in $billions in Tariffs. MAKE AMERICA RICH AGAIN


Tariffs are taxes. Is his 2020 slogan going to be "I Am The Tax Man"? Any Democrat who ran on this would rightly get laughed at. But because Trump calls himself a Republican this is somehow now acceptable?

It was always liberals and unions that wanted tariffs previously to protect their industries and conservatives who supported free trade because that's where growth comes from. It's maddening watching this change take place and seeing conservatives accept these tariffs as good economics.
 
Every Politician wants to protect the Industry in his*District. You categorizing it as 'Liberal' defeats the idea of having a Discussion on the ISSUE. Like others here, you want to make a Red Team/Blue Team issue that never goes anywhere but "My Team is better than your Team'.


cawacko said:
Where to even begin with this tweet from Trump:

I am a Tariff Man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power. We are right now taking in $billions in Tariffs. MAKE AMERICA RICH AGAIN



Tariffs are taxes. Is his 2020 slogan going to be "I Am The Tax Man"? Any Democrat who ran on this would rightly get laughed at. But because Trump calls himself a Republican this is somehow now acceptable?

It was always liberals and unions that wanted tariffs previously to protect their industries and conservatives who supported free trade because that's where growth comes from. It's maddening watching this change take place and seeing conservatives accept these tariffs as good economics.
Click to expand...
 
Jack said:
Every Politician wants to protect the Industry in his*District. You categorizing it as 'Liberal' defeats the idea of having a Discussion on the ISSUE. Like others here, you want to make a Red Team/Blue Team issue that never goes anywhere but "My Team is better than your Team'.
Click to expand...

The reason I'm making it a blue/red thing is because it's historically true. Conservatives have historically been for free trade. And many of those people who supported free trade and would rightly go after any Democrat slapping tariffs on industry like Trump is but instead are supporting Trump doing it.

As beloved as Reagan is the man had his flaws as all Presidents do and he put tariffs on some industries. But at least his rhetoric was one of free trade. He never declared himself Mr. Tariff Man or tariffs would make America rich because they don't.
 
Trump is using this as a default position. He'll never say he couldn't get a deal done -and I'm still 99% sure China and Lighthizer ( US Trade rep) will come to some deal.

The significance of the G-20 Xi statement of accomodation should not be overlooked however.
That was Xi talking, not some lightweight Party memeber.
 
cawacko said:
The reason I'm making it a blue/red thing is because it's historically true. Conservatives have historically been for free trade. And many of those people who supported free trade and would rightly go after any Democrat slapping tariffs on industry like Trump is but instead are supporting Trump doing it.

As beloved as Reagan is the man had his flaws as all Presidents do and he put tariffs on some industries. But at least his rhetoric was one of free trade. He never declared himself Mr. Tariff Man or tariffs would make America rich because they don't.
Click to expand...
China is not practicing free trade. even the G-20 agrees.
Tariffs are the mechanism to try to crash thru their trade barriers as well as their IPR theft, etc.
 
cawacko said:
The reason I'm making it a blue/red thing is because it's historically true. Conservatives have historically been for free trade. And many of those people who supported free trade and would rightly go after any Democrat slapping tariffs on industry like Trump is but instead are supporting Trump doing it.

As beloved as Reagan is the man had his flaws as all Presidents do and he put tariffs on some industries. But at least his rhetoric was one of free trade. He never declared himself Mr. Tariff Man or tariffs would make America rich because they don't.
Click to expand...

Most Capitalists, Wealthy, Investors are 'Free Traders'. Expanded Markets mean MORE MONEY. I don't think it is a Left/Right issue. The rhetoric to the Base may have given you this perception.
Were any of the 'Wealthy' against adding a Billion Chinese Consumers to the Market? (Yeah, sure, the Worker Drones may have seen their Jobs disappear, but nobody represents them)

Let's see (tapping chin) ... you're a Globalist, you support Free Trade, you welcome MORE consumers to the Market. Why? So you can make MORE money.
 
Jack said:
I agree with this Statement.
Click to expand...

you have to remember that China is taking almost $1trillion a YEAR in currency out of our economy due to trade deficits.
But it's not just trade.
Industrial espionage, IPR theft, forced joint ventures and THEY have high trade barriers against US products.

So what to do? If we do nothing China just moves seamlessly into "Made in China 2025" and their extensive efforts under their "1 belt 1 road" iniatiative simply cements them as the new world power

Or we fight back. It's ugly, it's costs us GDP,and you have days like today on wall street.

China doesn't operate short term,and neither should we,but moving away from ignoring barriers
does cause short term pain
 
Jack said:
Most Capitalists, Wealthy, Investors are 'Free Traders'. Expanded Markets mean MORE MONEY. I don't think it is a Left/Right issue. The rhetoric to the Base may have given you this perception.
Were any of the 'Wealthy' against adding a Billion Chinese Consumers to the Market? (Yeah, sure, the Worker Drones may have seen their Jobs disappear, but nobody represents them)

Let's see (tapping chin) ... you're a Globalist, you support Free Trade, you welcome MORE consumers to the Market. Why? So you can make MORE money.
Click to expand...

Do certain individuals get hurt by free trade? Yes, they do. Our country can set up programs to try and assit them if need be. But on the whole free trade brings about greater economic growth and increased access to goods at lower prices. That benefits all Americans. Tariffs may help a select few while doing harm to all.
 
anatta said:
you have to remember that China is taking almost $1trillion a YEAR in currency out of our economy due to trade deficits.
But it's not just trade.
Industrial espionage, IPR theft, forced joint ventures and THEY have high trade barriers against US products.

So what to do? If we do nothing China just moves seamlessly into "Made in China 2025" and their extensive efforts under their "1 belt 1 road" iniatiative simply cements them as the new world power

Or we fight back. It's ugly, it's costs us GDP,and you have days like today on wall street.

China doesn't operate short term,and neither should we,but moving away from ignoring barriers
does cause short term pain
Click to expand...

I totally agree.
Anatta: "Industrial espionage, IPR theft, forced joint ventures and THEY have high trade barriers against US products."
Jack: Yep.

I know you cringe at the mention of 'Central Planning', but this is what China is doing and it should be what the US is doing. An Authoritarian Government is using every tool at it's disposal to overtake and replace a Western Values System of 'Openness' to one of Governmental Control.

Instead of the usual Foot Soldiers taking the hit on this, this time it needs to be the Ownership Class that takes the hit.
 
cawacko said:
Do certain individuals get hurt by free trade? Yes, they do. Our country can set up programs to try and assit them if need be. But on the whole free trade brings about greater economic growth and increased access to goods at lower prices. That benefits all Americans. Tariffs may help a select few while doing harm to all.
Click to expand...


That is secondary to the BIG PICTURE that Anatta is talking about.
 
cawacko said:
Where to even begin with this tweet from Trump:

I am a Tariff Man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power. We are right now taking in $billions in Tariffs. MAKE AMERICA RICH AGAIN


Tariffs are taxes. Is his 2020 slogan going to be "I Am The Tax Man"? Any Democrat who ran on this would rightly get laughed at. But because Trump calls himself a Republican this is somehow now acceptable?

It was always liberals and unions that wanted tariffs previously to protect their industries and conservatives who supported free trade because that's where growth comes from. It's maddening watching this change take place and seeing conservatives accept these tariffs as good economics.
Click to expand...

Congress needs to revoke tariff setting powers from the president. It is absurd that the president is apparently trusted with the ability to arbitrarily set tariffs on his own whim. There is zero reason that that power needs to be delegated to the president.
 
anatta said:
you have to remember that China is taking almost $1trillion a YEAR in currency out of our economy due to trade deficits.
But it's not just trade.
Industrial espionage, IPR theft, forced joint ventures and THEY have high trade barriers against US products.

So what to do? If we do nothing China just moves seamlessly into "Made in China 2025" and their extensive efforts under their "1 belt 1 road" iniatiative simply cements them as the new world power

Or we fight back. It's ugly, it's costs us GDP,and you have days like today on wall street.

China doesn't operate short term,and neither should we,but moving away from ignoring barriers
does cause short term pain
Click to expand...

You believe in attacking other nations simply because they're growing. I believe in justice.
 
Jack said:
Most Capitalists, Wealthy, Investors are 'Free Traders'. Expanded Markets mean MORE MONEY. I don't think it is a Left/Right issue. The rhetoric to the Base may have given you this perception.
Were any of the 'Wealthy' against adding a Billion Chinese Consumers to the Market? (Yeah, sure, the Worker Drones may have seen their Jobs disappear, but nobody represents them)

Let's see (tapping chin) ... you're a Globalist, you support Free Trade, you welcome MORE consumers to the Market. Why? So you can make MORE money.
Click to expand...

You're never going to be able to make the world such where the Chinese don't exist. You can barr them from the US all you want, but that doesn't take them out of the economy. It just gives others who do trade with them a comparitive advantage. What a fool you are.

It is the decision of the US rightists to poison wage growth and kill unions. That's not the fault of the Chinese. It's not the fault of the Chinese that America hates their own workers.
 
Jack said:
That is secondary to the BIG PICTURE that Anatta is talking about.
Click to expand...

How many obnoxious capitalization can you use fascist? China will one day be a world power, and the world will be better off in the absence of totalitarian US control. While the US keeps grasping at straws and seeking to spit on China out of spite, China will barely even notice. America could have a graceful fall from power, or America could choose to do what it always does, be the bully simply because someone else is getting the attention for a bit. America chose the latter. America will hasten its fall. The world will be a better place once China is at the helm and the totalitarian US fascists are put to bed. Then we can have a socialist revolution and remove all the fascist rightists that have been holding us back. The leeches.
 
You thought it was said:
You're never going to be able to make the world such where the Chinese don't exist. You can barr them from the US all you want, but that doesn't take them out of the economy. It just gives others who do trade with them a comparitive advantage. What a fool you are.

It is the decision of the US rightists to poison wage growth and kill unions. That's not the fault of the Chinese. It's not the fault of the Chinese that America hates their own workers.
Click to expand...

And when did the right kill unions?
 
Trump desperately is seeking to make America have the economy China currently has - a bloated artifically carcass of low wage manufacturing. China on the other hand is desperately seeking to have the economy that America currently has - a powerful information based economy. They will both get their wish. Trump will shove ignorance down our throat and kill US innovation. Apple will be destroyed. Google next. Facebook next. The conservatives will have their dream, total destruction of silicon valley, the ebil oppressors of totalitarian fascists everywhere who cannot cease calling for genocide against minorities.

Then we'll get to say HI to Tencent. Say HI to Baidu. That's the replacement for the hated Silicon Valley.
 
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