Tariff Man is back, and American consumers will pay for it

[Superfreak]

it isn't an exact science but we certainly agree this does hurt American consumers, which is my point..

IMHO had trump not gone this alone, pushed away our allies instead of having them join us, the outcomes would be much better........

While I wish for our country to succeeded in the claims we/the world have against China, I do not see trump's current course of tariffs ever accomplishing that, & I hope I am wrong.....

I definitely don't agree with his approach, but our allies in the EU have also been taking advantage of us for decades. They too need to level the playing field. They aren't nearly as bad as China, but they were still averaging about twice the rate on tariffs. Obviously the best outcome is for the playing field to be leveled by removing all tariffs. But the politicians around the world won't do that.

 

[Bill]

I definitely don't agree with his approach, but our allies in the EU have also been taking advantage of us for decades. They too need to level the playing field. They aren't nearly as bad as China, but they were still averaging about twice the rate on tariffs. Obviously the best outcome is for the playing field to be leveled by removing all tariffs. But the politicians around the world won't do that.

Sure, but they could be helping now, when china is out of the way you deal w/ them... Why would anyone fight on multiple fronts if he does not have to.??

 

[Bill]

All of us as consumers benefit from free trade as we gain access to better and lower priced goods. Free trade increases growth, innovation, efficiencies etc. Certain industries may get hurt but that happens in capitalism. Technological advancement hurts certain industries. We can't stop progress in the name of trying to protect every job today.

This is where I'm finding things confusing. On one hand free trade is bad because it (supposedly) hurts workers (hence the unions being fans of tariffs to protect their industries even though it has negative repercussions across the entire economy) yet tariffs are now bad because it increases the cost of goods.

It's like folks want the cheap goods but don't want the free trade that is the cause of them.

We do not benefit equally- conflicting interests are obvious, & different conclusions result..

IN the case in the OP our costs on good from china is going up dramatically, what do you think about that??

 

[Gonzomin]

All of us as consumers benefit from free trade as we gain access to better and lower priced goods. Free trade increases growth, innovation, efficiencies etc. Certain industries may get hurt but that happens in capitalism. Technological advancement hurts certain industries. We can't stop progress in the name of trying to protect every job today.

This is where I'm finding things confusing. On one hand free trade is bad because it (supposedly) hurts workers (hence the unions being fans of tariffs to protect their industries even though it has negative repercussions across the entire economy) yet tariffs are now bad because it increases the cost of goods.

It's like folks want the cheap goods but don't want the free trade that is the cause of them.

Tariffs are the opposite of free trade. We were freer before Daffy started gumping it all up. His tariff will be met with actions by China. That game has one loser, American consumers. China thinks long term. Trump does not have any economic understanding.

 

[dukkha]

it isn't an exact science but we certainly agree this does hurt American consumers, which is my point..

IMHO had trump not gone this alone, pushed away our allies instead of having them join us, the outcomes would be much better........

While I wish for our country to succeeded in the claims we/the world have against China, I do not see trump's current course of tariffs ever accomplishing that, & I hope I am wrong.....

US-China talks are for a bi-lateral agreement

 

[dukkha]

We do not benefit equally- conflicting interests are obvious, & different conclusions result..

IN the case in the OP our costs on good from china is going up dramatically, what do you think about that??

US importers can also shift suppliers -manufacturers and assemblers are leaving China for other east Asia countries

 

[dukkha]

No breaks today.....

Yea, except China aint Mexico is it.... Small detail but an important one.......

He only has one card-tariffs=tax on Americans.

He played it, didn't work, he played it again, didn't work, so he plays it again & expects a different result??

China talks continue. like I said I expect them to go into his next term,

China is using a bunch of stimulus and currency manipulation -recall internal Chinese hawks are casting this as the new Opium war.
It's gonna take time

 

[John Barron]

US importers can also shift suppliers -manufacturers and assemblers are leaving China for other east Asia countries

It would have been smarter to wait until they had moved then.

 

[cawacko]

We do not benefit equally- conflicting interests are obvious, & different conclusions result..

IN the case in the OP our costs on good from china is going up dramatically, what do you think about that??

You're right we don't benefit equally from free trade just like we don't benefit equally from tariffs or almost anything. The world is never going to be equal. So admittedly I'm sort of missing on that.

I thought I've made myself clear in this thread and over the past few years that I support free trade and not tariffs. But if I haven't I'll say it again. I don't support this trade war. I didn't support when W. put tariffs on steel after the 2000 elections as a 'thank you' to Ohio and Michigan. I've never supported unions who have wanted tariffs to protect their workers (and hurt the rest of the economy). It's not about who is in office. I supported TPP even though Obama was President. Tariffs are ultimately taxes on American consumers. I do not support them.

One can disagree with me in my support for free trade and against the tariffs and the trade war. But I feel like I've been pretty consistent in my position over the years.

 

[cawacko]

Tariffs are the opposite of free trade. We were freer before Daffy started gumping it all up. His tariff will be met with actions by China. That game has one loser, American consumers. China thinks long term. Trump does not have any economic understanding.

Thank you Captain Obvious?

 

[Sailor]

Obviously 'slave labor' in the literal sense is not acceptable. But too often people look at what people earn in other countries and forget to look at purchasing power and cost of living in those countries.

People do the same domestically. Cost of living has to be factored in. It costs a lot more to live in Manhattan, San Fran etc... than it does to live in Mobile or Nashville.

I understand the first part certainly ( income vs. where you live). Abusive labor practices, child labor, literal slave labor, etc. however used for products sold in America are completely ignored by the left as long as they can get something cheaper. That is my point. They talk out their back sides.

 

[dukkha]

You're right we don't benefit equally from free trade just like we don't benefit equally from tariffs or almost anything. The world is never going to be equal. So admittedly I'm sort of missing on that.

I thought I've made myself clear in this thread and over the past few years that I support free trade and not tariffs. I don't support this trade war. I didn't support when W. put tariffs on steel after the 2000 elections as a 'thank you' to Ohio and Michigan. I've never supported unions who have wanted tariffs to protect their workers (and hurt the rest of the economy). It's not about who is in office. I supported TPP even though Obama was President. Tariffs are ultimately taxes on American consumers. I do not support them.

One can disagree with me in my support for free trade and against the tariffs and the trade war. But I feel like I've been pretty consistent in my position over the years.

OMG..
the TPP would completely disadvantage us because we'd not be be to use the leverage of the SIZE of our economy.

We'd be enjoined by international corporate atty's instead -even our sovereignty could have been sued..

if you want free trade you gotta have fair trade as well

 

[Bill]

US importers can also shift suppliers -manufacturers and assemblers are leaving China for other east Asia countries

Are they doing this for free?? Is trump subsidizing that?? Or will these be costs passed on to American consumers as they attempt to get around these trump taxes??? asking for a friend..

 

[Bill]

China talks continue. like I said I expect them to go into his next term,

China is using a bunch of stimulus and currency manipulation -recall internal Chinese hawks are casting this as the new Opium war.
It's gonna take time

Yes, I have heard that numerous times...... The great humiliation, & they are adamant it will not happen again....

 

[cawacko]

OMG..
the TPP would completely disadvantage us because we'd not be be to use the leverage of the SIZE of our economy.

We'd be enjoined by international corporate atty's instead -even our sovereignty could have been sued..

if you want free trade you gotta have fair trade as well

You and I obviously have very different views of trade. And that's fine. People can disagree and hold differing viewpoints.

While the TPP wasn't free trade, managed trade is the better term, it still advanced economic freedoms. Admittedly I don't have the desire at the moment to get into the weeds on why we should have signed the agreement but people can disagree.

 

[Bill]

You're right we don't benefit equally from free trade just like we don't benefit equally from tariffs or almost anything. The world is never going to be equal. So admittedly I'm sort of missing on that.

I thought I've made myself clear in this thread and over the past few years that I support free trade and not tariffs. But if I haven't I'll say it again. I don't support this trade war. I didn't support when W. put tariffs on steel after the 2000 elections as a 'thank you' to Ohio and Michigan. I've never supported unions who have wanted tariffs to protect their workers (and hurt the rest of the economy). It's not about who is in office. I supported TPP even though Obama was President. Tariffs are ultimately taxes on American consumers. I do not support them.

One can disagree with me in my support for free trade and against the tariffs and the trade war. But I feel like I've been pretty consistent in my position over the years.

You have been pretty consistent....

They say free trade really isn't free.....

Like we have few or no restrictions & china has them on US products, is that free trade??

I gave an example a few months ago about by daughter purchasing tiny things for projects for less than a dollar & free shipping from RED CHINA...

Why in the world, in 2019 is the US subsidizing Chinese small business??? TOTALLY STUPID!!

 

[Gonzomin]

the worse that happens is the status quo.
I love you guys - sit around and criticize Trump for his style, never give him credit, and bitch about inanities.

Trumps de-regulations ( more then even the tax cuts) primed the pump for this booming economy.

Then he takes on THE MOST DIFFICULT TASK OF ALL - passed down thru various POTUS like North Korea and China trade.

NK is not firing ICBMS. they aren't denuking,but Trump clearly got threat reductions from Kim.

China will come thru when they HAVE TO come thru -keep up the pressures until they do.

Hilary would not have touched any of these problems, we'd be debating PC standards instead if she had won

What kind of fantasy world do you live in? The economic trajectory is the same as Obama left Trump. There is no boom. The economy was doing the same before the dereg. Citizens, like you, do not understand regulations are for their protection. Corporations will pollute everything in the name of greed. They will cheat and dump.
NK is shooting missiles 3 times a week, What kind of an accomplishment is that? They have continued their nuke program unabated. That is a Trump victory. All smoke and mirrors.
China thinks long term. They are under no obligation to help Daffys reelection. They would probably want to trust a saner and level headed president. Trump is in a class of crazy all by himself.

 

[cawacko]

You have been pretty consistent....

They say free trade really isn't free.....

Like we have few or no restrictions & china has them on US products, is that free trade??

I gave an example a few months ago about by daughter purchasing tiny things for projects for less than a dollar & free shipping from RED CHINA...

Why in the world, in 2019 is the US subsidizing Chinese small business??? TOTALLY STUPID!!

If we had true free trade there would be zero tariffs or restrictions and basically nothing stopping people from the exchange of goods. Obviously we don't have that. A description of free trade I heard that I like is it's understood as the free market idea applied to international trade. So "free trade" often mean trade deals or agreements that attempt to remove or reduce tariffs, quotas or restrictions between countries.

As always there are competing interests. Certain industries want tariffs to protect their workers even if those tariffs raise prices and hurt workers in another industry. It's never going to be a simple or easy process. It's always going to be a battle.

 

[Gonzomin]

You and I obviously have very different views of trade. And that's fine. People can disagree and hold differing viewpoints.

While the TPP wasn't free trade, managed trade is the better term, it still advanced economic freedoms. Admittedly I don't have the desire at the moment to get into the weeds on why we should have signed the agreement but people can disagree.

It was a trade agreement between Asian nations and the US which dealt China out. In principle a big advantage.

 

[cawacko]

It was a trade agreement between Asian nations and the US which dealt China out. In principle a big advantage.

Again, thank you Captain Obvious?