Tariff Man is back, and American consumers will pay for it

[dukkha]

It is importers who pay the tariffs. Consumers pay in higher prices. Caterpillar says the tariffs increased their costs 70 million dollars. They are raising prices and are less competitive internationally. Walmart says they had to raise prices due to extra costs. Steel and aluminum users say they raised prices 9 percent on appliances and other products.
The American consumer pays higher prices.

no shit. so where is this "damper" Business is booming

 

[dukkha]

Yes but Mr. Owl says otherwise, to wit, to woo! He can also swivel his head like Linda Blair in the Exorcist.

anyone that can swivel their head can't be all wrong

 

[dukkha]

Trump is doing the right thing, too many others have let the Chinese get away with blue murder, he's standing up to them!

exactly. and we can see how difficult it is to confront China
-which is why previous POTUS complaints to the WTO have gotten nowhere.

we need this new agreement and we need enforcement procedure ( something else China is balking about)

 

[dukkha]

Trump on Tuesday warned China against waiting out his first term to finalize any trade deal, saying the outcome would be worse for China if he wins re-election in November 2020. His administration had wanted to avoid lengthy negotiations.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a news briefing that the United States is the one that continues to “flip-flop.”

“It’s pointless to tell others to take medication when you’re the one who is sick,” she said.

Trump hoped to leverage a downturn in the Chinese economy to force China into a deal.

An official Chinese government survey released on Wednesday showed factory activity shrank for a straight third month in July, underlining the growing strains the dispute has placed on the world’s No. 2 economy.

Relations between the two governments have worsened since trade talks collapsed in May, when the United States said Beijing had reneged on commitments to make wide-ranging trade policy reforms.

The two sides are at odds over many issues beyond trade, including protests in Hong Kong and China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea. U.S. authorities have stepped up prosecutions of Chinese citizens on espionage and other charges.

On Wednesday, U.S. prosecutors announced the indictment of a high-profile Chinese billionaire for conspiring to evade $1.8 billion of tariffs by smuggling huge amounts of aluminum into the United States.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...talks-constructive-beijing-says-idUSKCN1UQ032

 

[Sailor]

I enjoy discussing politics with you, my friend, but when you run off the rails and into the hyperbole forest, I'm done. Sorry. I'm one of those fucking Democrats that pays for plenty out of her own pockets, whether it's donating to charities that help others (not just animals), or choosing locally-grown over the much cheaper mass-produced foods, or --when we were both working -- paying more in taxes per year than many people make. And I am a former union worker as well.

Have a nice night.

All Democrats claim that. Until time to do it or prove it.

 

[Bill]

I've heard interviews with farmers on NPR who said they are currently getting sh*t on yet still support the trade war because they think it will be beneficial long term.

In theory i could be ok with short term pain if there's a long term benefit. A number of people might point to Volker and what he did with interest rates to crush inflation as an example.

I just don't see it happening here.

Yes I heard that as well, note past tense... Even w/ the handouts they can't stay afloat a lot longer-these hand-outs are not covering their full loss, they still are not sure if they can plant certain crops (+floods etc) & they have lost, perhaps permanently the customers they spent years developing, perhaps for ever..

What is the long term gain for them?? Lose all this money, loser your best customers & be back to square one MINUS ALL THAT..........???

IMHO this is a very long term loss for farmers for a short term gain, perhaps, for trump.........

I do feel sorry for them, but the reason this is happening to them is that support~ so China is directing right @ them......

Those farms have everything to lose, trump & china not so much.......

One farmer called it, he calls us patriots so we shut the fuck up & stay w/ him...... IMHO that farmer is exactly right......... He no more cares about them than he did the contractors he told to eat sand he aint paying.........

 

[dukkha]

Yes I heard that as well, note past tense... Even w/ the handouts they can't stay afloat a lot longer-these hand-outs are not covering their full loss, they still are not sure if they can plant certain crops (+floods etc) & they have lost, perhaps permanently the customers they spent years developing, perhaps for ever..

What is the long term gain for them?? Lose all this money, loser your best customers & be back to square one MINUS ALL THAT..........???

IMHO this is a very long term loss for farmers for a short term gain, perhaps, for trump.........

I do feel sorry for them, but the reason this is happening to them is that support~ so China is directing right @ them......

Those farms have everything to lose, trump & china not so much.......

One farmer called it, he calls us patriots so we shut the fuck up & stay w/ him...... IMHO that farmer is exactly right......... He no more cares about them than he did the contractors he told to eat sand he aint paying.........

ridiculous narrowing in on farmers - China is targeting them and they might lose soybean supply chains, but they'll get it back.
Sure farmers are hurting, one reason tariff relief is targeted to them

what do you want to do? let China focus on farmers and ignore the entire US economy?

Because this is it. we aren't going to go thru trade talks again,so suck it up and support Trump and Lighthizer to do what can be done to solve the China fiasco handed to Trump

 

[Bill]

The big sticking point with China isn't the Intellectual Property theft -it's our demand they change their corps away from the SOE ( state owned enterprise) models - and yes they are never gonna change that.

But the negotiations process complaint is their slow walking on EVERYTHING.
They are hoping Trump doesn't get re-elected and can continue their malign practices

The tariffs are hurting them MUCH MORE then us,and more tariffs mean more pressure.

They've been able to use the mercantile acquired cash reserves as a stimulus for their economy,
but even there the Chinese GDP is slowing, and thy cannot continue on that path given their design
for the "one belt one road " ( new silk road) initiatives

it would GREATLY HELP if we ratified our NAFTA 2 agreement, to show China we a re capable of action and not just
spinning our wheels on trade agreements

WHo are we to tell them, or any other VERY, VERY successful country to change how they run their VERY VERY successful country??

What would we say if they told us to change our government, how we run or capitalism etc??

Why not tell them to make it rain on Tuesday in El Paso @ 3PM or we will ()&(*)(*%% impotent threat.........

I don't believe it is hurting them all that bad........... Is their economy still growing a lot faster than ours?? yes or no...........

Will ping be facing an election soon??

He is in a much better position to control the spill w/ the Chinese public-control the narrative.......

trump lost IMHO, he has nothing to show & thus is playing the only card he has, more taxes on American consumers.......

 

[cawacko]

Yes I heard that as well, note past tense... Even w/ the handouts they can't stay afloat a lot longer-these hand-outs are not covering their full loss, they still are not sure if they can plant certain crops (+floods etc) & they have lost, perhaps permanently the customers they spent years developing, perhaps for ever..

What is the long term gain for them?? Lose all this money, loser your best customers & be back to square one MINUS ALL THAT..........???

IMHO this is a very long term loss for farmers for a short term gain, perhaps, for trump.........

I do feel sorry for them, but the reason this is happening to them is that support~ so China is directing right @ them......

Those farms have everything to lose, trump & china not so much.......

One farmer called it, he calls us patriots so we shut the fuck up & stay w/ him...... IMHO that farmer is exactly right......... He no more cares about them than he did the contractors he told to eat sand he aint paying.........

TBH, I just don't know that much about farming so I can't really speak to their industry and the ins and outs.

I'm a free trader. I know with free trade and globalization there are folks who get hurt. On the whole we as Americans benefit from it but it's not without downsides.

I'm sure folks who support going after China like we are would say something similar.

 

[dukkha]

WHo are we to tell them, or any other VERY, VERY successful country to change how they run their VERY VERY successful country??

What would we say if they told us to change our government, how we run or capitalism etc??

Why not tell them to make in rain on Tuesday in El Paso @ 3PM or the deal is off.........

I don't believe it is hurting them all that bad........... Is there economy still growing a lot faster than ours?? yes or no...........

Will ping be facing an election soon??

He is in a much better position to control the spill w/ the Chinese public-control the narrative.......

trump lost IMHO, he has nothing to show & thus is playing the only card he has, more taxes on American consumers.......

I already explained why they need rapid growth -tofund initiatives like the New Silk Road -all that infrastructure and housing.
Plus they are trying to grow their middleclass.

I agree their SOE's are their business -we complain though because they can pump money right into a SOE
that would otherwise are failing. It's an unfair advantage,but we have to live with it

 

[Bill]

In his MAGA rally tonight, he said "the era of economics surrender is over". Go Trump!

lol, as he plays the only card he has, put more taxes on Americans in hopes that will convince china not to steal from our companies & allow us a level playing field.

You believe what makes you feel best.. It works for us all........

 

[dukkha]

Will ping be facing an election soon??

He is in a much better position to control the spill w/ the Chinese public-control the narrative.......

he's POTUS for life

trump lost IMHO, he has nothing to show & thus is playing the only card he has, more taxes on American consumers.......

it isn't over until it's over..nobody said this was going to be easy.
China has every incentive to do nothing -w have to push them -hence tariffs

 

[dukkha]

lol, as he plays the only card he has, put more taxes on Americans in hopes that will convince china not to steal from our companies & allow us a level playing field.

You believe what makes you feel best.. It works for us all........

IPR theft will be part of the agreement.
China is balking at enforcement measures as well. we keep this up until they bend

It's WAY TOO IMPORTANT to let it slide

 

[Bill]

Trump on Tuesday warned China against waiting out his first term to finalize any trade deal, saying the outcome would be worse for China if he wins re-election in November 2020. His administration had wanted to avoid lengthy negotiations.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a news briefing that the United States is the one that continues to “flip-flop.”

“It’s pointless to tell others to take medication when you’re the one who is sick,” she said.

Trump hoped to leverage a downturn in the Chinese economy to force China into a deal.

An official Chinese government survey released on Wednesday showed factory activity shrank for a straight third month in July, underlining the growing strains the dispute has placed on the world’s No. 2 economy.

Relations between the two governments have worsened since trade talks collapsed in May, when the United States said Beijing had reneged on commitments to make wide-ranging trade policy reforms.

The two sides are at odds over many issues beyond trade, including protests in Hong Kong and China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea. U.S. authorities have stepped up prosecutions of Chinese citizens on espionage and other charges.

On Wednesday, U.S. prosecutors announced the indictment of a high-profile Chinese billionaire for conspiring to evade $1.8 billion of tariffs by smuggling huge amounts of aluminum into the United States.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...talks-constructive-beijing-says-idUSKCN1UQ032

Hardly his first time making this empty threat...... What is he going to do about it?? NOTHING, a childish empty threat..........

More taxes for US consumers, that will show them whose boss...........

 

[dukkha]

it would GREATLY HELP if we ratified our NAFTA 2 agreement, to show China we a re capable of action and not just
spinning our wheels on trade agreements

ya oughta be complaining about Pelosi instead of Trump going after the problem

 

[dukkha]

Hardly his first time making this empty threat...... What is he going to do about it?? NOTHING, a childish empty threat..........

More taxes for US consumers, that will show them whose boss...........

WTF do you mean "nothing" WTF do you think tariffs are ?? nothing??

Look this might very well take a 2nd term -for the good of the country I for one sure as hope he gets re-elects.

can you imagine BIDEN doing this?? ROFL..

Now quit bitchin' and start pressuring Pelosi to vote on NAFTA 2.

 

[Bill]

ridiculous narrowing in on farmers - China is targeting them and they might lose soybean supply chains, but they'll get it back.
Sure farmers are hurting, one reason tariff relief is targeted to them

what do you want to do? let China focus on farmers and ignore the entire US economy?

Because this is it. we aren't going to go thru trade talks again,so suck it up and support Trump and Lighthizer to do what can be done to solve the China fiasco handed to Trump

Sorry, I support America, not the poser in the wht house that sold himself as a deal maker that can only make threats.....

Perhaps in his life forcing himself on others payed off, it aint paying off so well on china & those farmers..

 

[Phantasmal]

Who is going to make a deal with Trump? They know he can just change his mind. He is not a trusted person. His word is meaningless.

Trump is as fickle as a fart in a wind storm. He lies, he makes promises he can’t keep, it’s why his own lawyers traveled in twos to do business with him. He could not be trusted.

 

[Phantasmal]

Sorry, I support America, not the poser in the wht house that sold himself as a deal maker that can only make threats.....

Perhaps in his life forcing himself on others payed off, it aint paying off so well on china & those farmers..

Amen

 

[Cypress]

New York (CNN Business)The Tariff Man is back. President Donald Trump's newly proposed tariffs on China would be particularly bad news for US consumers.
Investors sold off well-known retail and tech stocks in response, because they would get hit hardest by the additional tariffs.

"Tariffs are taxes on American consumers," said Rick Helfenbein, president and CEO of the American Apparel & Footwear Association. "The president's decision to proceed with adding these additional costs for hard-working American families is truly shocking."

Trump tweeted Thursday that he's proposing an additional 10% tariff on $300 billion's worth of Chinese-made products entering the United States. That includes things like smartphones, toys, footwear and many other consumer goods. ​

"American families shouldn't be a pawn in this trade war," said Hun Quach, vice president of international trade for the Retail Industry Leaders Association. "Today's announcement only moves us closer to consumers bearing the brunt of the pain."​

​

The National Retail Federation said it is disappointed the administration is doubling down on tarrifs.
"These additional tariffs will only threaten US jobs and raise costs for American families on everyday goods," said David French, senior vice president for government relations at the NRF. "The tariffs imposed over the past year haven't worked, and there's no evidence another tax increase on American businesses and consumers will yield new results."​

Investors weren't happy either. Shares of Best Buy (BBY) plunged more than 10%. Nike (NKE) was down 3%. Hasbro (HAS) fell 5% while rival toymaker Mattel (MAT) was down 7%. Apple (AAPL) fell about 2.5% while Chinese e-commerce giant Alibaba (BABA) was down more than 4%.
And the SPDR S&P Retail ETF (XRT), which counts Dillard's (DDS), Abercrombie & Fitch (ANF), Guess? (GES), L Brands (LB) and Kohl's (KSS) among its top 10 holdings, lost about 3%. Target (TGT) was down nearly 5%.​

"Uncertainty will dampen business investment and trade flows," said Elena Duggar, Moody's associate managing director.
She said American consumers will pay higher prices for everyday items, such as electronics, clothing, footware and toys, because of the tariffs.
Semiconductor stocks, which have a big presence in China, also plunged due to worries that China could retaliate with further tariffs against the US tech industry.

The Philadelphia Semiconductor Index (SOX) fell 2%, led by drops in Intel (INTC), AMD (AMD), Nvidia (NVDA), Qualcomm (QCOM) and Broadcom (AVGO).
That led to a dramatic turnaround on Wall Street Thursday, with the Dow swinging from a 300-point gain earlier in the day to a more than 250-point loss.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/01/inve...:+rss/cnn_topstories+(RSS:+CNN+-+Top+Stories)

On principle, I have zero problem with tarriffs being used to protect American economic interests, when used judiciously, as a last resort, and after careful deliberation.

My problem is that I have no confidence that a dim-witted game show host actually knows what he is doing, that he bothers to do any homework, educate himself, or practice careful deliberation and introspection. So, if I had my preferences, I would not put the mediocre game-show host Donald Trump in charge of trade policy and tarriff policy.