The Current trump failure

anatta said:
we are well on the way to a vaccine -which also produces herd immunity -
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With normal vaccines, 80% of vaccines that get large-scale clinical trial completely fail. Best guess is Covid-19 will be worse. The immune reaction to Covid-19 is weak, so normal vaccines are failing. The novel proposed vaccines have much higher failure rates.

Then there is the issue of manufacturing the vaccines. trump has placed his hopes that everything will work out well, and so has "saved money" by not trying to overproduce vaccines. Given that the odds are extremely against us, we should be "wasting" money by building too much manufacturing. That way some of it will probably work.
 
anatta said:
Study Suggests COVID-19 Antibodies Last at Least 4 Months
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The very successful vaccines count on antibodies lasting for a lifetime, or at least decades. When you are talking about months, you are talking about a very difficult issue.
 
Walt said:
With normal vaccines, 80% of vaccines that get large-scale clinical trial completely fail. Best guess is Covid-19 will be worse. The immune reaction to Covid-19 is weak, so normal vaccines are failing. The novel proposed vaccines have much higher failure rates.

Then there is the issue of manufacturing the vaccines. trump has placed his hopes that everything will work out well, and so has "saved money" by not trying to overproduce vaccines. Given that the odds are extremely against us, we should be "wasting" money by building too much manufacturing. That way some of it will probably work.
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Something to consider:
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...-distribute-vaccines-on-nov-1?ocid=uxbndlbing
 
Darth Omar said:
How many [quarantine induced] opioid overdoes have had a ‘positive’ PCR test?

I’m to the point I’m skeptical of all the numbers.
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You should be, America is a very corrupt place and our experts suck.

Given that the experts are finally figuring out how to treat this and given that the bug is evolving into a less lethal form as expected and we might even have a vaccine soon......and given that it is pretty clear that the lockdowns should have ended in May.....that the Sweds were right...I am thinking about taking more risks.

I dont know that answer to your question but if you are following the opioid problem you will want to look at this:

September 1, 2020 12:21PM
Some Politicians Remain in a State of Denial About the Overdose Crisis
Policymakers’ misguided focus on prescribers of pain medication has already caused countless patients to suffer needlessly. Many have turned to street drugs to get relief. Others have turned to suicide. H.R. 7701, if passed, will only exacerbate this “humanitarian issue.”

Dr. Madara was correct when he stated in his June 16 letter to the CDC:
The nation no longer has a prescription opioid‐​driven epidemic. However, we are now facing an unprecedented, multi‐​factorial and much more dangerous overdose and drug epidemic driven by heroin and illicitly manufactured fentanyl, fentanyl analogs, and stimulants. We can no longer afford to view increasing drug‐​related mortality through a prescription opioid‐​myopic lens. This is why the AMA continues its aggressive advocacy efforts in support of patients with pain and those with a substance use disorder as well as broad support for harm reduction policies and practices that address the wide range of factors affecting patients. The nation’s opioid epidemic has never been just about prescription opioids, and we encourage CDC to take a broader view of how to help ensure patients have access to evidence‐ based comprehensive care that includes multidisciplinary, multimodal pain care options as well as efforts to remove the stigma that patients with pain experience on a regular basis.
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https://www.cato.org/blog/some-politicians-remain-state-denial-about-overdose-crisis

The law of unintended consequences strikes again, except that we should have known that driving people to use street drugs instead of safe Big Pharma products was going to be a health problem.

Apparently our experts did not think that far.
 
he nation no longer has a prescription opioid‐​driven epidemic. However, we are now facing an unprecedented, multi‐​factorial and much more dangerous overdose and drug epidemic driven by heroin and illicitly manufactured fentanyl, fentanyl analogs,
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more heroin, because of less pain pills
 
TOP said:
Something to consider:
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...-distribute-vaccines-on-nov-1?ocid=uxbndlbing
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Wow, the trump administration claims they will have a cure any day now... AGAIN!!! *YAWN*

Most large-scale clinical trials fail completely. With Covid-19, it looks like it will be worse. trump has a cool name for a program to manufacture the vaccine, but not much more. If it ends up being one of the novel vaccines, which have very different manufacturing methods, it will take years to manufacture it.

And if there is no vaccine, very possible, we are screwed.
 
Walt said:
The very successful vaccines count on antibodies lasting for a lifetime, or at least decades. When you are talking about months, you are talking about a very difficult issue.
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these are NOT vaccines and you are WRONG.
Flu shots have to be given every year (virus)

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. I wont even go intp T-cells and memory cells

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell
Lymphocytes are one of the main types of immune cells. Lymphocytes are divided mainly into B and T cells.
B lymphocytes produce antibodies - proteins (gamma globulins) that recognize foreign substances (antigen) and attach themselves to them. B lymphocytes (or B cells) are each programmed to make one specific antibody.
 
Walt said:
Wow, the trump administration claims they will have a cure any day now... AGAIN!!! *YAWN*

Most large-scale clinical trials fail completely. With Covid-19, it looks like it will be worse. trump has a cool name for a program to manufacture the vaccine, but not much more. If it ends up being one of the novel vaccines, which have very different manufacturing methods, it will take years to manufacture it.

And if there is no vaccine, very possible, we are screwed.
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So you're hoping there's no vaccine or failed trials? That kind of hate for the president is so difficult to understand and not healthy....if you don't find a way to deal with that, you are "screwed"....;)
 
Walt said:
Wow, the trump administration claims they will have a cure any day now... AGAIN!!! *YAWN*

Most large-scale clinical trials fail completely. With Covid-19, it looks like it will be worse. trump has a cool name for a program to manufacture the vaccine, but not much more. If it ends up being one of the novel vaccines, which have very different manufacturing methods, it will take years to manufacture it.

And if there is no vaccine, very possible, we are screwed.
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what kind of horseshit is this?
do you have any idea of the numerous trials being run and the numerous vaccines under development.

And the "Operation Warp Speed" means that they get manufactured and didtributed while the FDA approves the use -so it's pre-positioned to go.. Has Biden ever mentioned this?? ROFL -no
 
TOP said:
So you're hoping there's no vaccine or failed trials? That kind of hate for the president is so difficult to understand and not healthy....if you don't find a way to deal with that, you are "screwed"....;)
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I am hoping there is a vaccine. That being said, I think it is a mistake to count on the first vaccine working perfectly. We need to be over-investing in this.

If this was a standard virus, then we would need 10 vaccines hitting large-scale clinical trials to have a 90% chance of one of them working. That is 10 vaccines with 10 different manufacturing methods. And that is assuming a standard virus, Covid-19 seems far more difficult.

We should be working to get 10 times capacity or more. Instead trump is looking at 1 or 2% of that.
 
Darth Omar said:
And no masks.

Herd immunity hasn’t been ruled out in Sweden. Or NYC, for that matter.
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Or Africa:

Coronavirus in Africa: Scientists explore surprise explanation for low death rate
The idea is that, by studying the PBMCs, the scientists might find evidence that people had been widely infected by other coronaviruses - those, for instance, responsible for many common colds - and that, as a result, they might enjoy some degree of immunity to Covid-19.

"It's a hypothesis. Some level of pre-existing cross-protective immunity… might explain why the epidemic didn't unfold [the way it did in other parts of the world]," said Prof Madhi, explaining that data from scientists in the US appeared to support the hypothesis.

Colds and flu are, of course, commonplace around the world.

But the South African scientists wondered whether, because those viruses spread more effectively in overcrowded neighbourhoods, poorer communities might have been more widely exposed and therefore, enjoy a larger degree of immunity towards Covid-19.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-africa-could-poverty-explain-231532235.html

Of course this if true means that the "Experts" who have been claiming that the economic status of People of Color makes dealing with the bug harder for them, the social justice push that they claimed to have evidence to support their claims, was the opposite of the truth....something that now happens with alarming regularity .

I have seen claims that even in America there is zero evidence that the poor suffer this bug worse as is claimed, that this is just another grand lie to push a political agenda.
 
anatta said:
do you have any idea of the numerous trials being run and the numerous vaccines under development.
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Do you have any idea how many numerous vaccines have been developed to try to combat HIV? And still none have worked.

The fact is most vaccines fail, even with relatively simple viruses. Covid-19 provokes a weak immune response, so it is not going to be simple.

anatta said:
Operation Warp Speed
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Wow, it sounds like a cool name... Sadly, there is not much behind it. There is a slight chance it will work, but that is only slight.

What we really need to be doing is placing as many bets as possible. Yes, that will lead to building manufacturing that we do not use, but it raises the chances that we will have the facilities we desperately need.
 
Walt said:
I am hoping there is a vaccine. That being said, I think it is a mistake to count on the first vaccine working perfectly. We need to be over-investing in this.

If this was a standard virus, then we would need 10 vaccines hitting large-scale clinical trials to have a 90% chance of one of them working. That is 10 vaccines with 10 different manufacturing methods. And that is assuming a standard virus, Covid-19 seems far more difficult.

We should be working to get 10 times capacity or more. Instead trump is looking at 1 or 2% of that.
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Where do you get your "trump is looking at 1 or 2% of that"? Do you think that there's not sincere effort being made to find a way to get the virus under control?
 
Walt said:
Masks are heavily recommended and used in Sweden.

You keep hoping that laziness will pay off.
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https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/sweden-bucks-trend-in-refusing-to-recommend-masks/

It’s not laziness it’s science. Herd immunity is a thing. There’s reason for optimism that cross-reactive immune components [apart from post infection COVID antibodies] show signs of conferring immunity.

There has to be a reason for so many mild infections, right?

If you’re going *strictly* by COVID antibodies, yes, we’re in for a long haul. But you’re very likely wrong. You should take solace in this lol.
 
TOP said:
Where do you get your "trump is looking at 1 or 2% of that"? Do you think that there's not sincere effort being made to find a way to get the virus under control?
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If we need 10 times capacity, and trump is building 10% to 20% of capacity, that would be 1 to 2% of what we need. The math of that one is simple.

How much contact tracing is happening in the USA? The British are apologizing for only doing 80% of the contact tracing... In America it is closer to 0%. There is some private contact tracing, and a tiny amount of local government contact tracing, but nothing beyond that little amount.

So when it comes to contact tracing, it is hard to argue there is a sincere effort being made in the USA.

Look at most of the posts by the Alt Right, and you will see a pattern. They are hoping that magically Covid-19 will go away. That is not being willing to put a sincere effort into it, but just hoping we get lucky.
 
TOP said:
Where do you get your "trump is looking at 1 or 2% of that"? Do you think that there's not sincere effort being made to find a way to get the virus under control?
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Certainly a lot of money is going out the door for treatments and vaccines and studies.
 
Walt said:
If we need 10 times capacity, and trump is building 10% to 20% of capacity, that would be 1 to 2% of what we need. The math of that one is simple.

How much contact tracing is happening in the USA? The British are apologizing for only doing 80% of the contact tracing... In America it is closer to 0%. There is some private contact tracing, and a tiny amount of local government contact tracing, but nothing beyond that little amount.

So when it comes to contact tracing, it is hard to argue there is a sincere effort being made in the USA.

Look at most of the posts by the Alt Right, and you will see a pattern. They are hoping that magically Covid-19 will go away. That is not being willing to put a sincere effort into it, but just hoping we get lucky.
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Contact tracing is useless given where we are, how do you not know this?
 
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