Maybe There Isn't Going to be an Iraqistan

Southern Man said:
Actually, the links between Saddam and bin Laden have been well documented.

Our long term presence in Iraq with an established base will deter the Iran leaders from attempting to mess with Iraq. The Iraq democracy will be a huge incentive for a revolution in Iran, and the radical Islamic leaders will be overthrown, dragged into the streets, and hung.
Click to expand...

Totally misinformed response .. and frankly given the plethora of evidence available, there is no excuse for being this misinformed.

Saddam and Bin Laden did not share mutual interests and Saddam had no desire to see the kind of strict Islamic Law imposed on Iraq that Bin Laden represented.

Respectfully, it is downright stupid to suggest otherwise.

Saddam's possession of WMD was also "well-documented" .. how did that turn out?

Your belief that Iraq will stand as some glowing temple for democracy is completely braindead and demonstrates that you have no, ZERO, understanding of politics or societies of Iraq or Iran.

In case your TV is broke, Iraq is booting us the fuck out of their country as they just booted Blackwater the fuck out.
 
Southern Man,

I recognize how middling things like facts, truth, evidence, and common sense often get in the way of ideology .. so feel free to ignore this ...

Low turnout in Iraq's election reflects a disillusioned nation

BAGHDAD * Voter turnout in Iraq's provincial elections Saturday was the lowest in the nation's short history as a new democracy despite a relative calm across the nation. Only about 7.5 million of more than 14 million registered voters went to the polls.

Interviews suggest that the low voter turnout also is an indication of Iraqi disenchantment with a democracy that, so far, has brought them very little.

Since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 and the fall of a brutal dictator, Iraqis witnessed unprecedented violence in their nation and what they believe is humiliation under a foreign occupation. Even on Saturday, U.S. tanks could be spotted across Baghdad on largely empty roads.

Following elections in 2005 Iraq spiraled into a sectarian war. People cowered in their homes while others literally killed each other in the streets. Many here feel the people they elected were party to or were at least complicit in the violence. The security forces too were feared as sectarian death squads and Iraqis also believed that American raids or passing U.S. tanks sometimes resulted in innocent civilian deaths.

Many blame the U.S. presence in Iraq for sowing the seeds of sectarianism by bringing back exiles to rule them.
http://www.kansascity.com/659/story/1012373.html
 
because your a republican tool of very limited education and narrow minded.
I'm ashamed your souther, but you have a lot of company down here.
 
blackascoal said:
Totally misinformed response .. and frankly given the plethora of evidence available, there is no excuse for being this misinformed.

Saddam and Bin Laden did not share mutual interests and Saddam had no desire to see the kind of strict Islamic Law imposed on Iraq that Bin Laden represented.

Respectfully, it is downright stupid to suggest otherwise.

Saddam's possession of WMD was also "well-documented" .. how did that turn out?

Your belief that Iraq will stand as some glowing temple for democracy is completely braindead and demonstrates that you have no, ZERO, understanding of politics or societies of Iraq or Iran.

In case your TV is broke, Iraq is booting us the fuck out of their country as they just booted Blackwater the fuck out.
Click to expand...

I see from your use of foul language that you are getting emotional. But it is the facts, not your emotions, that rule the argument.

Although Saddam did not share the radical Islamic theology of bin-Laden, he was shrewd enough to use it to further his goals. His support of bin Laden and terrorism is again, well documented and undeniable.

Just as Saddam's ownership of WMD stockpiles, precursors, technologies and shrewdness to disperse these and hide them is well documented or suported by strong theories based on events that occurred shortly before and during the US invasion.

My understanding of Iranian culture is from direct sources who were there when the Shah was overthrown, still communicate with relatives in country, and live in the US pursuing the fruits of capitalism and democracy not unlike myself.
 
Topspin said:
because your a republican tool of very limited education and narrow minded.
I'm ashamed your souther, but you have a lot of company down here.
Click to expand...
Actually, I consider myself to be a Conservative, and in fact was an elected official of the Conservative Party of New York, when I lived there for several years pursuing a Master's degree and career in environmental engineering. Before that I received a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering, Cum Laude, from a prestigious university in Massachusetts.

So much for your narrow minded theory: liberal snob ownage. :)
 
blackascoal said:
Southern Man,

I recognize how middling things like facts, truth, evidence, and common sense often get in the way of ideology .. so feel free to ignore this ...

Low turnout in Iraq's election reflects a disillusioned nation

BAGHDAD * Voter turnout in Iraq's provincial elections Saturday was the lowest in the nation's short history as a new democracy despite a relative calm across the nation. Only about 7.5 million of more than 14 million registered voters went to the polls.

Interviews suggest that the low voter turnout also is an indication of Iraqi disenchantment with a democracy that, so far, has brought them very little.

Since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 and the fall of a brutal dictator, Iraqis witnessed unprecedented violence in their nation and what they believe is humiliation under a foreign occupation. Even on Saturday, U.S. tanks could be spotted across Baghdad on largely empty roads.

Following elections in 2005 Iraq spiraled into a sectarian war. People cowered in their homes while others literally killed each other in the streets. Many here feel the people they elected were party to or were at least complicit in the violence. The security forces too were feared as sectarian death squads and Iraqis also believed that American raids or passing U.S. tanks sometimes resulted in innocent civilian deaths.

Many blame the U.S. presence in Iraq for sowing the seeds of sectarianism by bringing back exiles to rule them.
http://www.kansascity.com/659/story/1012373.html
Click to expand...

Nice editorial disguised as a report. It does not surprise me that you would be fooled. Getting duped by the press is standard fare for followers of the liberal theology.

54% participation in a mid-term election is a high percentage for any modern democracy. :)
 
Southern Man said:
Actually, I consider myself to be a Conservative, and in fact was an elected official of the Conservative Party of New York, when I lived there for several years pursuing a Master's degree and career in environmental engineering. Before that I received a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering, Cum Laude, from a prestigious university in Massachusetts.

So much for your narrow minded theory: liberal snob ownage. :)
Click to expand...

wow, you have that much education and are not embarrassed to be a Bush pawn
 
Topspin said:
wow, you have that much education and are not embarrassed to be a Bush pawn
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Wow, in spite of my stated elected capacity, you can't fathom the fact that I am a Conservative first, a Republican distant second.

Admit that you have been pwned, as it will only be more embarrassing for you as time goes on.
 
Southern Man said:
I see from your use of foul language that you are getting emotional. But it is the facts, not your emotions, that rule the argument.

Although Saddam did not share the radical Islamic theology of bin-Laden, he was shrewd enough to use it to further his goals. His support of bin Laden and terrorism is again, well documented and undeniable.

Just as Saddam's ownership of WMD stockpiles, precursors, technologies and shrewdness to disperse these and hide them is well documented or suported by strong theories based on events that occurred shortly before and during the US invasion.

My understanding of Iranian culture is from direct sources who were there when the Shah was overthrown, still communicate with relatives in country, and live in the US pursuing the fruits of capitalism and democracy not unlike myself.
Click to expand...

Feel free to term my use of foul-language as ebonics if you like, although it's best described as my response to ignorance. What you posted desverved no less than a profanity-spiced response. .. and, it is your ignorance of facts that rule this argument.

CIA Learned in '02 That Bin Laden Had No Iraq Ties, Report Says

The CIA learned in late September 2002 from a high-level member of Saddam Hussein's inner circle that Iraq had no past or present contact with Osama bin Laden and that the Iraqi leader considered bin Laden an enemy of the Baghdad regime, according to a recent Senate Intelligence Committee report.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401545.html

9/11 commission: No link between bin Laden and Saddam
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5228545/

Pentagon Study Finds No Link Between Saddam, bin Laden

A Pentagon-sponsored study of 600,000 Iraqi documents captured after the 2003 invasion shows that no direct operation link existed between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88154003&ft=1&f=1001

As I've said, your ignorance of truth is what seperates our responses .. AND, it is an ignorance that EASILY countered .. as I just did.

Truth has also revealed the fallacy of the Saddam WMD claim, and the absolute braindead idiocy of continuing to foster such a ridiculous and rejected claim.

I don't give a damn if your "knowledge" of Iran came from the Shah himself, it's a ridiculous cartoonish depiction of Iran.
 
Southern Man said:
Nice editorial disguised as a report. It does not surprise me that you would be fooled. Getting duped by the press is standard fare for followers of the liberal theology.

54% participation in a mid-term election is a high percentage for any modern democracy. :)
Click to expand...

It wasn't disguised at all and it used facts to make it's point.

And "getting duped" is hilarious coming from you .. who didn't know the Saddam/Bin Laden connection had been disputed by the CIA, Pentagon, 9/11 Commission, and even Rumsfeld himself. When it comes to getting duped, you right-wingers have taken that shit ti an art-form.

Just open wide and swallow.

:)
 
Southern Man said:
Actually, I consider myself to be a Conservative, and in fact was an elected official of the Conservative Party of New York, when I lived there for several years pursuing a Master's degree and career in environmental engineering. Before that I received a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering, Cum Laude, from a prestigious university in Massachusetts.

So much for your narrow minded theory: liberal snob ownage. :)
Click to expand...

Yet you're as ignorant as a door knob on widely known and established truths.

.. it appears your degrees don't count for much in learned politics.
 
blackascoal said:
Feel free to term my use of foul-language as ebonics if you like, although it's best described as my response to ignorance. What you posted desverved no less than a profanity-spiced response. .. and, it is your ignorance of facts that rule this argument.

CIA Learned in '02 That Bin Laden Had No Iraq Ties, Report Says

The CIA learned in late September 2002 from a high-level member of Saddam Hussein's inner circle that Iraq had no past or present contact with Osama bin Laden and that the Iraqi leader considered bin Laden an enemy of the Baghdad regime, according to a recent Senate Intelligence Committee report.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401545.html

9/11 commission: No link between bin Laden and Saddam
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5228545/

Pentagon Study Finds No Link Between Saddam, bin Laden

A Pentagon-sponsored study of 600,000 Iraqi documents captured after the 2003 invasion shows that no direct operation link existed between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88154003&ft=1&f=1001

As I've said, your ignorance of truth is what seperates our responses .. AND, it is an ignorance that EASILY countered .. as I just did.

Truth has also revealed the fallacy of the Saddam WMD claim, and the absolute braindead idiocy of continuing to foster such a ridiculous and rejected claim.

I don't give a damn if your "knowledge" of Iran came from the Shah himself, it's a ridiculous cartoonish depiction of Iran.
Click to expand...
YOu can point reports like these to Southernman and the other Bush apologists till you are blue in the face. It has no effect on them. The Bush administration told them there were ties so there were ties and no amount of CIA reports, or 9-11 commission reports will ever change their mind.
 
Socrtease said:
YOu can point reports like these to Southernman and the other Bush apologists till you are blue in the face. It has no effect on them. The Bush administration told them there were ties so there were ties and no amount of CIA reports, or 9-11 commission reports will ever change their mind.
Click to expand...

That's true, but I'm not trying to change their minds or introduce them to the real world in any sense.

I'm simply making the point that they are ignorant of these truths and why their ideology should be rejected.

Actually I appreciate Southern Man posting dumb shit so I can point out how dumb it actually is.

Here's a secret .. I pay Southern Man to post dumb shit so I can look smart by easily disproving it.

You caught me. :)
 
blackascoal said:
That's true, but I'm not trying to change their minds or introduce them to the real world in any sense.

I'm simply making the point that they are ignorant of these truths and why their ideology should be rejected.

Actually I appreciate Southern Man posting dumb shit so I can point out how dumb it actually is.

Here's a secret .. I pay Southern Man to post dumb shit so I can look smart by easily disproving it.

You caught me. :)
Click to expand...


I hope you aren't paying by the word.
 
This is why I have southern man on IA. When even bush said there was no connection, and a person will go to the freepers for "information" I feel, look, any seconds I use to read any post of that person, are seconds I'm never getting back. They add up to moments.

No thanks.
 
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