Biden to eliminate oil and gas by 2035

[Into the Night]

Oooh.... look at you stomping your little ignorant foot like you're smart or something So cute!

Bulverism fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Then you, in your constant state of ignorance, won't mind actually addressing the question, or will you.

BTW, do you think maybe they add chemicals, sand, etc., to the water BEFORE beginning the fracking process, and that the residue might just be polluting the groundwater, streams, etc.? Maybe, just maybe, hey idiot?

Sand is not pollution. Water is not pollution. Alcohol is not pollution. Potassium chloride is not pollution. Citric acid is not pollution.

Define 'pollution'. Buzzword fallacy.

 

[AProudLefty]

I love me some fallacies.

 

[Into the Night]

There you go again, confusing the little orange turd with facts.

No facts. No argument presented.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, but as I demonstrated by the source you obviously didn't read these investments were in alternative energy. If renewable energy wasn't the way of the future and we have unlimited hydrocarbon resources forever as you're stupidly claiming, why would the oil and gas companies even bother?

We have unlimited hydrocarbon resources. Oil and natural gas are renewable fuels.

 

[AProudLefty]

Who are you trying to argue with?

 

[Into the Night]

And they were right as far as the fracking itself is concerned. However, that is not the complete process:

https://cfpub.epa.gov/ncea/hfstudy/recordisplay.cfm?deid=332990

EPA found scientific evidence that hydraulic fracturing activities can impact drinking water resources under some circumstances. The report identifies certain conditions under which impacts from hydraulic fracturing activities can be more frequent or severe:

Water withdrawals for hydraulic fracturing in times or areas of low water availability, particularly in areas with limited or declining groundwater resources;
Spills during the handling of hydraulic fracturing fluids and chemicals or produced water that result in large volumes or high concentrations of chemicals reaching groundwater resources;
Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into wells with inadequate mechanical integrity, allowing gases or liquids to move to groundwater resources;
Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids directly into groundwater resources;
Discharge of inadequately treated hydraulic fracturing wastewater to surface water; and
Disposal or storage of hydraulic fracturing wastewater in unlined pits resulting in contamination of groundwater resources.

Data gaps and uncertainties limited EPA’s ability to fully assess the potential impacts on drinking water resources locally and nationally. Because of these data gaps and uncertainties, it was not possible to fully characterize the severity of impacts, nor was it possible to calculate or estimate the national frequency of impacts on drinking water resources from activities in the hydraulic fracturing water cycle.

Spilling water and sand does not harm the environment. Hydraulic fractioning fluids are water and sand. Injecting them into groundwater is injecting water into the ground water. Big deal.

 

[Into the Night]

That isn't a groundwater well. It is aquifer recharge. You have a well in reverse. You pump treated wastewater back into the aquifer to restore groundwater volume. This is one way to offset pumping out ground water.

Nope. This is a groundwater well. That diagram does not show an aquifer at all.

 

[Into the Night]

Pretty much. The biggest problem with fracking right now is that the waste water isn't being adequately stored and handled. The industry needs to get a better grasp on that or on reuse of water.

It's water. What's wrong with it?

 

[Into the Night]

True. Carbon in it's usual form is "lampblack." A solid in very fine form and man does it get on everything. But it's definitely not a gas.

Lampblack is a very small carbon powder, sometime also called 'float carbon'. Yes...it gets on EVERYTHING very easily! Carbon powder in general is pretty messy to work with, even large lumps. As a diamond, of course, it doesn't have this problem, but it can cause abrasions.
Graphite, such as is used in pencils and common disposable batteries, can be pretty messy to work with too, if it's a powder.

But lampblack is the WORST for getting everywhere!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Lampblack is a very small carbon powder, sometime also called 'float carbon'. Yes...it gets on EVERYTHING very easily! Carbon powder in general is pretty messy to work with, even large lumps. As a diamond, of course, it doesn't have this problem, but it can cause abrasions.
Graphite, such as is used in pencils and common disposable batteries, can be pretty messy to work with too, if it's a powder.

But lampblack is the WORST for getting everywhere!

Try machining isostatically pressed graphite some time. That is the most horrible thing ever! One of my jobs long ago included design / build high temperature furnaces. Some used graphite heating elements (those would go to about 2200 C).

The elements usually looked something like that. On mine, I made sure to round off all the edges to eliminate stress points that might crack the element.

 

[Into the Night]

Try machining isostatically pressed graphite some time. That is the most horrible thing ever! One of my jobs long ago included design / build high temperature furnaces. Some used graphite heating elements (those would go to about 2200 C).

The elements usually looked something like that. On mine, I made sure to round off all the edges to eliminate stress points that might crack the element.

Heh. Bet THAT made a nice mess!

 

[Trump's Brain]

We have unlimited hydrocarbon resources. Oil and natural gas are renewable fuels.

Cool! Now all we need is a renewable ozone layer, coral reefs, glaciers and we're sittin' pretty!

 

[dukkha]

My friend, neither you or I know what alternative sources of energy are being worked on in oil company secret labs - <-- Did you see that? You bet you that oil and gas companies are looking for alternatives as well! They see resources harder and more costly to find - they're not as stupid as most science-denying trumpublicans!

ya. space aliens in energy labs is what I hear

 

[Cinnabar]

the Green New Deal is insane.
Trump correctly pointed out our Nat Gas has made the USA the largest reduction of carbon.

Biden wants us back in the Paris Accord -and can do it by XO

Wow! Imagine passing legislation and actually enacting policies that the majority of Americans want. What a strange idea.

Most Americans want more wind and solar. Biden wants to transition away from the oil industry. So do a growing number of Americans.

But polling shows that a majority of American’s agree with Biden’s vision that the future of American energy should be renewable energy.

Energy polling from Gallup shows a growing number of Americans believe the US should put less emphasis on traditional fossil fuels like oil and coal. The same Gallup poll showed overwhelming enthusiasm for renewable energy sources like wind and solar.

https://www.vox.com/2020/10/23/21530299/trump-biden-debate-oil-wind-solar

 

[dukkha]

Wow! Imagine passing legislation and actually enacting policies that the majority of Americans want. What a strange idea.

polls are meaningless when it comes to energy,,
who doesn't "want more emphasis on renewables?" it's a simplistic question.

If they asked "would you be willing to pay much higher energy prices to eliminate fossil fuels" -
i guarantee you the majority is no.

Polls should not drive policy -that's mob rule. renewables have their place and can capture larger market shares with improvements but they are incapable of supplying the BTUs needed to drive our economy

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I just scrolled through both of those. As I expected, Politifact fudged it both ways. They made Obama look better and Trump worse. For example, the first on on Trump is Dramatically scale back the EPA They rate this a partially kept when Trump made major rollbacks to the agency in staff, functions, and regulations. Their measure is The EPA is still here. That isn't rolling it back, that's eliminating it. Politifact moved the goal posts to make it worse for Trump.

There is just far too many on there to begin to parse through all of them.

A you claiming it's a vast, wide LW conspiracy, Chief?

Are you claiming Trump is just as honest, if not more so, than Obama?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

A you claiming it's a vast, wide LW conspiracy, Chief?

Are you claiming Trump is just as honest, if not more so, than Obama?

No, I'm claiming that Politifact is badly biased and when using them as a source you have to recognize that bias and account for it. As for Obama v. Trump... My yard stick is Obama told the American people repeatedly and for months "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan, you can keep your plan..." Those were two of the biggest, bald-faced, lies told to the public in decades by a President, if not ever.

Benghazi was another whopper of a lie and cover up.

I don't know who's told more half-truths, lies, etc., Obama or Trump but when it comes to the size of what those were Obama wins that contest hands down. He told massive, straight-out, lies repeatedly during his term and was never called on it by the press.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Most Americans want more wind and solar. Biden wants to transition away from the oil industry. So do a growing number of Americans.

But polling shows that a majority of American’s agree with Biden’s vision that the future of American energy should be renewable energy.

Energy polling from Gallup shows a growing number of Americans believe the US should put less emphasis on traditional fossil fuels like oil and coal. The same Gallup poll showed overwhelming enthusiasm for renewable energy sources like wind and solar.

https://www.vox.com/2020/10/23/21530...oil-wind-solar

So? The vast majority of Americans don't have a good understanding of things technical and complex. Most couldn't even tell you how the electric system in their home works. The MSM and Progressives have pushed the narrative that wind and solar will work are "free" energy. They won't and aren't free. At the same time, they've pushed the narrative that nuclear and oil are nothing short of evil. You tell a big enough lie long enough and people start to believe it.

The above Appeal to Popularity doesn't change any of that. If we do what the Progressive Left wants and transition to wind and sola, "renewables" we are headed for an economic train wreck that will take a century or more to fix.

Wind and solar cannot, and will not, meet our energy needs. Not today, not in fifty years. They are dead ends that are costly, inefficient, and worse for the environment than oil and far, far worse than nuclear.

 

[BartenderElite]

So? The vast majority of Americans don't have a good understanding of things technical and complex. Most couldn't even tell you how the electric system in their home works. The MSM and Progressives have pushed the narrative that wind and solar will work are "free" energy. They won't and aren't free. At the same time, they've pushed the narrative that nuclear and oil are nothing short of evil. You tell a big enough lie long enough and people start to believe it.

The above Appeal to Popularity doesn't change any of that. If we do what the Progressive Left wants and transition to wind and sola, "renewables" we are headed for an economic train wreck that will take a century or more to fix.

Wind and solar cannot, and will not, meet our energy needs. Not today, not in fifty years. They are dead ends that are costly, inefficient, and worse for the environment than oil and far, far worse than nuclear.

They can't meet our energy needs today. But in 50 years? Very possible.