Venezuela: A left wing Socialist disaster and warning to America

The Socialist party wasn't killed because other parties adopted its policies. The other parties didn't start doing anything resembling that until around the thirties, and the Sociailst party was well on its way to death by 1920. I think the biggest things that contributed to the death of the Socialist party was its opposition to WWI and the fact that most of the active membership quit and joined the politically poisoned Communists when Lenin founded the Comintern around 1919.

THE SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM of 1912
http://www.sagehistory.net/progressive/SocialistPlat1912.htm

The adoption of a graduated income tax and the extension of inheritance taxes, graduated in proportion to the value of the estate and to nearness of kin-the proceeds of these taxes to be employed in the socialization of industry.

The conservation of human resources, particularly of the lives and well-being of the workers and their families:
By shortening the work day in keeping with the increased productiveness of machinery.
By securing for every worker a rest period of not less than a day and a half in each week.
By securing a more effective inspection of workshops, factories and mines.
By the forbidding the employment of children under sixteen years of age.
By the co-operative organization of the industries in the federal penitentiaries for the benefit of the convicts and their dependents.
By forbidding the interstate transportation of the products of child labor, of convict labor and of all uninspected factories and mines.
By abolishing the profit system in government work and substituting either the direct hire of labor or the awarding of contracts to co-operative groups of workers.
By establishing minimum wage scales.
By abolishing official charity and substituting a non-contributary system of old age pensions, a general system of insurance by the State of all its members against unemployment and invalidism and a system of compulsory insurance by employers of their workers, without cost to the latter, against industrial diseases, accidents and death.
 
One of the key points that I attack Liberals on is that their social welfare policies INCREASE crime.
Can anyone look at the massive increase in Venezuela that has occured under Socialist Chavez and say that there is no link?
When you have the state disrespect private property and dole out welfare, people get a mindset that things are supposed to be given to them and not earned. Moreover it conditions people to think that it's ok to steal and rob because not only is the government doing it but they are justifying and glorifying it.

"Inflation in 2008 was 31%—the highest in Latin America.
Food prices in Caracas rose by almost 50%.
With almost 15,000 murders in 2008—an increase of two-and-a-half times since Mr Chávez took office—Venezuela has become one of the world’s most violent countries. "

Look at how economic freedom suppression has brought about civil liberties suppression too:
"Violence and intimidation of opponents by the security forces and by armed civilian groups (some openly linked to the government) have increased. Students campaigning against the constitutional change have faced harassment and arrest."
http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13061800

Now of course Liberalism in the US is not that extreme, but there is no question it is headed in the same direction, at least in Venezuela with a more rapid expansion of leftist policies you can more easily see the affects.

:cof1:

I'm serious .. you guys crack me up.

Here you are living in one of the most violent countries on the planet where we murder more than 30,000 people every year, and a country that is teetering on total financial collapse .. EVEN THOUGH we have FAR more resources than Venezula .. yet, instead of looking in the mirror at our monuimental failures, you rather look out the window for problems.

Amazing.

Here's a secret .. unbeknowst to most Americans who couldn't find Venezuela on a map .. since Chavez has led Venezuela and instituted socialist policies, the quality of life for Venezuelans has improved EXPONENTIALLY.

Amazing .. and guess what .. more socialist policies are heading to the US .. that is more than we already have ..

:cof1:
 
If anyone wants to make a case for a "creep" of socialism based on redistribution of wealth, I'd be interested to see any trend in the past 2 decades where the gap between rich & poor did not widen....

In terms of dollars or percentages?

If you have two people making $50k and $1mm respectively.... Person making $50k increases by 10% year-over-year.... now makes $55k. If the person making $1mm gets an increase of 0.51% or greater the dollar gap will widen.
 
When the government can tell companies what 'trips' and 'means of transportation they may take', they own them. I'm not saying it's wrong, just saying the government owns them. It's socialism. Those businesses, which the Obama administration in less than a month has claimed and seems determined to make significant, are owned.

It is not socialism to put requirements on a loan.
 
As the board socialist, I must tell you threads like these are hilarious.

They go best with a joint .. but I'm still working, so I savor the comedy later.

The absolute beauty of socialism is that I don't have to sell it to anybody. I don't have to convince one single person about the wisdom of socialism because society comes to it, not the other way around.

Let's see the hands of those who want to get rid of Social Security or Medicaid?

Let's see the hands of those who don't think nationalized healthcare isn't coming to America .. where nearly 70% of the population support it?

Aww .. better save some of this happiness for later at doobie time.

:)
 
:cof1:

I'm serious .. you guys crack me up.

Here you are living in one of the most violent countries on the planet where we murder more than 30,000 people every year, and a country that is teetering on total financial collapse .. EVEN THOUGH we have FAR more resources than Venezula .. yet, instead of looking in the mirror at our monuimental failures, you rather look out the window for problems.

Amazing.

Here's a secret .. unbeknowst to most Americans who couldn't find Venezuela on a map .. since Chavez has led Venezuela and instituted socialist policies, the quality of life for Venezuelans has improved EXPONENTIALLY.

Amazing .. and guess what .. more socialist policies are heading to the US .. that is more than we already have ..

:cof1:

really....all venezuelans?
 
I don't support social security anymore. It's a farcical program made tolerable with rhetoric only.

Good for you .. then don't take it when you're eligible ..

But that doesn't have shit to do with the fact that we've just fucking bailed out our failing banks and financial institutions with taxpayer money, with no direct benefit to the taxpayer.

What the fuck is that called?

Socialism for the rich and a weak-ass version of capitialism for the average American ..where if you fail you're shit out of luck.

Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that.

You guys are funny. :)
 
Good for you .. then don't take it when you're eligible ..
Oh i'm going to take it alright. It's my damned money I paid in to it, however, I'm not going to rely on it to let me live comfortably, like so many senior citizens were gulled in to believing that it would. It's why my grandmother is broke right now. If it wasn't for one of her sons living there, she would have lost her home by now.

But that doesn't have shit to do with the fact that we've just fucking bailed out our failing banks and financial institutions with taxpayer money, with no direct benefit to the taxpayer.

What the fuck is that called?

Socialism for the rich and a weak-ass version of capitialism for the average American ..where if you fail you're shit out of luck.

Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that.

You guys are funny. :)
you're preaching to the choir here, dude. I'm telling you, you just need to come out of the libertarian closet and get it over with. Join us evil folks and be happy.
 
really....all venezuelans?

The Venzuelan people are EXPONENTIALLY better off today than they were before Chavez .. a fact that is hardly in dispute and a fact that is always mysteriously missing from so-called "analysis" of Venzuela .. as it is missing from any serious anaylsis of Cuba.

Not sure how you want to qualify "all" .. but however you qualify it, are "all" Americans living wonderfully?
 
The Venzuelan people are EXPONENTIALLY better off today than they were before Chavez .. a fact that is hardly in dispute and a fact that is always mysteriously missing from so-called "analysis" of Venzuela
about 2.5 years ago, i'd agree wholeheartedly with you on this. The problem NOW is that chavez doesn't want to stop with just 'socialism'. His inevitable desire for more power to direct what HE sees as best for people will ultimately lead to communism. This is the problem with socialists. They don't realize that their ideology is awesome for short term gain and should stay that way. They need to take it to the next level, which will fail disastrously.
 
Oh i'm going to take it alright. It's my damned money I paid in to it, however, I'm not going to rely on it to let me live comfortably, like so many senior citizens were gulled in to believing that it would. It's why my grandmother is broke right now. If it wasn't for one of her sons living there, she would have lost her home by now.

you're preaching to the choir here, dude. I'm telling you, you just need to come out of the libertarian closet and get it over with. Join us evil folks and be happy.

:)

My bad brother.

I'd forgotten you were libertarian.

A thousand pardons ...
 
:cof1:

I'm serious .. you guys crack me up.

Here you are living in one of the most violent countries on the planet where we murder more than 30,000 people every year, and a country that is teetering on total financial collapse .. EVEN THOUGH we have FAR more resources than Venezula .. yet, instead of looking in the mirror at our monuimental failures, you rather look out the window for problems.

Amazing.

Here's a secret .. unbeknowst to most Americans who couldn't find Venezuela on a map .. since Chavez has led Venezuela and instituted socialist policies, the quality of life for Venezuelans has improved EXPONENTIALLY.

Amazing .. and guess what .. more socialist policies are heading to the US .. that is more than we already have ..

:cof1:

Hyperbole ought to be your middle name. There are currently 23 countries more violent than US according staistical information In 2007 there were 16,929 murders in the US not 30,000.

The sneering attitude against how well schooled Americans are in their geographic knowledge is likewise duly noted as just more of your unfounded hyperbole. As the self proclaimed board socialist I can agree that you're properly schooled in dumbed down arrogance and propaganda to qualify...must be those doobies :)

It is also highly disengenuous to claim that Venezuelans are better off under Chavez.
 
As the board socialist, I must tell you threads like these are hilarious.

They go best with a joint .. but I'm still working, so I savor the comedy later.

The absolute beauty of socialism is that I don't have to sell it to anybody. I don't have to convince one single person about the wisdom of socialism because society comes to it, not the other way around.

Let's see the hands of those who want to get rid of Social Security or Medicaid?

Let's see the hands of those who don't think nationalized healthcare isn't coming to America .. where nearly 70% of the population support it?

Aww .. better save some of this happiness for later at doobie time.

:)

LOL. You have to read Dixie's post when you're stoned, it's just fabulous.
 
The Venzuelan people are EXPONENTIALLY better off today than they were before Chavez .. a fact that is hardly in dispute and a fact that is always mysteriously missing from so-called "analysis" of Venzuela .. as it is missing from any serious anaylsis of Cuba.

Not sure how you want to qualify "all" .. but however you qualify it, are "all" Americans living wonderfully?

of course not and neither are all venzuelans, surely you realize that there are those who do not support the socialist regime there

i asked because you comment did not say most or some...
 
Hyperbole ought to be your middle name. There are currently 23 countries more violent than US according staistical information In 2007 there were 16,929 murders in the US not 30,000.

The sneering attitude against how well schooled Americans are in their geographic knowledge is likewise duly noted as just more of your unfounded hyperbole. As the self proclaimed board socialist I can agree that you're properly schooled in dumbed down arrogance and propaganda to qualify...must be those doobies :)

It is also highly disengenuous to claim that Venezuelans are better off under Chavez.

The former army paratroop commander used booming oil profits to nationalize companies and bankroll social programs that have boosted his popularity. The programs include benefits for single mothers, literacy classes and free medical clinics staffed by Cuban doctors. Chavez even built cable cars that soar up into Caracas' hillside slums.

Critics call it cheap handout populism, but by any account it has been wildly successful. Canache said he is convinced of Chavez's good intentions because some of his relatives received public housing, and because of a free university he hopes one day his 5-year-old daughter will attend.

"I hope Chavez is still there in the government," he said. "I think he will be."

Soaring oil prices over the last few years fed not only government spending but also a consumer boom. People are eating more beef, drinking more whisky, shopping at new malls and clogging streets with new cars.

Government statistics show improvements in quality of life: Unemployment is down, school enrollment is up and poverty declined from nearly 44 percent of households in 1998 to about 30 percent today.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/07/ap/world/main4782628.shtml

Are there still many problems in venezuela .. absolutely .. just as there are many problems here. But in regards to Venezuela before Chavez and after, I am correct .. they are much better off.

The upcoming elections will tell what Venzuelans think .. it should be noted that Chavez has only lost one election .. on the referendum .. and before you go there, Venezuelan elections have more integrity than American elections.

I'll get back to you on the murder rates after I complete this backup.
 
Doobie time? You in MN BAC? We should hang....

I lived in Minneapolis for a year doing DBA work for a telecom company there .. until my wife demanded that we move.

Never found a good source for the precious .. so I agreed and we left.

If you're ever near Atlanta ...
 
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