Biden to eliminate oil and gas by 2035

Into the Night said:
Why get rid of the grid? People already produce their own power.

Nope. Modern plants are more reliable and safer.

Wrong on both. A new plant was just built in Tennessee and came online in 2016. Two plants are under construction right now in the United States.

Random number. Argument from randU fallacy. Nuclear plants can be costly, and have risks that people don't like to accept (true, they are illiterate, but that does not change things). You don't get to dictate energy markets. You are not the king.

Irrelevant. If people want to buy that form of energy, they are free to do so. You don't get to dictate energy markets.

It is quite sustainable. People are buying solar and wind energy plants.

An executive order can be nullified by another executive order. Not a problem.

No, it was Jimmy Carter dictats that are deciding. He exceeded his authority. He didn't have authority to meddle with energy markets.

Nope. We have electric cars. They have a range similar to gasoline cars on a single charge.

Already have 'em. Lithium oxide batteries, lithium metal batteries, common zinc, nicad, and even some lead-acid cells use solid electrolytes. Lithium metal and lithium oxide batteries use a paper layer soaked with electrolyte.

Sorry dude. Ohm's law gets in your way. You need to charge the battery of an electric car with the same joules to move the same distance. This is just mechanics. You can't change that. You can't put that many joules into a battery in a short space of time. The wire required would be so thick you could never lift it. There are no contacts capable of handling that kind of current.

If you increase the voltage to reduce the current requirements, you are dealing with several thousand volts. Not a user friendly connection.

Batteries themselves are also a resistor. They only accept a charge so fast. This is known as the internal resistance of the battery. It limits how fast you can charge and discharge it. Currently, the battery with the lowest internal resistance is the lead-acid battery. There is no way to charge even this battery with enough power for an electric car. This battery is also heavy. It is lead, after all.

Lithium batteries have a high internal resistance. Their big advantage is that they are made of light materials. This is ideal for portable electronic devices like cell phones. They are popular in electric cars too in order to save weight, reducing the energy required to move the vehicle.

Not likely. Gasoline has the highest BTU per given volume of any fuel. This makes it a good fuel for small tanks. Diesel oil and kerosene has the highest BTU per given weight. This makes it a good fuel for large aircraft, ships, and trucks.

It takes too long to refuel (recharge) an electric car. That cannot change, even if the car is equipped with lead-acid cells.

Wait...didn't you just say you want to get rid of the electrical grid??

We DO have a well designed electrical grid. A far cry from the days where the grid was susceptible to such blackouts like what hit most of the east coast of the United States due to a single flashover fault. Today's electrical grids are much more resilient, and are necessary for getting power from a power plant to the user. This does not include the SOTC, however, since they do not maintain their electrical grid properly.

Nope. A fossil is an image of an animal or plant in stone. Fossils don't burn.

Nope. Natural gas can be found in swamps, landfills, compost piles, underground, or manufactured by man. It is not associated with any rock formation.

Nope. It's a gas. There is no image of a plant or animal possible.

If you call it a fossil fuel, you are saying it is a fossil.

We still use steam locomotives. I used to drive one myself when I last worked on a railroad. That machine is still in service. Nice little locomotive. It used diesel fuel to fire the boiler. I know several railroads that still use coal fired steam locomotives. We use steam in power plants still too. Nuclear power plants use steam to power the generators. So do oil and coal fired power plants. There are even steamships still plying the waters here and there, including nuclear powered ships.

Oil products are very useful. It's a renewable fuel too. So is natural gas.

It is also used as a fuel in running power plants. It is also used in industry as a fuel. Still pretty cheap. It is not only used for smelting iron and other metals, it is also used to make steel.
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I'm well versed in energy and I stand by my positions.
 
Nordberg said:
They don't. You are ignoring the costs of pollution and health costs dirty fuels create.
Click to expand...

Then let's take one of the supposed "green" leaders in this nonsense, Germany. Germany has done the following with their energiewende program:

They have invested heavily in solar and wind where solar now constitutes about 6 to 7% of their total output yearly, and wind is about 12 to 13%. This has cost about $100 billion in new construction to achieve, and will require about $20 billion per year to maintain. Farmers have taken advantage of incentives and rates of pay per KW to "farm" solar making them millionaires even as customers get screwed with the higher per KWH cost in any developed nation.

They got rid of nuclear shutting down the 6 plants they had. This led to a severe shortage of power so Germany invested in 25 new "clean" coal power plants to replace the nukes. These burn lignite for the most part, the dirtiest coal around...

They have put about $800 billion into subsidizing solar and wind operations on top of the capital investments in it. This has enriched a small segment of the German population while making electricity so expensive it's a luxury good.

They are phasing out natural gas across the country. This has led to the use of pellet stoves to heat homes. This in turn, has led to a deforestation of the nation to provide the necessary wood to make the pellets. That in turn has greatly increased VOC emissions from pellet manufacturing plants in operation. This had gotten so bad that the Germans moved their operations to other nations like the Baltic states, and even to Texas where they have a huge plant turning out pellets that is a perpetual EPA pollution violator for both CO2 and VOC emissions.

They've spend another roughly $750 billion on a smart grid that when finished will have cost in excess of $1 trillion dollars.

Because the German grid is unstable now, often producing erratic amounts of electricity, the Poles, Czechs, and French have largely disconnected their grids from the German one to prevent dumping of excess electricity on them causing their grids to become unstable.

Instability has also caused many German manufacturers and commercial enterprises that need stable electrical power to install back up generators (usually diesel) and UPS power supplies costing them millions in installation costs that would be unnecessary except for Germany's unstable grid.

The promised 230,000 "green" jobs this was supposed to create failed to materialize, but the biggest increase in new jobs related to all of this are in law and bureaucracy needed to manage all the subsidies and small suppliers like ex-farmers making solar.

Germany's net CO2 production is now on the rise and above where it was in 2009 with no possibility of it dropping due to all of the above. Of course, they're also shipping some of their pollution overseas and out of the country like the aforementioned wood pellet factory in Texas...

I'm not ignoring much. You are delusional. Green is a massive failure.

I could go into how wind is decimating bat populations worldwide, or how solar molten salt plants like Ivanpah in California not only have high CO2 pollution (they use natural gas to heat the molten salt before the sun comes up because if they didn't the plant would run just a few hours a day) and how it required buying an additional 4,000 acres of land to move endangered desert tortoises off the site at a cost of tens of millions of dollars. Then the plant continues to cook birds that fly into it. Or, how it disrupts local and regional weather patterns as it is a massive urban heat island equivalent. It's sister Crescent Dunes went bankrupt before going online as it was cheaper to do that than open the plant knowing what a failure Ivanpah is.

Even rooftop solar is a problem. It too creates urban heat island effects. Disposal of the worn out panels in the next decade or so is going to be another new crisis. What do you do with thousands of tons of toxic waste you can't just dump in a landfill and has no recycle value?

electricity-price-2406.jpg


total-solar-power-by-country-leaders-per-capita.png


Notice how wind and solar use tracks with higher KWH costs...?

Solar and wind are losers.
 
Arks&sparka said:
I'm well versed in energy and I stand by my positions.
Click to expand...

You obviously are not. You can't even tell the difference between a rock and a barrel of oil. You have no idea what a battery is or how it works. You deny chemistry. You deny engineering. You deny mathematics. You deny science.
 
Into the Night said:
You obviously are not. You can't even tell the difference between a rock and a barrel of oil. You have no idea what a battery is or how it works. You deny chemistry. You deny engineering. You deny mathematics. You deny science.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry into the night I forgot you're in the world's leading expert on everything.

Nobody that disagrees with you could possibly know anything because you know everything.
 
Nordberg said:
Sti
Stick your "now" up your ass. I am not your secretary. I would have given it to a dense person like you, but blow me. With your shitty attitude can look it up yourself..
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Translation: I cannot back up any of my democrat lies and bullshit. Fuck you Nordberg. You cock sucking little welfare collecting faggot. Democrat of course.
 
Sailor said:
Translation: I cannot back up any of my democrat lies and bullshit. Fuck you Nordberg. You cock sucking little welfare collecting faggot. Democrat of course.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Quit being an asshole. I can back it up . Sorry, you are way too stupid to possess any information and facts that challenge you small-minded right wing crap. Anyone with a scintilla of an open mind would have more info than a right wing goon. It is easy to look up. They are called externalities.
 
Arks&sparka said:
I'm well versed in energy and I stand by my positions.
Click to expand...
Obviously not sufficiently well versed in energy to defend your positions, only enough to state them. Is that because the people who are telling you what your positions are don't provide you enough information to understand the positions you are to hold?
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Then let's take one of the supposed "green" leaders in this nonsense, Germany. Germany has done the following with their energiewende program:

They have invested heavily in solar and wind where solar now constitutes about 6 to 7% of their total output yearly, and wind is about 12 to 13%. This has cost about $100 billion in new construction to achieve, and will require about $20 billion per year to maintain. Farmers have taken advantage of incentives and rates of pay per KW to "farm" solar making them millionaires even as customers get screwed with the higher per KWH cost in any developed nation.

They got rid of nuclear shutting down the 6 plants they had. This led to a severe shortage of power so Germany invested in 25 new "clean" coal power plants to replace the nukes. These burn lignite for the most part, the dirtiest coal around...

They have put about $800 billion into subsidizing solar and wind operations on top of the capital investments in it. This has enriched a small segment of the German population while making electricity so expensive it's a luxury good.

They are phasing out natural gas across the country. This has led to the use of pellet stoves to heat homes. This in turn, has led to a deforestation of the nation to provide the necessary wood to make the pellets. That in turn has greatly increased VOC emissions from pellet manufacturing plants in operation. This had gotten so bad that the Germans moved their operations to other nations like the Baltic states, and even to Texas where they have a huge plant turning out pellets that is a perpetual EPA pollution violator for both CO2 and VOC emissions.

They've spend another roughly $750 billion on a smart grid that when finished will have cost in excess of $1 trillion dollars.

Because the German grid is unstable now, often producing erratic amounts of electricity, the Poles, Czechs, and French have largely disconnected their grids from the German one to prevent dumping of excess electricity on them causing their grids to become unstable.

Instability has also caused many German manufacturers and commercial enterprises that need stable electrical power to install back up generators (usually diesel) and UPS power supplies costing them millions in installation costs that would be unnecessary except for Germany's unstable grid.

The promised 230,000 "green" jobs this was supposed to create failed to materialize, but the biggest increase in new jobs related to all of this are in law and bureaucracy needed to manage all the subsidies and small suppliers like ex-farmers making solar.

Germany's net CO2 production is now on the rise and above where it was in 2009 with no possibility of it dropping due to all of the above. Of course, they're also shipping some of their pollution overseas and out of the country like the aforementioned wood pellet factory in Texas...

I'm not ignoring much. You are delusional. Green is a massive failure.

I could go into how wind is decimating bat populations worldwide, or how solar molten salt plants like Ivanpah in California not only have high CO2 pollution (they use natural gas to heat the molten salt before the sun comes up because if they didn't the plant would run just a few hours a day) and how it required buying an additional 4,000 acres of land to move endangered desert tortoises off the site at a cost of tens of millions of dollars. Then the plant continues to cook birds that fly into it. Or, how it disrupts local and regional weather patterns as it is a massive urban heat island equivalent. It's sister Crescent Dunes went bankrupt before going online as it was cheaper to do that than open the plant knowing what a failure Ivanpah is.

Even rooftop solar is a problem. It too creates urban heat island effects. Disposal of the worn out panels in the next decade or so is going to be another new crisis. What do you do with thousands of tons of toxic waste you can't just dump in a landfill and has no recycle value?

Notice how wind and solar use tracks with higher KWH costs...?

Solar and wind are losers.
Click to expand...

Sadly Nordberg is one of those lefties that is not impressed with facts, figures and empirical evidence. He has his feels to keep him warm and snug at night. Even Michael Moore figured what a gigantic scam renewables are, it's little more than a gigantic Ponzi scheme enriching a few like George Soros, Tom Steyer and Al Gordo.

Is Ivanpah still operating I thought it went down the crapper like Crescent Dunes? It's never run at anywhere near its nameplate capacity since it opened. It is extremely efficient at toasting birds though, maybe KFC should buy it for their fried chicken?
 
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Nordberg said:
Wrong. Quit being an asshole. I can back it up . Sorry, you are way too stupid to possess any information and facts that challenge you small-minded right wing crap. Anyone with a scintilla of an open mind would have more info than a right wing goon. It is easy to look up. They are called externalities.
Click to expand...

So what is taking you so fucking long Nordberg? Post it. Put up or shut up you fucking little whining faggot.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Then let's take one of the supposed "green" leaders in this nonsense, Germany. Germany has done the following with their energiewende program:

They have invested heavily in solar and wind where solar now constitutes about 6 to 7% of their total output yearly, and wind is about 12 to 13%. This has cost about $100 billion in new construction to achieve, and will require about $20 billion per year to maintain. Farmers have taken advantage of incentives and rates of pay per KW to "farm" solar making them millionaires even as customers get screwed with the higher per KWH cost in any developed nation.

They got rid of nuclear shutting down the 6 plants they had. This led to a severe shortage of power so Germany invested in 25 new "clean" coal power plants to replace the nukes. These burn lignite for the most part, the dirtiest coal around...

They have put about $800 billion into subsidizing solar and wind operations on top of the capital investments in it. This has enriched a small segment of the German population while making electricity so expensive it's a luxury good.

They are phasing out natural gas across the country. This has led to the use of pellet stoves to heat homes. This in turn, has led to a deforestation of the nation to provide the necessary wood to make the pellets. That in turn has greatly increased VOC emissions from pellet manufacturing plants in operation. This had gotten so bad that the Germans moved their operations to other nations like the Baltic states, and even to Texas where they have a huge plant turning out pellets that is a perpetual EPA pollution violator for both CO2 and VOC emissions.

They've spend another roughly $750 billion on a smart grid that when finished will have cost in excess of $1 trillion dollars.

Because the German grid is unstable now, often producing erratic amounts of electricity, the Poles, Czechs, and French have largely disconnected their grids from the German one to prevent dumping of excess electricity on them causing their grids to become unstable.

Instability has also caused many German manufacturers and commercial enterprises that need stable electrical power to install back up generators (usually diesel) and UPS power supplies costing them millions in installation costs that would be unnecessary except for Germany's unstable grid.

The promised 230,000 "green" jobs this was supposed to create failed to materialize, but the biggest increase in new jobs related to all of this are in law and bureaucracy needed to manage all the subsidies and small suppliers like ex-farmers making solar.

Germany's net CO2 production is now on the rise and above where it was in 2009 with no possibility of it dropping due to all of the above. Of course, they're also shipping some of their pollution overseas and out of the country like the aforementioned wood pellet factory in Texas...

I'm not ignoring much. You are delusional. Green is a massive failure.

I could go into how wind is decimating bat populations worldwide, or how solar molten salt plants like Ivanpah in California not only have high CO2 pollution (they use natural gas to heat the molten salt before the sun comes up because if they didn't the plant would run just a few hours a day) and how it required buying an additional 4,000 acres of land to move endangered desert tortoises off the site at a cost of tens of millions of dollars. Then the plant continues to cook birds that fly into it. Or, how it disrupts local and regional weather patterns as it is a massive urban heat island equivalent. It's sister Crescent Dunes went bankrupt before going online as it was cheaper to do that than open the plant knowing what a failure Ivanpah is.

Even rooftop solar is a problem. It too creates urban heat island effects. Disposal of the worn out panels in the next decade or so is going to be another new crisis. What do you do with thousands of tons of toxic waste you can't just dump in a landfill and has no recycle value?

Notice how wind and solar use tracks with higher KWH costs...?

Solar and wind are losers.
Click to expand...
Great Buddha! save us all from SloJo/AOC
 
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