Can the country be unified?

[evince]

An obvious lie since you obviously do care what I think and post.

You even asked me for help:

And instead of proving your commitment to FACTS you spew at me personally

Shit bag Russo bot hole

 

[Diesel]

I've had the same experience regarding being told I should just leave. IMO the highest form of patriotism is looking at your country with open eyes and an open mind, seeing the things that need fixing, and working together to address those things.

When I graduated from h.s., if you were college-bound, you were required to take two years of a foreign language in h.s. Even today some universities require their BS majors to take at least one. My son-in-law graduated from the University of Vermont last year with a bachelors in mathematics. He had to take one, so he choose French. Yet my husband, who graduated from the University of Illinois with a BS in engineering, in the 1970s, did not. He knows at least a dozen computer languages, has created two, but has no desire at all to learn another human tongue. I guess it's hard for me to understand this because I have loved foreign languages since I was a little kid. I even made up my own dictionary using words borrowed from around the world, including Native American words. I've had three years of German, one each of Russian and Spanish, and two years of Anishinaabemowin (Ojibwe). Yet I am but the grasshopper. :~)

Why on Earth do you think that many RWers believe that our universities and public schools are hotbeds of liberalism? If they were, wouldn't they be encouraging learning other languages, other cultures, and teaching the students to think of themselves as citizens of the world rather than just one nation?

That's really cool. Linguistics is fascinating. Is that word under your user name Anishinaabemowin? I don't know anything about Ojibwe.

I think conservatives have two main reasons for hating universities: 1.) They didn't go and think people more educated than they are are elitist. I think it's a form of jealousy. 2.) People tend to become more liberal with the more education they receive. That's not a hard rule obviously, but it is an observable trend. It's better for their political causes if people stay dumb.

 

[evince]

Listen, asshole. I already gave you lots of examples. Quit being such a whiny little bitch about an uncontestable fact. You sound like a Trump supporter.

View attachment 18128

In purple, red, and blue are the three congressional districts of metropolitan Denver. Step off my dick.

Now show the court cases that present the case of gerrymandering

There are none huh


Just baseless claims on the internet from you

 

[Dutch Uncle]

And instead of proving your commitment to FACTS you spew at me personally

Shit bag Russo bot hole

See? You do care!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I've had the same experience regarding being told I should just leave. IMO the highest form of patriotism is looking at your country with open eyes and an open mind, seeing the things that need fixing, and working together to address those things.

When I graduated from h.s., if you were college-bound, you were required to take two years of a foreign language in h.s. Even today some universities require their BS majors to take at least one. My son-in-law graduated from the University of Vermont last year with a bachelors in mathematics. He had to take one, so he choose French. Yet my husband, who graduated from the University of Illinois with a BS in engineering, in the 1970s, did not. He knows at least a dozen computer languages, has created two, but has no desire at all to learn another human tongue. I guess it's hard for me to understand this because I have loved foreign languages since I was a little kid. I even made up my own dictionary using words borrowed from around the world, including Native American words. I've had three years of German, one each of Russian and Spanish, and two years of Anishinaabemowin (Ojibwe). Yet I am but the grasshopper. :~)

Why on Earth do you think that many RWers believe that our universities and public schools are hotbeds of liberalism? If they were, wouldn't they be encouraging learning other languages, other cultures, and teaching the students to think of themselves as citizens of the world rather than just one nation?

"Becuz dem Dam DemoRats teach all of that edjumakation kommie shit!" Or something like that.


Here's a question Katzgar can't answer: Why are military officers more liberal than enlisted personnel?

 

[evince]

I care about what is factually true


It’s called reality


When one embraces facts and reality one can build great things


When one embraces lies they are doomed to fail


Bad information in means bad decisions out


An undeniable fact

 

[Diesel]

You are lying about my party




Why?

Ugh. It's people like you who keep me from identifying as a Democrat. Your leaders are corrupt too. Everyone loves their own congressperson, but everyone hates Congress. Pelosi and the DNC are not as evil as McConnell and the RNC are, but they also control who runs for office, who wins elections, who receives campaign funding, who receives committee assignments, etc. This is not a case of very fine people on both sides. The Republicans sold their souls and their party to Trump and for that, I will probably never vote for another Republican for federal office for the rest of my life. You pretending that the Democrats are as pure as the driven snow, however, is bullshit. It's delusional. It causes me to think that you are as mindless about the Democratic party as Trump supporters are about the Republican party.

 

[evince]

The right hates education because it’s hard to fool people who know things


They are fucking CONMEN

CONS

 

[evince]

Ugh. It's people like you who keep me from identifying as a Democrat. Your leaders are corrupt too. Everyone loves their own congressperson, but everyone hates Congress. Pelosi and the DNC are not as evil as McConnell and the RNC are, but they also control who runs for office, who wins elections, who receives campaign funding, who receives committee assignments, etc. This is not a case of very fine people on both sides. The Republicans sold their souls and their party to Trump and for that, I will probably never vote for another Republican for federal office for the rest of my life. You pretending that the Democrats are as pure as the driven snow, however, is bullshit. It's delusional. It causes me to think that you are as mindless about the Democratic party as Trump supporters are about the Republican party.

I keep asking you for facts to back your claims


Why can’t you present some claimed facts in ONE fucking case of this gerrymandering by the Democratic Party that you claim exists


Those maps DO NOT SHOW what you claim exists



You hate me because I’m outing your inability to provide any facts to your claim


And


That I have provided FACTS that destroy your claims



Get right with the facts

 

[Diesel]

And instead of proving your commitment to FACTS you spew at me personally

Shit bag Russo bot hole

I think we have to draw lines in some places. For example, Trump supporters are dead to me; and I will never forgive them for supporting Trump. Lots of people say that makes me intolerant. To some extent, it does, but I have to take the right stands at the right times; and that is a judgment I have made. You, however, have flown off the rails AT A LIBERAL (and another person who identifies as liberal) because I made the undeniable statement that Democrats and Republicans both gerrymander. You called both of us Russian bots. So you tell me which one of us is less tolerant than the other.

 

[evince]

And there diesel goes

Cementing the idea that Americans can never heal


Embraces lies I proved were lies


Refuses cold hard facts and refuses to offer PROOF of his crap

 

[Diesel]

Now show the court cases that present the case of gerrymandering

There are none huh


Just baseless claims on the internet from you

Are you insane or high? Gerrymandering isn't illegal unless it's done racially. That's the problem. Whichever party controls redistricting can do whatever the hell it wants and the other party has no recourse. It's one of many, many flaws in the American political system. Some states have formed nonpartisan redistricting commissions, but "nonpartisan" is hardly a thing when we're talking about human behavior and decisions.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

That's really cool. Linguistics is fascinating. Is that word under your user name Anishinaabemowin? I don't know anything about Ojibwe.

Yes, it means ThatOwlWoman. Language and culture are inseparably intertwined. To learn one is to learn the other

I think conservatives have two main reasons for hating universities: 1.) They didn't go and think people more educated than they are are elitist. I think it's a form of jealousy. 2.) People tend to become more liberal with the more education they receive. That's not a hard rule obviously, but it is an observable trend. It's better for their political causes if people stay dumb.

Both of these statements have truth. I also think that ppl who tend to live in the same area where they grew up tend to be more conservative as well. Those who move away (like Mr. Owl did because there were no jobs in computer science or engineering in the middle of rural Illinois where he was raised) and live in more urban areas tend to also become less conservative and close-minded. Exposure to diversity works that way. His family remain for the most part in rural Illinois, and all of them are Trump cultists. He does have a sister who moved to Louisiana for her husband's job. But they live in a rural area and are ardent Trumperoos too, and send their kid to an all-white fundie Xtian school. Ironically her husband lost his job as a museum director a year ago and claims to have found nothing since. He refuses to consider any position in a larger city or a "blue state."

 

[evince]

The international forces who hate America and seek its failure pretend to be Americans on the internets


That was PROVEN by the FBI folks


They also pretend to be liberals to gain influence over liberals to sway them from reality and facts



PROVEN BY THE FBI folks


Just because a poster here talks the talk doesn’t make them real

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

"Becuz dem Dam DemoRats teach all of that edjumakation kommie shit!" Or something like that.


Here's a question Katzgar can't answer: Why are military officers more liberal than enlisted personnel?

I believe it's because most (or is it all now?) have degrees. That is certainly true of my son, who enlisted in the Navy and was sent to officer's school because he came with a BS in engineering. He served on a boomer as a lieutenant.

 

[Diesel]

And there diesel goes

Cementing the idea that Americans can never heal


Embraces lies I proved were lies


Refuses cold hard facts and refuses to offer PROOF of his crap

You know what, evince? Go fuck yourself. I'm done with your game. Don't talk to me about healing when you call me a liar a hundred times and a Russian bot for saying (to someone who isn't even you) that Democrats gerrymander. You're a dishonest partisan. You're a Republican with a different team jersey.

 

[evince]

Are you insane or high? Gerrymandering isn't illegal unless it's done racially. That's the problem. Whichever party controls redistricting can do whatever the hell it wants and the other party has no recourse. It's one of many, many flaws in the American political system. Some states have formed nonpartisan redistricting commissions, but "nonpartisan" is hardly a thing when we're talking about human behavior and decisions.

Oh really


Bullshit


Gerrymandering to quash voter intentions is illegal


Prove it’s not

 

[evince]

You know what, evince? Go fuck yourself. I'm done with your game. Don't talk to me about healing when you call me a liar a hundred times and a Russian bot for saying (to someone who isn't even you) that Democrats gerrymander. You're a dishonest partisan. You're a Republican with a different team jersey.

If you don’t want to be called a liar then don’t lie


You have completely failed to offer proof of your claims repeatedly



I offered facts to prove you wrong


You have entirely dismiss those facts

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I believe it's because most (or is it all now?) have degrees. That is certainly true of my son, who enlisted in the Navy and was sent to officer's school because he came with a BS in engineering. He served on a boomer as a lieutenant.

That's my guess: higher education. The piece of paper is only documentation for job-hunting, but the education itself is mind-opening. However, that education doesn't always translate into voting Democrat as the links below note. Like with Bill Clinton, the officer corps had a significantly lower view of Trump than enlisted personnel.

2012
https://swampland.time.com/2012/11/05/does-the-military-vote-really-lean-republican/
The officers by and large are more conservative,” says an Army sergeant just back from Afghanistan. “But the enlisted tend to be more liberal.” Of course, with fewer than one in five of those in uniform an officer, there’s a lot more enlisted voters.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ng-political-tension-in-the-ranks-poll-shows/
Troops surveyed had a 44 percent favorable view of Trump against a 43 percent unfavorable view. Women, minorities and officers had significantly lower opinions of his tenure, and men and enlisted service members offered more support.


https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ding-among-active-duty-troops-new-poll-shows/
“The general rule of thumb with the military is that it moves along with public opinion but lags conservative,” said Peter Feaver, a former adviser to former President George W. Bush who is now a political science professor at Duke University and an author of several books on military culture...

...As has been the case in the past, the poll shows that officers are less enamored with Trump than enlisted troops. More than half have an unfavorable view of his presidency, against 41 percent who have a favorable view.

Still, that’s an improvement for Trump, who saw only a 31 percent favorable rating from officers in the poll one year ago...

 

[Diesel]

Oh really


Bullshit


Gerrymandering to quash voter intentions is illegal


Prove it’s not

Good luck with that. Exactly one gerrymandered district has ever been overturned by a court.

"In the 20th century and afterwards, federal courts have deemed extreme cases of gerrymandering to be unconstitutional but have struggled with how to define the types of gerrymandering and the standards that should be used to determine which redistricting maps are unconstitutional. The US Supreme Court has affirmed in Miller v. Johnson (1995) that racial gerrymandering is a violation of constitutional rights and upheld decisions against redistricting that is purposely devised based on race. However, the Supreme Court has struggled as to when partisan gerrymandering occurs (Vieth v. Jubelirer (2004) and Gill v. Whitford (2018)) and a landmark decision, Rucho v. Common Cause (2019), ultimately decided that questions of partisan gerrymandering represent a nonjusticiable political question, which cannot be dealt with by the federal court system. That decision leaves it to states and to Congress to develop remedies to challenge and to prevent partisan gerrymandering. . . .

"The Supreme Court had ruled in Davis v. Bandemer (1986) that partisan gerrymandering violates the Equal Protection Clause and is a justiciable matter. However, in its decision, the Court could not agree on the appropriate constitutional standard against which legal claims of partisan gerrymandering should be evaluated. Writing for a plurality of the Court, Justice White said that partisan gerrymandering occurred when a redistricting plan was enacted with both the intent and the effect of discriminating against an identifiable political group. Justices Powell and Stevens said that partisan gerrymandering should be identified based on multiple factors, such as electoral district shape and adherence to local government boundaries. Justices O'Connor, Burger, and Rehnquist disagreed with the view that partisan gerrymandering claims were justiciable and would have held that such claims should not be recognized by courts.[23]:777–779 Lower courts found it difficult to apply Bandemer, and only in one subsequent case, Party of North Carolina v. Martin (1992),[24] did a lower court strike down a redistricting plan on partisan gerrymandering grounds.[23]:783

"The Supreme Court revisited the concept of partisan gerrymandering claims in Vieth v. Jubelirer (2004).[25] While the Court upheld that partisan gerrymandering could be justiciable, the justices were divided in this specific case as no clear standard against which to evaluate partisan gerrymandering claims emerged. Writing for a plurality, Justice Scalia said that partisan gerrymandering claims were nonjusticiable. A majority of the court would continue to allow partisan gerrymandering claims to be considered justiciable, but those justices had divergent views on how such claims should be evaluated.[26] Justice Anthony Kennedy, in a concurrence with the plurality, offered that a manageable means to determine when partisan gerrymandering occurred could be developed, and challenged lower courts to find such means.[23]:819–821 The Court again upheld that partisan gerrymandering could be justiciable in League of United Latin American Citizens v. Perry (2006). While the specific case reached no conclusion of whether there was partisan gerrymandering, Justice John Paul Stevens's concurrence with the plurality added the notion of partisan symmetry, in that the electoral system should translate votes to representative seats with the same efficiency regardless of party.[27]"

From the Wikipedia page that you linked.