We have to split up!

[Dutch Uncle]

What the fuck does DU consider a socialist nation if not a nation with components of socialism?

Have someone teach you how to click on a link, old man. It's all there.

What do you consider to be a socialist nation over any other form of political and economic system? Do you have a factual link or do you just pull the definition out of your ass daily to see what it looks like?

 

[LV426]

IYour leaps of logic are interesting. Is it because you are more emotional than logical?

All I'm doing is quoting your logic back to you.

You said socialism isn't viable, then said countries that adopt socialist programs are, but adopting those same programs here is extremist.

So it really just seems like you're setting yourself up to oppose anything as you shift the goalposts.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I've often said that without unlimited resources, a federal Constitutional republic fueled by regulated capitalism and having a socialist safety net for the sick, elderly and children is the best the world can hope to have.

Your leaps of logic are interesting. Is it because you are more emotional than logical?

A more comprehensive public sector and a more regulated private sector is the goal of my party.
If my party fails, our constitutional republic will be perish because the balance we have now will clearly not sustain it.
Anarchy will be the replacement, and we're well on our way there.

My party will fail as long as regressive elements are over represented in our government, and our founders wrote a very imperfect constitution
that guarantees regressive elements are over represented.

Blueexit is the only answer that might be able to avoid all out civil war.
There's no perfection in this world, but trying to remain as we are is a pretty close to perfect recipe for dystopia.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

All I'm doing is quoting your logic back to you.

You said socialism isn't viable, then said countries that adopt socialist programs are, but adopting those same programs here is extremist.

So it really just seems like you're setting yourself up to oppose anything as you shift the goalposts.

When you can figure out the incongruities in that bolded sentence, please let me know.

I've already stated what I support and why multiple times. Not just on this thread either. It's bullshit that you claim otherwise.

Here, you even quoted me before you went wackie again.

I've often said that without unlimited resources, a federal Constitutional republic fueled by regulated capitalism and having a socialist safety net for the sick, elderly and children is the best the world can hope to have.

Your leaps of logic are interesting. Is it because you are more emotional than logical?

OK, but you said socialism wasn't viable, then went on to say countries that have socialist policies are viable, but adopting those same socialist policies here is extremist.

It just doesn't seem like you've really given this much thought.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

A more comprehensive public sector and a more regulated private sector is the goal of my party.
If my party fails, our constitutional republic will be perish because the balance we have now will clearly not sustain it.
Anarchy will be the replacement, and we're well on our way there.

My party will fail as long as regressive elements are over represented in our government, and our founders wrote a very imperfect constitution
that guarantees regressive elements are over represented.

Blueexit is the only answer that might be able to avoid all out civil war.
There's no perfection in this world, but trying to remain as we are is a pretty close to perfect recipe for dystopia.

Saying a "more comprehensive public sector and a more regulated private sector" covers a lot of territory. Please show me the particulars since I don't trust the Democratic Party enough to take out the trash without them rifling through it for information then dumping it in the neighbor's yard.

First, there will be no civil war during my life time but some weenies considered the Sixties a "civil war". It wasn't and we're no where close to the dissent of the Sixties. Too many people have too much to lose if the nation's government collapses or half the country is trying to destroy the other half.

You are old enough to know that only idiots risk everything they have on fighting a "civil war" in today's environment.

Second, blow Blexit and Brexit are lameass attempts for a do-over. Even Trump did it better with his Capitol Riot coup attempt to kill everyone inside the Capitol.

 

[LV426]

I've often said that without unlimited resources, a federal Constitutional republic fueled by regulated capitalism and having a socialist safety net for the sick, elderly and children is the best the world can hope to have.

Why is that the best the world can hope to have when it's not what the most viable countries currently have?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Saying a "more comprehensive public sector and a more regulated private sector" covers a lot of territory. Please show me the particulars since I don't trust the Democratic Party enough to take out the trash without them rifling through it for information then dumping it in the neighbor's yard.

First, there will be no civil war during my life time but some weenies considered the Sixties a "civil war". It wasn't and we're no where close to the dissent of the Sixties. Too many people have too much to lose if the nation's government collapses or half the country is trying to destroy the other half.

You are old enough to know that only idiots risk everything they have on fighting a "civil war" in today's environment.

Second, blow Blexit and Brexit are lameass attempts for a do-over. Even Trump did it better with his Capitol Riot coup attempt to kill everyone inside the Capitol.

We vehemently disagree, obviously, but optimism for 50-state America is a Pollyanna pipedream; it's well onto to the road to dystopia.
You're a little laid back. You may not be equipped to understand the power of hatred.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Why is that the best the world can hope to have when it's not what the most viable countries currently have?

We're limited by technological abilities to sustain a global population of almost 8 Billion people and a national population of 331 million people. Katrina and the recent weather event in Texas are microcosms of what happens when technology breaks down.

The people suffering the most are in the higher density population areas AKA cities and their suburbs. Refineries are limited and so highly regulated no new ones are being built. They just patch up the old ones. Power systems are often far removed from cities.

Sure, windmills are great but who wants to live under one? The link between a city and its power source is as dependent as the link between your brain and your heart. Cut it and people are harmed. Just the overall technical side. No brag, just facts, ma'm

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We vehemently disagree, obviously, but optimism for 50-state America is a Pollyanna pipedream; it's well onto to the road to dystopia.
You're a little laid back. You may not be equipped to understand the power of hatred.

If you're as old as you claim, then you are honestly telling me the nation is in so much more distress than in the 1960s that you believe it will collapse into a second civil war? NFW

Understand hatred. It usually self-destructs, one way or another. Sometimes it has to shot down in the street like a rabid dog; with both dispassion and efficiency. Very few people hate enough to kill. When you have half the nation ready to kill each other, then you'll have a civil war.

You and your "civil war" assholes are too pussified to do much other than commit mass murder and end up disgracing yourself like those idiots on January 6th.

 

[LV426]

We're limited by technological abilities to sustain a global population of almost 8 Billion people and a national population of 331 million people. Katrina and the recent weather event in Texas are microcosms of what happens when technology breaks down.

From what I've read, it would cost as much as $265B a year to keep the globe's population fed. Considering the top 1% in the US have increased their wealth from $1.5T in 2009 to $3T today, that seems the most logical place to start looking for solutions.

Katrina and Texas didn't collapse because of technology breaking down, they collapsed because of leadership breaking down. Both New Orleans and Texas had been issued warnings after warnings that their infrastructure was inadequate and would fail. If memory serves, the Army Corps of Engineers even told the state of Louisiana that their levees would not survive a hurricane the scale of Katrina literally a year before Katrina hit. Texas got hit with a storm in 2011 that knocked out power and Texas ignored and dismissed all the warnings and recommendations after it...ten years later, we got that shitshow...which was wholly and completely avoidable had the leaders in Texas given a single shit about the state, or taken any of the warnings and recommendations seriously. Hmm...that sounds very familiar to a certain coronavirus that first appeared in 2019...leadership didn't take the threat or warning seriously and the result was the shitshow.

So I don't agree that we are limited by technology. We clearly aren't. What's being limited is access to that technology, and that's a leadership problem.

 

[LV426]

The people suffering the most are in the higher density population areas AKA cities and their suburbs. Refineries are limited and so highly regulated no new ones are being built. They just patch up the old ones. Power systems are often far removed from cities.

You're talking about Texas, yes? But really, this could apply to almost any disaster.

Power systems far removed from cities is solved very easily by putting solar panels and wind turbines on every building and home. Manufacture those solar panels here using US-sourced materials, mandate that those panels must be on every government building, and VIOLA! you have completely addressed the issues of power systems and their proximity to people, while also creating thousands if not millions of jobs, businesses, and distributors.

Sure, windmills are great but who wants to live under one? The link between a city and its power source is as dependent as the link between your brain and your heart. Cut it and people are harmed. Just the overall technical side. No brag, just facts, ma'm

I'd happily live under a windmill. I think they're cool looking. I'd happily put solar panels all over my roof and yard if it means I can generate my own power and not rely on fossil fuels. More importantly, I'd pay someone to do it...which creates a job.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

From what I've read, it would cost as much as $265B a year to keep the globe's population fed. Considering the top 1% in the US have increased their wealth from $1.5T in 2009 to $3T today, that seems the most logical place to start looking for solutions.

Katrina and Texas didn't collapse because of technology breaking down, they collapsed because of leadership breaking down. Both New Orleans and Texas had been issued warnings after warnings that their infrastructure was inadequate and would fail. If memory serves, the Army Corps of Engineers even told the state of Louisiana that their levees would not survive a hurricane the scale of Katrina literally a year before Katrina hit. Texas got hit with a storm in 2011 that knocked out power and Texas ignored and dismissed all the warnings and recommendations after it...ten years later, we got that shitshow...which was wholly and completely avoidable had the leaders in Texas given a single shit about the state, or taken any of the warnings and recommendations seriously. Hmm...that sounds very familiar to a certain coronavirus that first appeared in 2019...leadership didn't take the threat or warning seriously and the result was the shitshow.

So I don't agree that we are limited by technology. We clearly aren't. What's being limited is access to that technology, and that's a leadership problem.

You just moved the goalposts from the viability of socialism to the taxing of the 1%. Yes, we also need tax reform in the US.

The fact you don't understand the flooding of New Orleans wasn't due to leadership. The stupidest thing GW did, besides invade Iraq, was to promise to rebuild NOLA instead of help moved the people to higher ground. He was embarrassed about the slow federal response to the catastrophe. That said, it wasn't Bush who built an entire fucking city below sea level next to a Hurricane-prone sea.

The failures of leadership were in the days before it hit through the recovery afterward. The majority of them in Louisiana.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You're talking about Texas, yes? But really, this could apply to almost any disaster.

Power systems far removed from cities is solved very easily by putting solar panels and wind turbines on every building and home. Manufacture those solar panels here using US-sourced materials, mandate that those panels must be on every government building, and VIOLA! you have completely addressed the issues of power systems and their proximity to people, while also creating thousands if not millions of jobs, businesses, and distributors.

I'd happily live under a windmill. I think they're cool looking. I'd happily put solar panels all over my roof and yard if it means I can generate my own power and not rely on fossil fuels. More importantly, I'd pay someone to do it...which creates a job.

Do you really expect to be able to power all of New York City with the current level of tech in little wind turbines and solar panels?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Very few people hate enough to kill. When you have half the nation ready to kill each other, then you'll have a civil war.


You and your "civil war" assholes are too pussified to do much other than commit mass murder and end up disgracing yourself like those idiots on January 6th.

What do you know bout killing, creampuff?
I was coerced by our lovely nation to kill people with whom we as a nation had no legitimate grievance.
I have to live with that, you steaming pile of pigshit.
I know how little it takes to initiate killing.
Do you, motherfucker?

I overestimated your reading comprehension skill, numbnuts.
Blueexit is the alternate solution to civil war.
It's to prevent civil war and resolve our otherwise unsolvable problem without violence.
And you are calling ME a pussy, sweetie?

You shouldn't have used your own photo as an avatar.
I can see you.
I've quite literally run over much more than you to get to a real fight.
I can even do that now at 74.
I've sparred with world ranked contenders in Rip Valenti's famous Boston gym, you fucking dustmite.

I've tried to stay civil with you, and your one and only achievement is to talk me out of it.
Fuck you, you internet brave sissy.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

What do you know bout killing, creampuff?
I was coerced by our lovely nation to kill people with whom we as a nation had no legitimate grievance.
I have to live with that, you steaming pile of pigshit.
I know how little it takes to initiate killing.
Do you, motherfucker?

I overestimated your reading comprehension skill, numbnuts.
Blueexit is the alternate solution to civil war.
It's to prevent civil war and resolve our otherwise unsolvable problem without violence.
And you are calling ME a pussy, sweetie?

You shouldn't have used your own photo as an avatar.
I can see you.
I've quite literally run over much more than you to get to a real fight.
I can even do that now at 74.
I've sparred with world ranked contenders in Rip Valenti's famous Boston gym, you fucking dustmite.

I've tried to stay civil with you, and your one and only achievement is to talk me out of it.
Fuck you, you internet brave sissy.

Fine, old man. Live in your bitterness waiting for the day. You'll die waiting for something that'll never come in your lifetime.

Think of it as a Pascal's Wager for national uprisings. The conditions aren't right, but you are obviously too far gone in your belief that 'we are is a pretty close to perfect recipe for dystopia" or "well onto to the road to dystopia".

Out of curiosity, what is your experience with dystopian societies? Have you been to the USSR or PRC? Any other socialist societies on the brink of implosion?

 

[LV426]

Do you really expect to be able to power all of New York City with the current level of tech in little wind turbines and solar panels?

Current level? No. That's why it needs to be expanded. Even at current level, fossil fuels can't power the whole country.

 

[LV426]

You just moved the goalposts from the viability of socialism to the taxing of the 1%.

Of course socialism is viable, it's viable in almost every other First World country.

Then you chimed in with a but of irrelevance by proclaiming that those countries aren't socialist, and then you tried to say that they also weren't viable, yet were viable because of their socialist policies.

You're all over the place.

You need to better organize your thoughts.

 

[LV426]

he fact you don't understand the flooding of New Orleans wasn't due to leadership. The stupidest thing GW did, besides invade Iraq, was to promise to rebuild NOLA instead of help moved the people to higher ground. He was embarrassed about the slow federal response to the catastrophe. That said, it wasn't Bush who built an entire fucking city below sea level next to a Hurricane-prone sea.

OF COURSE it was due to leadership! The ACoE had told the state of Louisiana for years leading to Katrina that they're unprepared and that a disaster is looming. Same thing in Texas. They were also warned. Same thing nationally about COVID. We were warned there too. 9/11? Bush was warned about that.

In all cases, Conservative/Republican leadership failed to prevent the disaster when they could have.

There wouldn't have been a 9/11 had Bush listened to the recommendations for counter-terrorism.

There wouldn't have been a slow federal response to Katrina had Louisiana listened to the recommendations for their levy system.

There wouldn't have been a shitshow in Texas had Texas listened to the recommendations for their power grid.

There wouldn't have been a pandemic had Ttrump and the GQP listened to the recommendations for COVID.

Are you sensing a pattern here? Because I am. These are just the GQP/Conservative fuckups of the last 20 years.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Current level? No. That's why it needs to be expanded. Even at current level, fossil fuels can't power the whole country.

No shit. That's my point, dear. We can't with the current level of technology. Gee, where did you and I see that before?

Of course socialism is viable, it's viable in almost every other First World country.

Then you chimed in with a but of irrelevance by proclaiming that those countries aren't socialist, and then you tried to say that they also weren't viable, yet were viable because of their socialist policies.

You're all over the place.

You need to better organize your thoughts.

Try reading the post again.

I said "No socialist country is economically viable" because all have failed completely or forced to implement capitalist economic policies: the USSR, the PRC, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.

Capitalism fuels socialist policies. What fuels a socialist country like the USSR and pre-capitalist China? Taxes? LOL

 

[Dutch Uncle]

OF COURSE it was due to leadership! The ACoE had told the state of Louisiana for years leading to Katrina that they're unprepared and that a disaster is looming. Same thing in Texas. They were also warned. Same thing nationally about COVID. We were warned there too. 9/11? Bush was warned about that.

In all cases, Conservative/Republican leadership failed to prevent the disaster when they could have.

There wouldn't have been a 9/11 had Bush listened to the recommendations for counter-terrorism.

There wouldn't have been a slow federal response to Katrina had Louisiana listened to the recommendations for their levy system.

There wouldn't have been a shitshow in Texas had Texas listened to the recommendations for their power grid.

There wouldn't have been a pandemic had Ttrump and the GQP listened to the recommendations for COVID.

Are you sensing a pattern here? Because I am. These are just the GQP/Conservative fuckups of the last 20 years.

Nice rant, but wrong again. Louisiana Governor Blanco was a Democrat. NOLA Mayor Ray Nagin was a Democrat....who just got out of prison four years early due to COVID.

That's one Democrat who's happy Trump fucked up the COVID response. Thanks Trump!

https://apnews.com/article/c805d7b18aa615d975f388786c50fed5

The former New Orleans mayor who led the city amid Hurricane Katrina’s devastation and was later convicted in a corruption case was released from prison early due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Ray Nagin, 63, got out of federal prison Monday, news outlets reported. Nagin was home with family in the Dallas area, his brother-in-law Cedric Smith said late Monday.

Nagin was sentenced to 10 years in prison in 2014 on multiple counts including wire fraud, money laundering, bribery and more. The charges relate to crimes that happened before and after Hurricane Katrina struck in 2005. He was mayor from 2002 until 2010.