NASA: direct proof of man caused GW

Hello evince,

Because they watch Fox News


The truth never gets to their ears


The ones here are fake people

Some are valid.

The ones who talk in riddles and never directly address any of your actual comments are more likely to be bots.
 
Hello Cypress,



Tragically so.

One has to wonder why deniers apparently do not care in the least about their own descendants.

I believe these type of Deniers are hoping scientists, engineers, technology can just mitigate the problem away without the Deniers ever having to openly confess to being wrong.
 
Hello Cypress,

I believe these type of Deniers are hoping scientists, engineers, technology can just mitigate the problem away without the Deniers ever having to openly confess to being wrong.

In many cases they will die before the worst effects of climate change are felt.

And the really tragic thing is that once these effects become pronounced, they are not going away.

Simply reducing emissions is not going to do that.

CO2 must be removed from the atmosphere to accomplish that.

Atmospheric CO2 levels have doubled.
 
My theory is that sentient Republicans are aware that humans are substantially responsible for the climate modifications we have seen this century, but they are emotionally invested in denial, having promoted the denial agenda for decades.

I actually believe some of them would rather have harm come to their grandchildren's welfare due to climate change, than admit they were wrong on an obscure message board to people they will never meet.

TBH, the Democrats, specifically Al Gore, politicized the issue first and, as usual, the Republicans freaked out and overreacted.
 
Floyd’s manner of death was homicide, not accident. Homicide is death at the hands of another. Accident is drug overdose.

Homicide.

Your opinion.

You're not an M.E and neither am I.

Please let's not get into a pissing match over this because you're not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you.

The way I see it, in trying to conceal evidence of drug possession, Floyd had ingested an amount of narcotics that, along with his heart condition and the stress of being arrested for passing counterfeit money, caused him to have a heart attack.

Feel free to have your own views on the subject, but please don't attempt to force them on me.

Thanks. :thup:
 
Your opinion.

You're not an M.E and neither am I.

Please let's not get into a pissing match over this because you're not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you.

The way I see it, in trying to conceal evidence of drug possession, Floyd had ingested an amount of narcotics that, along with his heart condition and the stress of being arrested for passing counterfeit money, caused him to have a heart attack.

Feel free to have your own views on the subject, but please don't attempt to force them on me.

Thanks. :thup:

Neither M.E. that conducted the autopsies said there was a drug overdose. They BOTH ruled homicide. Write them with your opinion. I’m sure they’ll consider it.
 
Neither M.E. that conducted the autopsies said there was a drug overdose. They BOTH ruled homicide. Write them with your opinion. I’m sure they’ll consider it.

One of the M.E.'s was hired by the Floyd family's attorney so I have zero faith in anything in that report.

From CBS News:

George Floyd, the Minnesota man who died after an officer arresting him pressed his knee onto his neck, died by homicide, according to the results of two autopsies released on Monday — one by the county medical examiner and the other by independent pathologists commissioned by Floyd's family. But the two autopsy reports differed on exactly how the man died.

Dr. Allecia Wilson, one of the pathologists who conducted the independent autopsy, said Monday afternoon that Floyd died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation.

But the report released later Monday by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office said Floyd died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression." The manner of death was ruled homicide, but the office noted that "is not a legal determination of culpability or intent." A preliminary autopsy report cited earlier by prosecutors said the county medical examiner's review "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-death-autopsies-homicide-axphyxiation-details/

I knew you wouldn't be able to let it go at agreeing to disagree. :palm:
 
From the OP link:

"It may come as a surprise, given the extensive body of evidence connecting humans to climate change, that directly-observed proof of the human impact on the climate had still eluded science. That is, until now.

In a first-of-its-kind study, NASA has calculated the individual driving forces of recent climate change through direct satellite observations. And consistent with what climate models have shown for decades, greenhouse gases and suspended pollution particles in the atmosphere, called aerosols, from the burning of fossil fuels are responsible for the lion's share of modern warming.

In other words, NASA has proven what is driving climate change through direct observations — a gold standard in scientific research."

There goes the argument used by so many deniers that AGW is not proven.

NASA just proved it.

And now, of course, the goal posts will be moved.

Those who have said they don't think we need to do anything about climate change 'because it might cost too much' will come up with new reasons to oppose human progress.

Anything to avoid admitting they were wrong.

Because, in their view, saving face is more important than saving the planet.

They think they are perfect. They 'don't make mistakes.'

Well, not only did they get climate change wrong, but they got their own human nature wrong.

Everybody makes mistakes. And one of the biggest mistakes is never admitting to making mistakes.

When people won't admit to mistakes they never learn from them.

As they fool themselves that they are perfect they cheat themselves out of the wisdom which can only be learned from making mistakes.

Those still denying AGW are also denying themselves intelligence.

Pride goes before the fall.

So don't do that.

Now is the perfect time to just say you were wrong.

Actually, you don't have to admit it to anyone but yourself.

But if you do come out and actually admit this to others you will get the most benefit of the lesson because you will remember it always and never forget it.

Humility is like that. It makes for good lessons.

No, it's not easy, not for snowflakes.

It takes a strong will to improve your character in this way.

But I can certainly say it is worth it.

Worked that way every time I did it.

I've made a lot of mistakes.

If you bury them you tend to forget it and believe whatever BS story your told yourself. You learn no lesson at all. Except perhaps a method to wriggle out of responsibility.

But if you own up to a mistake and make amends, that sticks with you. Makes you want to not repeat it because it's no fun.

This time, it has bigger implications. The future of the planet. The future of your children and grandchildren. And their children and grandchildren. Basically, the future of humanity.

Pretty heavy stuff.

Which is why now would be a really good time to admit this one mistake. No matter what your peer group says. Do you let others do your thinking for you? Or do you think for yourself.

AGW is real. Admit it. Act on it. Join us in saving the human race. Those who come hundreds of years from now will thank you. The same way you revere our nation's founders.

Now, isn't that a good feeling?
 
One of the M.E.'s was hired by the Floyd family's attorney so I have zero faith in anything in that report.

From CBS News:



I knew you wouldn't be able to let it go at agreeing to disagree. :palm:

Just as I said. It was ruled a homicide. Note the comment on law enforcement subdual and restraint, but the lack of anything about drug overdose.
 
Just as I said. It was ruled a homicide. Note the comment on law enforcement subdual and restraint, but the lack of anything about drug overdose.

Show me where I said anything about a drug "overdose".

Don't waste your effort because I never said that.

I said he died from ingesting drugs that caused him to have a heart attack.

It is known that he had a heart condition, probably brought about by years of drug abuse.

If someone has a bad heart, ingesting a fairly large quantity of drugs then finding themselves in a highly stressful situation, is very likely to cause what the M.E. described as the cause of death, "...cardiopulmonary arrest...".

The fact that it happened while a cop had his knee on his neck is as relevant in this case, as if the cop had had his arm twisted behind his back.

Why do I say that?

Because the county M.E. report "...revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

If there was no traumatic asphyxia or strangulation, then the knee on the neck and back did not kill him and hence, the cops' actions were not directly responsible.

Like I said above, they could have twisted his arm and the stress of that could have killed him.
 
Show me where I said anything about a drug "overdose".

Don't waste your effort because I never said that.

I said he died from ingesting drugs that caused him to have a heart attack.

It is known that he had a heart condition, probably brought about by years of drug abuse.

If someone has a bad heart, ingesting a fairly large quantity of drugs then finding themselves in a highly stressful situation, is very likely to cause what the M.E. described as the cause of death, "...cardiopulmonary arrest...".

The fact that it happened while a cop had his knee on his neck is as relevant in this case, as if the cop had had his arm twisted behind his back.

Why do I say that?

Because the county M.E. report "...revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

If there was no traumatic asphyxia or strangulation, then the knee on the neck and back did not kill him and hence, the cops' actions were not directly responsible.

Like I said above, they could have twisted his arm and the stress of that could have killed him.

If a drug ingestion causes a heart attack that kills someone, pal, that’s an overdose in anyone’s language.

I never said he was strangled or asphyxiated. Neither did the M.E. I merely told you the results from the M.E. And that is Floyd was killed by another person. That’s what homicide means. Not a suicide. Not an accidental death. Not a natural death.

I don’t know how many times that fact has to be repeated for it to sink in.

So, the question being who is that other person involved in that homicide? There is only one answer.

Now, homicide is only a manner of death, not a criminal charge. It’s up to the jury to decide any criminal responsibility.

As for the “could have” garbage, spare me that. “Could haves” never happen. Not in the history of mankind.

The fact is also that 12ng/ml of fentanyl, while it can be lethal, especially for “opioid naive” persons, for habitual opioid users, it’s not that high. People on therapeutic fentanyl patches to manage chronic pain can have much higher levels than that.
 
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Here's some real science for you, not that a Californicator like you would grok any of it!!

Not so innocent as it looks, a pertinent question is asked by Judith Curry on Twitter:

How much of a change in cloudiness would it take to account for the 0.53 W/m2 increase in TOA radiative forcing since 2003?


She asks it in relation with a recent article accepted for publication on Observational evidence of increasing global radiative forcing (Kramer et al., 2021).

Abstract. “Changes in atmospheric composition, such as increasing greenhouse gases, cause an initial radiative imbalance to the climate system, quantified as the instantaneous radiative forcing. This fundamental metric has not been directly observed globally and previous estimates have come from models. In part, this is because current space‐based instruments cannot distinguish the instantaneous radiative forcing from the climate’s radiative response. We apply radiative kernels to satellite observations to disentangle these components and find all‐sky instantaneous radiative forcing has increased 0.53±0.11 W/m2 from 2003 through 2018, accounting for positive trends in the total planetary radiative imbalance. This increase has been due to a combination of rising concentrations of well‐mixed greenhouse gases and recent reductions in aerosol emissions. These results highlight distinct fingerprints of anthropogenic activity in Earth’s changing energy budget, which we find observations can detect within 4 years.”

This question touches a central point of climate science because it cannot be an experimental science in which one can play with parameters in isolation from each other. Only a few limited ongoing instrumental observations and palaeolithic reconstructions may serve to try to distinguish natural from anthropogenic processes, in particular radiative forcing processes. However, most of this job, if not all of it, takes place in silico.

The question can also be formulated in a more general way:

Is it at all possible, at global scope and by instrumental observations, to distinguish the causes of radiative forcing difference of 0.53 W·m-2 over a time period of 15 years?

To the cloudiness suggestion:

From a simple, two-layer energy balance budget it can be estimated that, all other things remaining constant, a 1% increase in cloudiness (which amounts to approx. 66% overall) may induce a temperature increase of 0.54 °C at the Earth surface and of 0.45 °C at the top of atmosphere (TOA)
Without consideration for any system feedback, a radiative forcing of 0.53 Wm-2 would induce a temperature rise of 0.11 °C at the surface, and 0.18 °C at TOA.
To obtain a same temperature increase, thus to respond to a forcing of 0.53 Wm-‑2, it would take a change in cloudiness by 0.27 % for the surface, or by 0.4 % for the TOA.
Is cloudiness, or change of cloudiness, measurable with such accuracy and precision at the aggregated global scope? What was it in 2003, and in 2018?
From an overall energy balance perspective:

In general, and to simplify, modelers estimate all incoming and outgoing heat fluxes, and let any remaining quantity warm or cool the oceans, thus reporting a so-called accumulated ocean heat or “heat content anomaly”.
According to NASA, over the 1993–2019 period, a heat flux anomaly of 0.36 to 0.41 Wm-2 for the first 700 m of depth would have accumulated. Over time, other heat release periods should also occur so that the imbalance does not let us boil or freeze for ever (it never did).
Over this time period of 26 years, this heat flux would have implied a temperature change to a well homogenized 700-meter water column of 0.10 to 0.11 °C, a hard to measure change.
A question, similar to the previous one, arises regarding instrumental observation: is it at all possible to measure such heat accumulation precisely, accurately, and at the aggregated global scope (by localized temperature monitoring or any other valid method)?
In all these evaluations, errors will have to be taken into account; those arising from instrumental imprecisions and inaccuracies, those that are embedded in the data massaging process (averaging over time and locations), and systemic ones deriving from incomplete and imperfect model designs, their parametrization and simplifications.

Said differently: the resulting balance sheet of any model should entail an account for garbage; but it appears that it is at the same time the energy accumulating in oceans. The NASA-Goddard simplified representations does not show any; others (Trenberth, Fasullo, & Kiehl, 2009) show an “net absorbed” of 0.9 W·m-2 or the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP) indicates a “Surface imbalance” of 0,6 ±0.17 W·m-2 (one appreciates the margin precision). However, taking into account all potential errors, the true range of validity of this imbalance may well be of the order of hundreds of percent, thus challenging the narrative of a ticking time bomb accumulated in the ocean depths.

One final question must be addressed to the climate science community: will the heat accumulated in the oceans ever be realized by the surface climate?

References

Kramer, R. J., He, H., Soden, B. J., Oreopoulos, L., Myhre, G., Forster, P. M., & Smith, C. J. (2021). Observational evidence of increasing global radiative forcing. Geophysical Research Letters, 48(e2020GL091585). https://doi.org/10.1029/2020GL091585

Trenberth, K. E., Fasullo, J. T., & Kiehl, J. (2009). Earth’s global energy budget.
Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 90(3), 311–323. https://doi.org/10.1175/2008BAMS2634.1

About the author:

Michel de Rougemont, chemical engineer, Dr sc tech, is an independent consultant. www.mr-int.ch
In his activities in fine chemicals and agriculture, he is confronted, without fearing them, to various environmental and safety challenges.
He published a book ‘Réarmer la raison‘, on sale at Amazon, and an essay ‘Entre hystérie et négligence climatique‘ (both in French only).
He maintains a blog blog.mr-int.ch,, a site dedicated to the climate climate.mr-int.ch, as well as one on biological control in agriculture biologicals.mr-int.ch
E-mail: michel.de.rougemont@mr-int.ch
He has no conflict of interest in relation with the subject of this paper.

https://judithcurry.com/2021/03/28/a-pertinent-climate-question/

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If a drug ingestion causes a heart attack that kills someone, pal, that’s an overdose in anyone’s language.

I never said he was strangled or asphyxiated. Neither did the M.E. I merely told you the results from the M.E. And that is Floyd was killed by another person. That’s what homicide means. Not a suicide. Not an accidental death. Not a natural death.

I don’t know how many times that fact has to be repeated for it to sink in.

So, the question being who is that other person involved in that homicide? There is only one answer.

Now, homicide is only a manner of death, not a criminal charge. It’s up to the jury to decide any criminal responsibility.

As for the “could have” garbage, spare me that. “Could haves” never happen. Not in the history of mankind.

The fact is also that 12ng/ml of fentanyl, while it can be lethal, especially for “opioid naive” persons, for habitual opioid users, it’s not that high. People on therapeutic fentanyl patches to manage chronic pain can have much higher levels than that.

He had a bad heart, idiot.

Any dose of fentanyl could have killed him.

Plus, he had methamphetamine in his system too.

Double whammy.

Ergo, that does not equal overdose.... "pal".

And the homicide has not been proven.

It is merely the opinion of the medical examiner.

The ME is an appointed position and as such, subject to political pressure.

I can easily see a scenario in which the higher powers in the county applied their influence on the ME to call it a homicide just to avoid the public appearance of sweeping it under the rug, in an attempt to avoid even worse civil unrest.

I offered you the chance to just agree to disagree, but I guess you are such an insecure little person you cannot stand being disagreed with, so you've decided to needlessly drag out this little pissing match.

Bottom line: IDGAF what your opinion is and you're not going to change mine, so why don't you at least attempt to give the false impression that you've got enough class to go on your way and accept the fact that you cannot control how others see the world.
 
If we don't fix this and right away, we are looking at a massive immigration problem on our Southern Border, the likes of which would dwarf anything seen so far.

When sustenance farming becomes impossible in Central America, look out.

You think immigration is a problem now, you ain't seen nothing.

And what a tremendous challenge.

People who want to make America greater? This is our challenge.

America would do the world a great service by leading the way into a green future.

We have to change, and we have to get the rest of the world to change as well.

No more BS.

The debate is over.

The only debate now is not whether or not we are doing this. It's how great a job we are going to do of it.

Screw great again. We need to be greater than we have ever been.

No pressure...
 
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