Is an egg a chicken?

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
More like than what it is now, but Earth hasn't always been like Earth today.

https://www.sutori.com/story/timeline-of-the-earth-s-atmosphere--vT3Gywb1t82XUbryrKhq5itC
Timeline of the Earth's Atmosphere

E- Approximately 3.5 – 4 b.y.a. the Earth began to cool down and water vapor condensed into liquid water. Liquid water began to collect on the earth’s surface in lakes and oceans. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere decreased. The atmosphere was about 70% carbon dioxide gas and 30% nitrogen gas.
Click to expand...

And then there was the great oxidation event, possibly caused by stromatolites, a life form which existed on CO2, but emitted oxygen as a byproduct. They once covered the planet. But after the atmosphere became mostly oxygen, the stromatolites mostly died out. It was the first case of when the activities of a life form on Earth actually changed the atmosphere and the climate, which had a negative effect on them.

We currently exist in a time of a similar event. AGW.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Cypress,



What an excellent, excellent point.

Imagine the scene. A fertility clinic is on fire. An hysterical woman is outside screaming: "There are people in there!" A fireman gears up, rushes in, searches the whole place, finds no one, comes back out and explains to the woman that he didn't see anybody. The fire is progressing rapidly and getting ever more dangerous. Then she says: "They are too small to see! All those petri dishes contain fertilized human egg cells! They are PEOPLE! PLEASE SAVE THEM!!!" The fireman turns and looks at the building again, now with flames coming out of nearly all the windows and doors. He thinks if there was a baby in there he would go in, but this is different. There is no baby in there.

If he refuses, is he shirking his duty?
Click to expand...

Actions speak louder than words.

Anyone can holler till the cows come home that a human life begins at conception. That is easy to do.

But since no-one in their right mind would attempt to rescue a petri dish of blastocysts, we all recognize that there is uncertainty about when a human life begins, and that fertilized eggs do not rise to the threshold of personhood.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Cypress,



What an excellent, excellent point.

Imagine the scene. A fertility clinic is on fire. An hysterical woman is outside screaming: "There are people in there!" A fireman gears up, rushes in, searches the whole place, finds no one, comes back out and explains to the woman that he didn't see anybody. The fire is progressing rapidly and getting ever more dangerous. Then she says: "They are too small to see! All those petri dishes contain fertilized human egg cells! They are PEOPLE! PLEASE SAVE THEM!!!" The fireman turns and looks at the building again, now with flames coming out of nearly all the windows and doors. He thinks if there was a baby in there he would go in, but this is different. There is no baby in there.

If he refuses, is he shirking his duty?
Click to expand...

I want to know why you people keep burning down fertility clinics........isn't aborting unborn children enough to satisfy your bloodlust?......
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
And Berlinski dispensed with Dawkins in Devil’s Delusion.

There are two problems with the origin of life: one is complexity and the other is the origin of biological information. Both problems are formidable but the latter is intractable. You could maybe get to complexity with a billion tornados but not so much with the origin of information. Actually, information is just part of the problem: it’s the origin of *an information system*.
Click to expand...

You do know that all of the information we are exchanging right now is based on nothing more than ones and zeroes, right? That's all software is. Ones and zeroes. That's the basis of digital computer code. All of it is nothing more than combinations of either a one or a zero, and many more of them. Out of simplicity comes complexity.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



And then there was the great oxidation event, possibly caused by stromatolites, a life form which existed on CO2, but emitted oxygen as a byproduct. They once covered the planet. But after the atmosphere became mostly oxygen, the stromatolites mostly died out. It was the first case of when the activities of a life form on Earth actually changed the atmosphere and the climate, which had a negative effect on them.

We currently exist in a time of a similar event. AGW.
Click to expand...

the faith is strong in this religious fanatic.......
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



You do know that all of the information we are exchanging right now is based on nothing more than ones and zeroes, right? That's all software is. Ones and zeroes. That's the basis of digital computer code. All of it is nothing more than combinations of either a one or a zero, and many more of them. Out of simplicity comes complexity.
Click to expand...

actually, someone has to sit down and translate all the complexity into something that a simple binary brain can understand........and if its not done right we call it garbage on both ends......in and out......
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
Then matter arranged itself to produce increased complexity over time. The problem is all known systems tend toward disorder over time: the car breaks down over time; the computer code becomes corrupt over time; mountains erode and turn to dust; satellite orbits decay and they crash to the earth.

In spite of our experience we are to believe that somehow lifeless matter arranged itself into living things. Is there some way I can accept that without exercising my faith?

Do you have an example of this process occurring anywhere else in nature?
Click to expand...

Mountains are created every day.
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
Who said anything about that lol?

I just find it ironic that so much faith is required to accept the materialistic worldview.
Click to expand...

You said something you believed was based on your faith.

But I am not required to accept your faith, nor your beliefs, in America.

And I do not.
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
How is it even possible to get matter to arrange itself into an RNA molecule lol?

RNA/DNA is notoriously unstable and can only exist [without breaking into fragments] inside the cell. It’s why they are forced to postulate the existence of a reducing atmosphere early in the earths history.

At some point it becomes an exercise in appealing to miracles as an explanation.
Click to expand...

Miracles are a part of faith. Many things which were considered miracles in ancient times are easily explained now with science.

Science is cause and effect.

That's why I believe in science but not in your faith.

And I am fine if you don't believe in my faith.

I doubt many conservatives do.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
as I recall that experiment they simply modified an existing RNA molecule......
Click to expand...

Without opening the link I can tell you the experiment was tightly controlled and used pre-existent RNA. The trick, is getting complex molecules to form spontaneously with zero control over the environment. And RNA is a very complex molecule.

Moreover, getting molecules that are designed[?] to replicate isn’t very informative.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



Miracles are a part of faith. Many things which were considered miracles in ancient times are easily explained now with science.

Science is cause and effect.

That's why I believe in science but not in your faith.

And I am fine if you don't believe in my faith.

I doubt many conservatives do.
Click to expand...

You keep your faith out of public schools and I’ll do the same.
 
Darth Omar said:
That’s begging the question.

A complex system can only sustain itself with more inputs of complexity from outside the system. A putative ‘first replicator’ or replicator system could only increase its complexity with inputs from somewhere[?] otherwise the system would degrade over time. Or at best, reach a point of equilibrium but that would represent a static state and a dead end in terms of increasing complexity.

And as pointed out, that ignores the information problem.
Click to expand...

There are a few thousand people on this entire planet who truly understand the second law of thermodynamics and all its implications -- and none of them are on this message board.

I do know that spontaneous complexity and structure can arise in open systems without violating any laws of thermodynamics. Examples abound.

Conservatives are way too quick to attempt to invoke the second law on everything from climate science to the origin of life. I really do not think you can just write of complexity as a violation of thermodynamics because some obscure blog claims it.
 
Darth Omar said:
How is it even possible to get matter to arrange itself into an RNA molecule lol?

RNA/DNA is notoriously unstable and can only exist [without breaking into fragments] inside the cell. It’s why they are forced to postulate the existence of a reducing atmosphere early in the earths history.

At some point it becomes an exercise in appealing to miracles as an explanation.
Click to expand...
RNA is just sequential amino acids - not even a protein. pretty easy to assemble in the primordial soup.the replicatiing enzymes are the trick
T
he subunits in the enzymes the team constructed each contain many nucleotides, so they are relatively complex and not something that would have been found floating in the primordial ooze.
Click to expand...
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
It's interesting when the barren or womb-less feel that they have the right to force other women to give birth, isn't it? Even better if the forced-birther happens to be a dude.
Click to expand...

that's a cop out. if you don't want a kid, don't screw or take preventative measures. the rest of us are not responsible for your irresponsibility.
 
Darth Omar said:
You get points for understanding *part* of the problem lol.

Nature not only would have to produce something from nothing in terms of complexity but it would have to contrive an information system that’s so complex we/they still don’t fully understand it.

I lack the faith. I’m a doubting Darth.
Click to expand...

Billions and billions of years is a long time. I know you don't like big numbers, but there it is.
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
You keep your faith out of public schools and I’ll do the same.
Click to expand...

How about you keep your faith out of government and I'll do the same as well?

I don't want to see any laws that force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term if she doesn't want to.

Let the woman decide for herself what happens with her body.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top