Cap and scam

[Cancel 2016.2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051802647.html

The entire concept of cap and trade reeks of potential corruption.

Why should a nuclear power plant that doesn't have much in emissions benefit financially from this system? ESPECIALLY given the waste they do produce is not exactly environmentally friendly.

Why in the world would you want to create derivatives on these credits? Why would you want Wall Street involved in this at all? This is my industry and I think it is absolutely moronic. Do these idiots in DC ever consider LEARNING from past mistakes?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7db40a5e-43d3-11de-a9be-00144feabdc0.html

 

[Bonestorm]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051802647.html

The entire concept of cap and trade reeks of potential corruption.

Why should a nuclear power plant that doesn't have much in emissions benefit financially from this system? ESPECIALLY given the waste they do produce is not exactly environmentally friendly.

Why in the world would you want to create derivatives on these credits? Why would you want Wall Street involved in this at all? This is my industry and I think it is absolutely moronic. Do these idiots in DC ever consider LEARNING from past mistakes?

They learn from past successes, too. Like cap and trade in sulfur dioxide emissions that was extremely successful in the 1990s.

The reality is that cap and trade is a mushy middle position designed to placate the so-called moderates that, while not opposed to controlling greenhouse gas emissions, do not want a straight tax.

 

[Bonestorm]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051802647.html

The entire concept of cap and trade reeks of potential corruption.

Why should a nuclear power plant that doesn't have much in emissions benefit financially from this system? ESPECIALLY given the waste they do produce is not exactly environmentally friendly.

Why in the world would you want to create derivatives on these credits? Why would you want Wall Street involved in this at all? This is my industry and I think it is absolutely moronic. Do these idiots in DC ever consider LEARNING from past mistakes?

Oy:

The writer is chairman of the board of Iowa-based MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co., a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, which also owns an 18 percent stake in The Washington Post Co.

No wonder Mr. Sokol is opposed to cap and trade and is fear-mongering about the doom and gloom it would bring.

 

[Bonestorm]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7db40a5e-43d3-11de-a9be-00144feabdc0.html

The big take away from this piece is this graf:

The problem is not with the basic idea. A well-designed cap-and-trade scheme, though lacking the simplicity and transparency of an outright carbon tax, can do the job nearly as well. Unfortunately, Congress seems keen to take the opportunities for gaming that cap and trade presents, and increase them tenfold.

Pretty much. Although I'd substitute "so-called moderates in Congress" for "Congress" in the last sentence.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

They learn from past successes, too. Like cap and trade in sulfur dioxide emissions that was extremely successful in the 1990s.

The reality is that cap and trade is a mushy middle position designed to placate the so-called moderates that, while not opposed to controlling greenhouse gas emissions, do not want a straight tax.

My biggest problems with it are....

1) They are going to give credits away.... WHY?

2) They are going to let Wall Street create derivatives on them and let investment banks buy them.... WHY?

3) This entire system simply is a financial goldmine for those energy companies that use nuclear power or nat gas powered electric plants. Anyone want to guess which portions of the country have these types of plants? Ok, I'll spoil it.... the Northeast and CA. Imagine that. The energy companies in heavy Democratic strongholds benefitting the most.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Oy:



No wonder Mr. Sokol is opposed to cap and trade and is fear-mongering about the doom and gloom it would bring.

Does not change the fact that everything he stated is correct. It is not fear-mongering. It is fact. This is yet another bullshit scheme created by Congress.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The big take away from this piece is this graf:



Pretty much. Although I'd substitute "so-called moderates in Congress" for "Congress" in the last sentence.

That is my biggest concern. This is setting up for corruption across the board.

 

[Bonestorm]

My biggest problems with it are....

1) They are going to give credits away.... WHY?

2) They are going to let Wall Street create derivatives on them and let investment banks buy them.... WHY?

3) This entire system simply is a financial goldmine for those energy companies that use nuclear power or nat gas powered electric plants. Anyone want to guess which portions of the country have these types of plants? Ok, I'll spoil it.... the Northeast and CA. Imagine that. The energy companies in heavy Democratic strongholds benefitting the most.

1) They shouldn't give them away. They should all be auctioned. Gving them away is the only way to get Blue Dogs and other so-called "moderates" on board.

2) The Wall Street derivatives crap is straight fear-mongering horseshit.

3) The entire system is a goldmine for any energy that doesn't use carbon. That's the whole fucking point, to disincentivize carbon use

 

[Whomever]

Cap and charade.
More empty stuff that our finiancial sector will sell and trade and leverage against.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

1) They shouldn't give them away. They should all be auctioned. Gving them away is the only way to get Blue Dogs and other so-called "moderates" on board.

2) The Wall Street derivatives crap is straight fear-mongering horseshit.

3) The entire system is a goldmine for any energy that doesn't use carbon. That's the whole fucking point, to disincentivize carbon use

1) Agreed, they should not be given away

2) yeah, pure fear mongering... nothing at all that could go wrong there. Wall Street being able to buy and sell credits and also create a derivative. Yep, never had an example of anything like that blowing up in our faces. Oh wait... we did... when we let them package mortgages, create credit default swaps to shift liability... yeah... what could possibly go wrong with bringing wall street into this.

3) Tell me moron... how does handing a nuclear power company credits that they can sell disincentive carbon? It doesn't. It simply gives them cash for doing NOTHING. They get this cash for FREE, because we do not charge them for the credits. The utilities and industries that need to buy the carbon credits are essentially paying these companies. WHY? Why not simply tax the industries that create the emissions? This is the corrupt portion of this idiotic concept.

 

[Bonestorm]

1) Agreed, they should not be given away

2) yeah, pure fear mongering... nothing at all that could go wrong there. Wall Street being able to buy and sell credits and also create a derivative. Yep, never had an example of anything like that blowing up in our faces. Oh wait... we did... when we let them package mortgages, create credit default swaps to shift liability... yeah... what could possibly go wrong with bringing wall street into this.

3) Tell me moron... how does handing a nuclear power company credits that they can sell disincentive carbon? It doesn't. It simply gives them cash for doing NOTHING. They get this cash for FREE, because we do not charge them for the credits. The utilities and industries that need to buy the carbon credits are essentially paying these companies. WHY? Why not simply tax the industries that create the emissions? This is the corrupt portion of this idiotic concept.

1) Good.

2) Properly regulated there is no issue. The problem is a lack of regulation. Are you an advocate of getting rid of Wall Street altogether?

3) My understanding is that nuclear power companies get no credits. I believe that's where your mistake is.

And I've explained why they won't tax carbon even though it is the ideal option.

 

[Topspin]

this is one place I strongly part ways with my fellow turbo-libs. Hopefully there are some republicans left with a spine that will stand up to Obama on this one.
What I keep hearing is tax carbon and give away fuel rebates to the poor.
The poor have gotten plenty from Obama already.

 

[DigitalDave]

2) Properly regulated there is no issue. The problem is a lack of regulation. Are you an advocate of getting rid of Wall Street altogether?

We don't need MORE regulation, we need BETTER regulation. That does not require giving more power to corrupt regulators who are in the back pocket of many of today's companies. We, as a citizenship, should be in charge of regulating those imbeciles as well. Unfortunatly, they are appointed, and no one knows shit about what they do or who they do it to.

Fire Bair, Bernanke, and Paulson LLC.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

1) Good.

2) Properly regulated there is no issue. The problem is a lack of regulation. Are you an advocate of getting rid of Wall Street altogether?

3) My understanding is that nuclear power companies get no credits. I believe that's where your mistake is.

And I've explained why they won't tax carbon even though it is the ideal option.

2) There is NO reason to have Wall Street trade these credits. NONE. Why would you want them to?

3) My understanding is that they are getting credits. Though I am not positive on that.

 

[DamnYankee]

....

Why should a nuclear power plant that doesn't have much in emissions benefit financially from this system? ESPECIALLY given the waste they do produce is not exactly environmentally friendly.
...

Don't let your earth worshiping heart be troubled. The environmental wackos will never let nuclear power see the benefits of Captain Trade.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051802647.html

The entire concept of cap and trade reeks of potential corruption.

Why should a nuclear power plant that doesn't have much in emissions benefit financially from this system? ESPECIALLY given the waste they do produce is not exactly environmentally friendly.

Why in the world would you want to create derivatives on these credits? Why would you want Wall Street involved in this at all? This is my industry and I think it is absolutely moronic. Do these idiots in DC ever consider LEARNING from past mistakes?

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Though I applaud the idea of incentivising the development alternative energy sources, the "Cap and Trade" idea is just way to open to market manipulation and other forms of corruption.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

We don't need MORE regulation, we need BETTER regulation. That does not require giving more power to corrupt regulators who are in the back pocket of many of today's companies. We, as a citizenship, should be in charge of regulating those imbeciles as well. Unfortunatly, they are appointed, and no one knows shit about what they do or who they do it to.

Fire Bair, Bernanke, and Paulson LLC.

"Get rid of the 12 new advisory boards, committees and other institutions established under the Waxman-Markey bill. "

Come on.... what's another 12 'advisory' boards among friends. If we create 12 new boards, that means you get the privledge of bribing (I mean lobbying) 12 times

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Though I applaud the idea of incentivising the development alternative energy sources, the "Cap and Trade" idea is just way to open to market manipulation and other forms of corruption.

I absolutely support the idea of incentivising alt energy sources. 100% behind that. Once again we see the idiots in DC (both parties) making something that should be simply into a complex scheme filled with ways to exploit it.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

cap and trade is a bullshit democrat scam to milk money and push forward a false sense of accomplishment about fixing a bogus global warming catastrophe....


talk about playing on fears