Join me, please.

A. It's a global market today .. period, point blank, bottom line.

Either manufactuers learn to compete with their global competitors or they go out of business.

B. The biggest impediment to success in the US auto industry if health care costs.

As long as US companies have to bear he costs of healthcare, they will not survive.

C. "Patriotism" is no subsitute for quality.

Both my wife and I drive Mercedes because nothing compares to it's value, safety, and reliability.

D. Just how far do you plan to take your buy American plan? I'm betting your house is full of products you buy that are not made in America.
 
Topspin said:
I buy quality which means americans haven't been in the running.
I am considering a ford escape with the low pricing right now.
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If you are buying American only buy the pickup trucks or the sports cars, everything else cannot measure to the quality of the foreign jobs.
 
Dixie said:
Here's the thing, the American auto industry has screwed the pooch. Years of being manipulated by the UAW, has left them at a distinct disadvantage on the world market, because they can no longer compete. Once was a time, American quality could offset the increased cost of American union workers, but those days are long gone. The typical American auto worker is more concerned with how much of a raise he will get, how much paid leave, or how much pension, not about the quality of the product.

So, now we have pinheads screaming at us and shooting us birds, because we aren't buying a piece of shit car for way more than it's worth? And they won't stop with screaming and bird shooting, they will eventually try to mandate what turd cars we buy, through import tariffs or outright boycotts of foreign cars. Fascist little bastards!

I have no bias for or against American made cars. I have owned about every make there is, and some were good and others not so good, but I have to say, Japanese-built cars are the most reliable, dependable, and cheapest to operate. If American car companies start making a product which rivals the Japanese, then I will buy it! Until then, don't ask me to purchase an inferior product, just so I can continue to support a "socialized labor" system that has failed miserably.
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This is exactly spot on. This was really a completely predictable failure.

blackascoal said:
A. It's a global market today .. period, point blank, bottom line.

Either manufactuers learn to compete with their global competitors or they go out of business.

B. The biggest impediment to success in the US auto industry if health care costs.

As long as US companies have to bear he costs of healthcare, they will not survive.

C. "Patriotism" is no subsitute for quality.

Both my wife and I drive Mercedes because nothing compares to it's value, safety, and reliability.

D. Just how far do you plan to take your buy American plan? I'm betting your house is full of products you buy that are not made in America.
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The only thing better than a socialist in a Mercedes is a socialist in a Rolls Royce.
 
Damocles said:
If you are buying American only buy the pickup trucks or the sports cars, everything else cannot measure to the quality of the foreign jobs.
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My Ford Expedition is the nicest vehicle I've ever owned. I'd put it up against a Nissan Armada any day.
 
cawacko said:
If you want to kick down some cash and help a brother buy a new car instead of a used one I'd be glad to join you in supporting our American automakers.

But to claim its boring and stale nonsense to those who can't afford new cars sounds awfully free market and libertarian of you.
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LOL - listen we were poor once too, may be again, but used American is American. My first love a 55 Chevy was used and beat but I loved it and fixed it.
 
DigitalDave said:
There is no 'American' automobiles anymore midcan. My dad used to work for Ford, and he lost his job to China or Mexico. The plants shut-down here and moved to where there was cheaper labor.
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Disagree, the cars have a where they are made and where parts are made list. I do agree that work is going other places, there is no way an American can compete with third world nation wages unless we make ourselves the same. We may be doing that!
 
Dixie said:
Here's the thing, the American auto industry has screwed the pooch. Years of being manipulated by the UAW, has left them at a distinct disadvantage on the world market, because they can no longer compete. Once was a time, American quality could offset the increased cost of American union workers, but those days are long gone. The typical American auto worker is more concerned with how much of a raise he will get, how much paid leave, or how much pension, not about the quality of the product....
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Dixie engages in his usual sleight of reason and Blackascoal follows like a puppy. Which is it Dixie, the UAW or the quality, you seem a bit confused there but in truth you are confused in your reasoning only - and then 'you know' there are good and bad American cars but are still confused. Seems you want to put down American cars because they are made by Americans who make a decent wage, why not have the balls to just say it instead of engaging in this circuitous nonsense. How in the heck do you arrive at fair wages and working conditions as socialistic, demonstrates your complete inability to be honest.

http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-recalls/01-int/toyota/index.html

Oh and our Buick is rated number one in quality ahead of the over priced pretentious Lexus.

http://boards.msn.com/thread.aspx?threadid=1016266
 
midcan5 said:
...

Oh and our Buick is rated number one in quality ...
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I rarely believe in ratings as they tend to be subjective. People who spend the most cash have a tendency to rate stuff high to justify their expenditure. Even CU rates cars poorly, IMO. Back in the late 70's when I had an old Ford it was rated poorly against Toyota, and the ones that my friends drove I was not impressed, as the interiors would literally fall apart with a few years. Plus I could haul all kinds of stuff in mine and ignore speed bumps.

One time I had a trunk half full of firewood, headed down the beach, and a friend was following me in his lightly loaded, brand new Toyota. I just ignored the speed bump as usual and he didn't see it and he bottomed out hard. Of course he blamed me, like I was supposed to know his car was a POS.
 
Southern Man said:
My Ford Expedition is the nicest vehicle I've ever owned. I'd put it up against a Nissan Armada any day.
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For those it is the safety. They topple in a strong wind if you are driving at a slight angle.

Although SUVs are pretty much pickup trucks with toppers on them and seats added in...

Yeah, I'd say SUVs too. Can't think of everything.
 
Damocles said:
For those it is the safety. They topple in a strong wind if you are driving at a slight angle.

Although SUVs are pretty much pickup trucks with toppers on them and seats added in...

Yeah, I'd say SUVs too. Can't think of everything.
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They used to be based on pickup platforms, but not anymore. For Fords, not since 1992. My Expedition has IRS and air springs, and shares nothing with the pickup chassis. Its also very stable.
 
webbway said:
MC owns an American made car, a American made bicycle, and yet he probably submitted his post from a computer made in Japan, go to the mirror and give yourself one of these.
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That's two ahead of tools and fools like you, and it is an old Dell, made in China. But why are you questioning that? You are a corporate tool who buys the BS.
 
such silliness....as if buying an "american" car is buying something solely american....

you stop buying foreign cars made in the US and you are advocating putting those american workers out of work....such hypocrisy and lunacy
 
Yurt said:
such silliness....as if buying an "american" car is buying something solely american....

you stop buying foreign cars made in the US and you are advocating putting those american workers out of work....such hypocrisy and lunacy
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I'm sorry this is over your head.
 
midcan5 said:
I was riding home today after a middle distance bicycle ride, tired and a bit out of shape when I started counting cars, America - foreign, American - foreign. It occurred to me if only a small percentage of these people, the people who can afford more than a used clunker, bought American there would be no problems in one of our largest industries today. And lots of people would have a job and lots of businesses would be OK. May even help those incompetent bankers.

So I started giving thumbs up for American and thumbs down for foreign. Hard to distinguish which foreign car is made here, but no need I am a bit of a hard core American when it comes to cars. My '55' Chevy was my first love.

I'm sure the people thought me spastic, as my left hand thumb pointed up, then down, then up as cars drove by. Did anyone figure it out I wondered. Who is this nut! So if the whiners who lost the election can out of the blue, protest taxes, can we not protest something that has been going on for years due to cheaper prices, support structures, and no pensions, but still is having an insidious affect on our industrial base?

So if you own foreign go to you nearest mirror and give yourself a thumbs down and if you own American and thus support all of us and America, a thumbs up is due and thank you. Take to the streets and express yourself. The bankers thank you too.

Oh, and my bicycle is made in America too.

http://bumperstickers.cafepress.com/made-in-usa

http://www.politicalpass.com/2009/03/buy-american-support-yourself/
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Are you sure about that? What do you ride? A Trek? The frame might be American made but I bet most of the components are not. Does it have Shimano (Japanese) or Campy (Italian) groupo? How bout the saddle? Most of those are made in Italy except Brooks leather saddles which is what I have (British) and how bout the wheels, did you make them your self or do you ride Mavic or Woblers (French)? Then there's tires do you ride continentals or michelens (French) or Bridgestones (Japanese)? I'd bet to wager that most of the mass of your bike is made of foreign parts and only 2.5 to 4 lbs (the frame) is American if even that. Many Trek frames are made over seas and the bikes themselves are assempled in the USA or the tubing is bought from over seas and the frames contructed here.

I ride a Schwinn Paramount (real men ride steel!) that came out of the Waterford plant (last year of production for Schwinn), The tubing is made in Taiwan (True Temper OS) and all the parts are Japanese except the Brooks saddle, Mavic wheels, Look Pedals and continental tires (all foreign made). Essentially the frame was mitered and brazed and painted and the parts were assembled in the USA, that's about it. So when Waterford or Trek say's "Made in the USA" i have to take that with a grain of salt when I slip on my Shimano cleats and clip into my Look Pedals and sit my ass on my Brooks Saddle. LOL
 
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Mottleydude said:
Are you sure about that? What do you ride? A Trek? The frame might be American made but I bet most of the components are not. Does it have Shimano (Japanese) or Campy (Italian) groupo? How bout the saddle? Most of those are made in Italy except Brooks leather saddles which is what I have (British) and how bout the wheels, did you make them your self or do you ride Mavic or Woblers (French)? Then there's tires do you ride continentals or michelens (French) or Bridgestones (Japanese)? I'd bet to wager that most of the mass of your bike is made of foreign parts and only 2.5 to 4 lbs (the frame) is American if even that. Many Trek frames are made over seas and the bikes themselves are assempled in the USA or the tubing is bought from over seas and the frames contructed here.

I ride a Schwinn Paramount (real men ride steel!) that came out of the Waterford plant (last year of production for Schwinn), The tubing is made in Taiwan (True Temper OS) and all the parts are Japanese except the Brooks saddle, Mavic wheels, Look Pedals and continental tires (all foreign made). Essentially the frame was mitered and brazed and painted and the parts were assembled in the USA, that's about it. So when Waterford or Trek say's "Made in the USA" i have to take that with a grain of salt when I slip on my Shimano cleats and clip into my Look Pedals and sit my ass on my Brooks Saddle. LOL
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I can also make the same point by going over how many foreign parts are in a Ford. Probably 2/3rd to 3/4th.

Buy Ameria is UnAmerican.

But the best product at the best price is American and I don't doubt that Americans can make the best.

Much of these consumer items that are foreign made are made over seas because the return on investment just isn't there for American Investors to invest on manufacturing those products here.
 
Mottleydude said:
I can also make the same point by going over how many foreign parts are in a Ford. Probably 2/3rd to 3/4th.

Buy Ameria is UnAmerican.

But the best product at the best price is American and I don't doubt that Americans can make the best.

Much of these consumer items that are foreign made are made over seas because the return on investment just isn't there for American Investors to invest on manufacturing those products here.
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I don't doubt that Americans could make the best. I doubt that they would make the best at the price we would pay for it. Americans think they are worth more than those people that make the foreign jobbies, never thinking that they are also Americans....
 
Damocles said:
I don't doubt that Americans could make the best. I doubt that they would make the best at the price we would pay for it. Americans think they are worth more than those people that make the foreign jobbies, never thinking that they are also Americans....
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I wouldn't go that far either. American manufacturers do quite well and our employees in manufacturing earn such high wages because they are some of the most productive and skilled workers in the world. Where as many of these low tech comodities we buy require lots of unskilled labor that can be provided form more cost affectively over seas. The profit margins just aren't there in the US market.

My sister is a union laborer at Ford. But it's grossly unfair to compare her to an unskilled laborer in China. She has an associates degree in mechanical engineering and is a skilled CNC machinist. She not only had her two years of college but also had to work in a 2 year apprentice program and a 2 year journeyman program before the union and Ford approved her as skilled and thus earn a skilled tradesperson wage of over $30/hr. I'd say she's earned that. If Ford went under she probably wouldn't be making as much as she is now....but I seriously doubt she'd be making minimum wage either.

I mean essentially the problem that you're pointing out is that we have an abundance of highly skilled labor in the country and not a lot of unskilled labor willing to do low paid menial labor jobs. That's a nice problem to have.
 
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