The Language of God

I hate the idea of slamming religion in general. I would agree that organized religion has been responsible for a great deal of suffering throughout history. I think if we researched all of it, though, we could make a case that a very small minority in any religion are responsible for that.

These are people who generally manipulated the tenets of any religion to their own purpose. If not for the religion they used as a tool to do that, I'd guess that most would have found another way to manipulate & achieve their ends. I could be wrong, though.

Regardless, despite the vocal few who would speak to the contrary, I think most people who practice a religion do so for their own personal spirituality, and seek higher truth with their choices....
 
AssHatZombie said:
So no new agey groups raise money? Mainline churches have nothing to say about the connection to the divine?

you're simply wrong on both counts.

Make another attempt at how you eco wacko earth mother gaia anti-human fascisto-genociders are so much better than methodists.
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I did not make a distinction between "new agey groups" and mainline churches. And churches and "new agey groups" may help people find their connection to the divine. But the organizations are the source of problems with religion not the individual's spirituality.
 
Onceler said:
I hate the idea of slamming religion in general. I would agree that organized religion has been responsible for a great deal of suffering throughout history. I think if we researched all of it, though, we could make a case that a very small minority in any religion are responsible for that.

These are people who generally manipulated the tenets of any religion to their own purpose. If not for the religion they used as a tool to do that, I'd guess that most would have found another way to manipulate & achieve their ends. I could be wrong, though.

Regardless, despite the vocal few who would speak to the contrary, I think most people who practice a religion do so for their own personal spirituality, and seek higher truth with their choices....
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That "minority manipulating the tenets" is the leadership of religions themselves. The very concept of god's authority being transmissable only through an elite few is the very essence of totalitarianism; this makes most organized religions primarily totalitarian structures.

Religion is foul, but the spiritualism thumpers and their new agey cleansings and new order anti-human intentions are sometimes more bothersome.
 
WinterBorn said:
Spirituality is about each person's connection with the Divine. Religion is about organizing people and raising money. There is a positive side in the fellowship but the rest is to divisive.
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Religion is my God is bigger, better, and more real than your God, thus divisive by nature.

"God" and the diviine are not required by spirituality. Compassion and humanity are required. Spirituality is a connection to all people, regardless of labels.

I agree with you on the positive aspects of fellowship.
 
blackascoal said:
Religion is my God is bigger, better, and more real than your God, thus divisive by nature.

God's and the diviane are not required by spirituality. Compassion and humanity are required. Spirituality is a connection to all people, regardless of labels.

I agree with you on the positive aspects of fellowship.
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When I talked about the Divine I was thinking more of the divine in all things not some distant overseer of the universe.
 
WinterBorn said:
I did not make a distinction between "new agey groups" and mainline churches. And churches and "new agey groups" may help people find their connection to the divine. But the organizations are the source of problems with religion not the individual's spirituality.
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maybe you don't, but many do. Like people getting hooked up Transmission Meditation, Share International and Benjamin Creme.
 
AssHatZombie said:
the "inspiration" you're hanging your idiot hat on is completely unquantifiable.

Why does your argument depend on defining words a certain way?

you're as dumb as fucking rock, seriously. Verbose, yet moronic. You try so hard, yet you CREATE stupidity with your moronicness.
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LOL... like you create new words?

Whether it is 'quantifiable' is not the point. Humans possess something the rest of the animal kingdom doesn't. It is illogical to conclude this is because of simple curiosity found in abundance throughout the animal kingdom. If that were a logical assumption, we would expect to see certain species competing with humans for intelligent advancement. We don't see this, at least not in the universe I am living in, no telling what's in yours.

In science, this becomes an unexplained intangible, but everything has an explanation. We don't always discover it, but an explanation does exist. Perhaps because it is out of the realm of science as we understand science? Maybe there is something more 'advanced' than science, which we haven't yet become enlightened to, much as humans once weren't enlightened to science? You, and many others like you, are arrogant enough to think, what science currently knows and understands, is all there is. If it can't be explained by science, it's just because science hasn't studied it enough yet. It never occurs to you, that science is imperfect, full of contradictions, full of unanswered questions, and inadequate to explain everything in our known universe, much less in realms of dimension we simply can't comprehend as humans. Indeed, it has helped man to understand better, the universe around him, but it hasn't answered all the questions and by definition, it really can't. Science doesn't seek to draw conclusion.

Last weekend, I had a long philosophical conversation with a friend. I am not sure of his denominational affiliation, I think he said Greek Orthodox... not sure... Anyway, I don't know that his personal beliefs are part of their doctrine or whatever, but he told me this is what he believes... When the Bible speaks of God "creating man in his own image" it is not intended literally, as most people interpret. He thinks this is where some entity bestowed upon "cave men" the ability to organize civilization. It was metaphoric, the 'creation' of man in a different image. There is nothing in what he believes, which is contradictory to any scientific theory of origin.

This is the case with most people of religious faith, they do not dispute scientific principles, or deny scientific assumptions may be true. Spirituality is not dependent upon Science, it never will be. Since science is incapable of proving God, it is unfair for science to demand evidence of God. Bringing us back to Dr. Collins assertion that humans require both, a well-grounded understanding of science and a foundational spiritual faith.

Science can explain to us, how the universe came to be, but Science can't explain why it came to be. Science can explain how things serve a purpose in our universe, but Science can't explain why there is purpose to serve. Some questions can't be asked of Science, it is inadequate to answer them. This is where humans turn to Spirituality. It's not to "explain the unexplained," but rather, to answer what science can't.
 
Dixie said:
LOL... like you create new words?

Whether it is 'quantifiable' is not the point. Humans possess something the rest of the animal kingdom doesn't.
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You defeated yourself from go. How do you know humans possess it if it is not quantifiable?

Too easy. Stopped reading your nonsense after that.
 
AssHatZombie said:
You defeated yourself from go. How do you know humans possess it if it is not quantifiable?

Too easy. Stopped reading your nonsense after that.
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I never argued quantification, you brought that up. I said it isn't the point, and it isn't. We don't need to settle the 'debate of quantifiable' because we can observe there is a difference between humans and the rest of the animal world. Whether you can personal quantify that, is irrelevant, it is a fact.

Your problem is, you don't read what is posted. You ignore it, and just continue in your own pathetic stubborn ignorance, to rant whatever you are ranting. It's as if you think you have some power of pontification, where you can make things factually accurate and true, if you just rant about it enough. But guess what? We are mostly grown-ups here, and we understand you don't have those magic powers, and the truth of the matter is, you are a clueless idiot who can't develop an argument to support the idiocy you spew. Instead, you just blather on, ignoring the points raised by whomever is debating you, refusing to acknowledge facts or accept conventional wisdom.
 
Dixie said:
You are a perpetual liar. It's a miracle if you can get through breakfast without lying. You are a pathological liar, you will literally lie instead of telling the truth, just to see if you can get away with the lie! I bet you thought the post you made was cute and funny, and it would irritate me, but I am used to you lying. It doesn't bother me when you abandon the truth and start slandering people, because that's what you live for! And while your pinhead buddies probably thought it was cute and funny, it just validates what the rest of us already knew about you, that you can't tell the truth, and you are a snot-nose little twerp pinhead jerk. The fact that I don't have to point that out, that you've done all the work for me, really makes me smile. Thanks!
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Wow, all that and you never said how I lied. Amazing.

Not that it matters. Your accusation of me being a pathological liar is pure psychological projection. That much is obvious.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Wow, all that and you never said how I lied. Amazing.

Not that it matters. Your accusation of me being a pathological liar is pure psychological projection. That much is obvious.
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How can we tell when ib1claptrap is lying? When his lips are moving or his fingers are typing! How did you lie in those two particular posts? Okay...

LIE #1: "I don't believe for a second his story about getting an undergraduate degree in psych."

It isn't a story, it is a fact. Should I scan my degree and post it? Here, you accuse me of lying, without any basis for that whatsoever, except for your own inept judgment. Either present something to back up your argument, or STFU.

LIE #2: "The guy clearly has a personality disorder, which you'd think he'd spot himself if he had such a degree."

I have no mental or physical disorders at this time. Would you like a certificate from my general physician? Again, you make a false statement that you have absolutely no evidence to support.

LIE #3: "Not to mention his clear lack of understanding of the scientific process..."

I fully understand the scientific process, what I fail to understand is this faith-based concept of science, where anything out of the realm of science is automatically deemed false, and the theories espoused in science are seen as empirical truths. At times, I seem to be the only person here who understands that science doesn't draw conclusions. Perhaps only me and Einstein can comprehend such a thing, but it would seem others should be capable of the same intelligence.

LIE #4: "...or respect for science in general..."

I have enormous respect for science, and I have often articulated it. Again, you make a false charge, which you simply can't support, and don't attempt to. While you demand for me to tell you how you've lied, you don't want to extend that courtesy to me, you simply want to make the statement and have everyone slap you on the back in agreement.

LIE #5: "is pretty good evidence against his claim."

There is no evidence, it doesn't exist, you haven't shown it. I haven't "claimed" anything, I stated facts you can't refute. Humans possess something more profound than simple curiosity, and are capable of great achievement and advancement. That is a true statement, whether you want to argue about it or not. Now, we can debate why it is that humans possess this attribute, but so far, you haven't done that. Let's see some scientific evidence from your theories of evolution, to explain why mankind has this profound ability to achieve greatness? No, you can't show us that, because it doesn't exist either, and since it doesn't, your only alternative in this argument, is to destroy the basis for it to begin with and deny reality. Tangle up the debate in semantics arguments, ignore obvious facts of life, whatever you need to do, in order to tear down any credibility in what I said, because you can't argue against it.

LIE #6: "Think multiple personality disorder."

Expounding on your earlier lie, you have now diagnosed me with a mental illness which actually effects less than 0.2% of the population. Being that you are not a medical doctor, and have no experience in mental evaluation, and have never examined me or met me in person, I think the odds of you being correct on this, are about 20 trillion to 1.

Lie #7: "Dixie IS Toby."

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not Toby, nor have I ever been Toby. I'll gladly give permission to Damo or Grind to confirm this through my IP, if you like. Again, this lie and slander appears to be designed to impugn my integrity, to destroy my credibility, so you won't have to articulate a counter-point to my arguments. What is hilariously funny to me is, you think people can't see this or read through it! You really honestly think that people read your little insults and lies, and they believe them on some level!

Welp... there it is... 5 sentences and 7 lies! I personally think you just can't help yourself, it seems you just like to lie and see if you can get away with it. In instances where something threatens your stupid idiotic Atheistic world view, you literally can't control the lies spewing out of every orifice of your body, it just sends you into unreasonable overdrive. Therefore, you end up saying really stupid shit, and contradicting common sense and logic often. It would do you some good to have some self-reflection, and realize that I don't really give a rats ass what you think of me personally, or what you want to lie about.
 
"I have no mental or physical disorders at this time"

:lmao:


General Physicians do not decide on mental disorders Dixie.
You with a psych degree should know this.
 
leave it to dixie to consider creationism empirical and the result of logical thinking (i.e. a watch needs a watchmaker, life needs an intelligent designer) while in the same breath he talks of science as a "faith based concept"

how fucked is that?
 
LLOL

I leave it in the good hands of the JPP community to determine for themselves the merit (or lack thereof) of any of those arguments.
 
Grind said:
leave it to dixie to consider creationism empirical and the result of logical thinking (i.e. a watch needs a watchmaker, life needs an intelligent designer) while in the same breath he talks of science as a "faith based concept"

how fucked is that?
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Logic does dictate there is a purpose and reason for the universe. I do not know that this could ever be "empirically" defined, but I do know that mankind possesses spirituality for a reason, and science indicates this as well. All animal attributes are present for a reason in nature. Logic does say that a watch needs a watchmaker, and the concept of a watch creating itself through random events of chance are virtually impossible.

I never said science was a faith based concept. Every now and then, you suffer from Pinhead Reading Disorder! I said I disagree with this faith-based concept some people have OF science. You know, where they USE science to support their Atheist agenda, or attack religious faith. Science doesn't disprove Religion any more than Religion disproves Science, but it's continually attempted! This was the point of the Dr. Collins book, of which this thread is about. He is the man who mapped the human genome, our genetic blueprint. He believes in God! If this man of science can comprehend the possibilities of creation homogeneous with science knowledge, why can't you guys? It's precisely what I've said all along, that Science has it's place, as does Human Spirituality. They BOTH play a role in what we are, who we are, and why we are. Science can't answer certain questions, Spirituality can. As humans trying to understand our universe, it is important to explore every aspect, not just the ones we happen to have faith in the most.
 
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