assassination and terrorism

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
the anti-abortion (sometimes called pro-life) movement has spawned assassins and terrorists

they choose to disobey the law

if they make a personal choice, that is their choice

when they choose to force their choice on others, they cross a line into terrorism

when they choose to kill, they cross a line into assassination

those that condone or say the actions are justified, support assassination and terrorism no matter how much they may 'deplore' the actions

or do you only obey those laws that you agree with...like me
 
Assassination and terrorism are quite different things, though the latter may at times employ the former as a method.

Terrorism mostly employs random methods - killing people in attacks that do not target specific subjects, but rather use the randomness of their actions to instill fear (ie: terror - therefore, terrorism.)

Assassination, by definition, targets a specific subject to achieve a specific purpose; usually under the philosophy of cutting off the head and the body will die. It is a method rarely used by terrorists because it a: does not terrorize (unless you are next in line of succession) and b: they don't WANT to cut off the head of their target authority, but rather force them to make decisions favorable to their cause. In most cases assassination is detrimental to a terrorist goals because the successor is often less intelligent, and more belligerent (kill the fuckers!) than the predecessor.

That being said, the ISSUE of abortion is a sticky issue, with strong emotional content. Those kinds of issues are bound to develop it's share of extremists. While the law is in favor of legalized abortion, any would-be extremists on the side of legal abortion have nothing to kick about, so they aren't going to be apparent. But if the law were to go the other way, you can bet they would come skreebling out of the wood work.

The organized anti-abortion/pro-life movement has nothing to do with the existence of those extremists on the issue. It is the issue, not that some organize against it. Suggesting that the existence of the pro-life movement is somehow responsible is disingenuous at best, and also contains the possible implication that people who disagree with the law on such explosive issues are supposed to just STFU in order to "avoid" the possibility of encouraging the extremists. Bull shit.
 
Good Luck said:
Assassination and terrorism are quite different things, though the latter may at times employ the former as a method.

Terrorism mostly employs random methods - killing people in attacks that do not target specific subjects, but rather use the randomness of their actions to instill fear (ie: terror - therefore, terrorism.)

Assassination, by definition, targets a specific subject to achieve a specific purpose; usually under the philosophy of cutting off the head and the body will die. It is a method rarely used by terrorists because it a: does not terrorize (unless you are next in line of succession) and b: they don't WANT to cut off the head of their target authority, but rather force them to make decisions favorable to their cause. In most cases assassination is detrimental to a terrorist goals because the successor is often less intelligent, and more belligerent (kill the fuckers!) than the predecessor.

That being said, the ISSUE of abortion is a sticky issue, with strong emotional content. Those kinds of issues are bound to develop it's share of extremists. While the law is in favor of legalized abortion, any would-be extremists on the side of legal abortion have nothing to kick about, so they aren't going to be apparent. But if the law were to go the other way, you can bet they would come skreebling out of the wood work.

The organized anti-abortion/pro-life movement has nothing to do with the existence of those extremists on the issue. It is the issue, not that some organize against it. Suggesting that the existence of the pro-life movement is somehow responsible is disingenuous at best, and also contains the possible implication that people who disagree with the law on such explosive issues are supposed to just STFU in order to "avoid" the possibility of encouraging the extremists. Bull shit.
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hi gl

the group mentioned is not a homogeneous group like other large large groups are not homogeneous. it is a group with a common purpose. some members of that groups see assassination as a worthwhile endeavor. some members see terrorism as a worthwhile endeavor. on the other end some members see offering to pay for prenatal, natal and post natal care and adoption (this group of members has my full support). some members use the political process (while i do not agree with them, i respect them).

perhaps one of the better options is to try to prevent unwanted pregnancies with education and providing contraceptives (including teenagers).

now the difficult categories; rape, incest, fetuses that will not live outside the uterus and highly deformed fetuses and one truly awful category, fetuses that have died in the uterus

moving on, what about the use of 'the man should not have killed the doctor, but he deserved it and it prevented more abortions'
 
Dr. Tiller was murdered. There is no way to justify that action, nor any valid claim to some nefarious ultimate good. Of course there will be some reactionaries who subtly or openly approve of the murder.

As for the rest, you are making an assumption that the person guilty of the murder (who may or may not be the man currently accused) is part of a "group" whose intent and purposes are the extreme of the overall anti-abortion movement. There is no evidence to indicate that assumption is true. By all indications, this murder as well as previous murders of doctors and vandalism/bombings of abortions clinics, etc. have been the work of individual extremists, NOT members of some extremist group. Unless you have actual evidence that there IS an extremist GROUP involved, making statements that there is comes from nothing more than speculation aimed at demonizing the overall anti-abortion movement.

Of course, reactionary attitudes contained in rhetoric such as "the anti-abortion (sometimes called pro-life) movement has spawned assassins and terrorists" was expected. It's not really different from those reactionaries who paint all of Islam as having "spawned" the fundamental extremists that attacked us on 9/11/01.
 
Some protesters showed up at the guys funeral. How crude and tasteless is that?

But the protesters were very sorrowful about Grasshoppers death, so they are good people :usflag:
 
Good Luck said:
Dr. Tiller was murdered. There is no way to justify that action, nor any valid claim to some nefarious ultimate good. Of course there will be some reactionaries who subtly or openly approve of the murder.

As for the rest, you are making an assumption that the person guilty of the murder (who may or may not be the man currently accused) is part of a "group" whose intent and purposes are the extreme of the overall anti-abortion movement. There is no evidence to indicate that assumption is true. By all indications, this murder as well as previous murders of doctors and vandalism/bombings of abortions clinics, etc. have been the work of individual extremists, NOT members of some extremist group. Unless you have actual evidence that there IS an extremist GROUP involved, making statements that there is comes from nothing more than speculation aimed at demonizing the overall anti-abortion movement.

Of course, reactionary attitudes contained in rhetoric such as "the anti-abortion (sometimes called pro-life) movement has spawned assassins and terrorists" was expected. It's not really different from those reactionaries who paint all of Islam as having "spawned" the fundamental extremists that attacked us on 9/11/01.
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please not that i said 'some' not all

there are 'splinter' groups that promulgate assassination and terrorist tactics that usually fill the minds of unstable individuals the desire to strike at the abominable abortions (sometimes call pro-choice)

there is a major divide in this nation on the subject of abortion and expect it to continue because the beliefs on each side are quite strong

what has changed is that the DHS is investigation various sub-groups of the anti-abortion (sometimes call pro-life) movement

i have no problem with 'fringe' groups until they cross over the line to violence
 
Whomever said:
Some protesters showed up at the guys funeral. How crude and tasteless is that?

But the protesters were very sorrowful about Grasshoppers death, so they are good people :usflag:
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Yeah, the people were specifically thinking about David Carradine during this whole thing. What specifically did you hate so much about the man, USGED?
 
Threedee said:
Yeah, the people were specifically thinking about David Carradine during this whole thing. What specifically did you hate so much about the man, USGED?
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I did not hate anything about the man threepee. I just did not worship him. He personally meant no more to me than Bob Smith in Kansas. Whom I have never met.
 
DonQuixote said:
the anti-abortion (sometimes called pro-life) movement has spawned assassins and terrorists

they choose to disobey the law

if they make a personal choice, that is their choice

when they choose to force their choice on others, they cross a line into terrorism

when they choose to kill, they cross a line into assassination

those that condone or say the actions are justified, support assassination and terrorism no matter how much they may 'deplore' the actions

or do you only obey those laws that you agree with...like me
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DonQ, in order to connect the Pro-Life movement with "assassination and terrorism" you will have to show where the Pro-Life movement has advocated or orchestrated such incidents. It is akin to someone blaming 9/11 on Muslims, and not stopping to consider the width of the brush they're using.

I know of NO pro-lifer who has applauded or condoned in any way, the killing of Dr. Tiller. It was deplorable and despicable, and the act of a lone nut case. You simply can't blame the entire group, based on the actions of one person. Your emotional sentiments would have us believe, you expect pro-life people to completely abandon their pro-life stance because to continue supporting pro-life issues, is to support and condone terrorism and assassination, and that is an extremely unreasonable expectation to have.

40 million babies have been murdered since Roe... THAT is terrorism and assassination on a BIBLICAL scale. In fact, it dwarfs the Holocaust and the Killing Fields combined. Yet, you continue to actively support it, advocate it, and condone more of it. What does that make you?
 
I know of NO pro-lifer who has applauded or condoned in any way, the killing of Dr. Tiller.
//

Why then did anti abortion protestors show up at his funeral?
 
Whomever said:
I know of NO pro-lifer who has applauded or condoned in any way, the killing of Dr. Tiller.
//

Why then did anti abortion protestors show up at his funeral?
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I suppose the same reason anti-war protesters show up at American soldiers funerals. Are you saying the anti-war movement applauds and condones the killing of US soldiers? That's a pretty remarkable revelation!
 
Dixie said:
Hurts like hell to get tangled up in your own logic, huh?
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Bad analogy.
Soldiers were killed in war, the DR was murdered.
Unless you consider the soldiers killed in Iraq as murdered by Bush?

Besides I do not condone protestors at soldiers funerals either. They should be shot. At least in the leg. I do not think anyone should protest at any funeral, even yours.
 
Whomever said:
Bad analogy.
Soldiers were killed in war, the DR was murdered.
Unless you consider the soldiers killed in Iraq as murdered by Bush?

Besides I do not condone protestors at soldiers funerals either. They should be shot. At least in the leg. I do not think anyone should protest at any funeral, even yours.
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You prefer to sit behind a computer and protest David Carradine's funeral from afar then, eh?
 
Threedee said:
You prefer to sit behind a computer and protest David Carradine's funeral from afar then, eh?
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Where have I protested his funeral? I just think it is amusing how people worship those on the tube.
I protest those sheeple.
 
Whomever said:
Where have I protested his funeral? I just think it is amusing how people worship those on the tube.
I protest those sheeple.
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Look, I honestly haven't given Carradine a single thought since I saw Kill Bill, and before that, never, because I had never heard of him. Its not worship, its respect. But I do happen to be a huge lover of film as a major source of leisure.
 
Threedee said:
Look, I honestly haven't given Carradine a single thought since I saw Kill Bill, and before that, never, because I had never heard of him. Its not worship, its respect. But I do happen to be a huge lover of film as a major source of leisure.
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I too like film/video as a source of leisure. But I do not respect anyone for being a character on a show or movie.
 
DonQuixote said:
please not that i said 'some' not all

there are 'splinter' groups that promulgate assassination and terrorist tactics that usually fill the minds of unstable individuals the desire to strike at the abominable abortions (sometimes call pro-choice)

there is a major divide in this nation on the subject of abortion and expect it to continue because the beliefs on each side are quite strong

what has changed is that the DHS is investigation various sub-groups of the anti-abortion (sometimes call pro-life) movement

i have no problem with 'fringe' groups until they cross over the line to violence
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I never said that you said "all". However, what you DID say was the MOVEMENT (which denotes ALL) "has spawned assassins and terrorists".

As I pointed out, that statement is the very equivalent of stating that Islam "spawned terrorists". Islam in no way spawned the subhuman shits that run around blowing up innocent people for their "cause". If someone were to make such a claim, I am certain that a whole bunch of people from this site would be all over them like stink on shit for condemning a whole religion for the actions of a few extremist groups. And they would be right - Islam is not the "cause" of the extremists, and thereby did not "spawn" them, and saying so IS an attack on the whole as somehow being responsible for extremism - even if indirectly - by simply existing.

Likewise, the anti-abortion movement in no way "spawned" the murderers that have killed abortion doctors and blown up clinics. Saying so is an indirect accusation against the anti-abortion movement, by claiming that the fact the movement exists has resulted in extremist actions. It's a load of crap no matter how "nicely" you try to put it.

In addition, while there are those who vocally advocate taking extreme action, there is no evidence they are in any way even loosely organized into any kind of extremist "group". All extremist actions taken to date have been the actions of individuals. As such, any rhetoric advocating violence should be investigated by traditional law enforcement. Taking it to the level of DHS is another load of crap. The rate things are going saying "the government is a load of crap" will be "a matter of concern to the DHS". DHS was being misused from its inception, and as far as I can see, its only getting worse under this administration of "change".
 
Whomever said:
Bad analogy.
Soldiers were killed in war, the DR was murdered.
Unless you consider the soldiers killed in Iraq as murdered by Bush?

Besides I do not condone protestors at soldiers funerals either. They should be shot. At least in the leg. I do not think anyone should protest at any funeral, even yours.
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Well, but okay... is it fair to blame YOU, and anti-war protester, for the actions of a few nut cases you don't agree with? That is precisely what you are doing here! I don't think anyone should kill abortion doctors or bomb abortion clinics! I also don't think anyone should use someone's funeral as a platform for protest of any kind. It's just flat out wrong, regardless of what the issue is. But you see, I have enough integrity to admit that, and vocally speak out against it, even if it's people who's "cause" I happen to agree with. You, on the other hand, don't have that same integrity, you want to make excuses for why it's okay for anti-war protesters to show up at soldiers funerals, then hide behind your tepid assertion that you disapprove of it.
 
Whomever said:
I too like film/video as a source of leisure. But I do not respect anyone for being a character on a show or movie.
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3D why do you argue with a retarded old man?

He clearly has no point other than to keep running his mouth. Asking him about his opinions only serves to reinforce his misperception that people actually care about his opinions.
 
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