Where's the money coming from?

Onceler said:
Here's where we were in October - January. The banks were failing. Businesses reigned in spending, and laid people off. Consumers lost jobs, and reigned in spending. This, in turn, caused businesses to lay more people off, and reign in more spending.

There really isn't a magical end to this cycle, without some outside stimulus. The gov't spent so that it would create jobs, calm businesses & the markets, and create jobs. This would lead to a more positive cycle than the one described above. And here's the best part: when the economy is humming again, the tax revenue will basically pay back all of the money spent on stimulus.

It's pretty elementary; and it seems to be working...
Click to expand...

How do you figure taxes are going to pay off the trillion dollars the government is spending? I'll make you and side bet you would like the government is getting anywhere near a balance budget in the near future.

And maybe its just that I view things from a different prism but when you talk about the government creating jobs, twice, I do not see a successful economy. What the government needs to do is get out of the way to allow the economy to function and allow the entrepreneurs do what they do best which is innovate and create jobs.
 
cawacko said:
How do you figure taxes are going to pay off the trillion dollars the government is spending? I'll make you and side bet you would like the government is getting anywhere near a balance budget in the near future.

And maybe its just that I view things from a different prism but when you talk about the government creating jobs, twice, I do not see a successful economy. What the government needs to do is get out of the way to allow the economy to function and allow the entrepreneurs do what they do best which is innovate and create jobs.
Click to expand...

The current economic situation can be explained by the economy wanting to save more than it can invest*. Relying on market magic isn't going to cut it.

*Like most of the lines I have spouted on this page, directly lifted from Krugman
 
Here's where we are now. HA, the jobs were government jobs, not private where it could stimulate the economy.

Federal tax revenue plunged 34% or $138 billion in April, versus a year ago. Income tax revenue dropped 44% from a year ago.

Look for a larger budget deficit than predicted this year and in future years. It's only going go get worse.

Onceler said:
Here's where we were in October - January. The banks were failing. Businesses reigned in spending, and laid people off. Consumers lost jobs, and reigned in spending. This, in turn, caused businesses to lay more people off, and reign in more spending.

There really isn't a magical end to this cycle, without some outside stimulus. The gov't spent so that it would create jobs, calm businesses & the markets, and create jobs. This would lead to a more positive cycle than the one described above. And here's the best part: when the economy is humming again, the tax revenue will basically pay back all of the money spent on stimulus.

It's pretty elementary; and it seems to be working...
Click to expand...
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Here's where we are now. HA, the jobs were government jobs, not private where it could stimulate the economy.

Federal tax revenue plunged 34% or $138 billion in April, versus a year ago. Income tax revenue dropped 44% from a year ago.

Look for a larger budget deficit than predicted this year and in future years. It's only going go get worse.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, you don't really know what you're talking about. If you're expecting tax revenues to increase immediately, you don't understand the stimulus, or economics.

Also, you realize that public works help private sector jobs, right? Here's what happens: the gov't commissions a project - say, a bridge. For that bridge, they need materials, suppliers, producers, etc. The people who work the construction & engineering spend money at local restaurants, department stores, supermarkets, etc.

You get picture. I hope.
 
Onceler said:
Fortunately, you don't really know what you're talking about. If you're expecting tax revenues to increase immediately, you don't understand the stimulus, or economics.

Also, you realize that public works help private sector jobs, right? Here's what happens: the gov't commissions a project - say, a bridge. For that bridge, they need materials, suppliers, producers, etc. The people who work the construction & engineering spend money at local restaurants, department stores, supermarkets, etc.

You get picture. I hope.
Click to expand...

Quite like a state or local govt giving tax breaks for a business to locate in their state or locality?

Unlike buying toxic assets from stupid finiancial institutions, the effect is not immediate.
 
I know a lot more than you do, obviously. With all the spinning you do, you must be dizzy all the time. :rolleyes:

Onceler said:
Fortunately, you don't really know what you're talking about. If you're expecting tax revenues to increase immediately, you don't understand the stimulus, or economics.

Also, you realize that public works help private sector jobs, right? Here's what happens: the gov't commissions a project - say, a bridge. For that bridge, they need materials, suppliers, producers, etc. The people who work the construction & engineering spend money at local restaurants, department stores, supermarkets, etc.

You get picture. I hope.
Click to expand...
 
Whomever said:
Quite like a state or local govt giving tax breaks for a business to locate in their state or locality?

Unlike buying toxic assets from stupid finiancial institutions, the effect is not immediate.
Click to expand...

1. No. This mainly concentrates on infrastructure, and doesn't give large corporations a comparative advantage.

2. IMHO, we should've nationalized the financial institutions. Buying assets is better than nothing.

3. The immediate part of the stimulus was the tax cuts.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Obama will find little money left to spend for "change" without printing the money. Remember the "change" Germany had in 1923? God help us if we go that route.
Click to expand...

We were already placed on "that route" courtesy of the Shrub & company. Given that Obama and the Dems are not going to seriously do an about face (which should please Shrubbites), all they will do is forestall the inevitable.
 
Yurt said:
explain to me why it is good for the government but not good private practice....if private citizens had budgets like the government, we would all be bankrupt
Click to expand...

Bad example. How do you factor the credit card industry into your statement? The US people save little, if any, money and credit card debt is monumental.
 
I can't believe this moron's thread on economics is two pages long! Waterhead is a Socialist Communist, what the hell does he know about a Capitalist economy?

We are heading at breakneck speed, toward a $10 trillion debt. Now, maybe that doesn't sound too bad, but when you stop and consider just exactly how much a TRILLION is, it becomes somewhat problematic if we want to remain solvent. This is real debt that we owe to others, not some mythical number designed to scare people.

Now, irrespective of Waterhead's ignorance, this is how our debt works... Those who hold our debt, are not doing so out of the goodness of their hearts, they are charging a nice little chunk of interest. Currently, the single largest expense we have as a nation, is the interest on the massive debt. This expenditure is possible now, but the more our debt grows, the greater this expenditure becomes, and eventually, it will be untenable. That should be obvious common sense to most people, but Waterhead is retarded, so he obviously doesn't understand, you can't continue to borrow to offset what you've overspent. At some point in time, we will reach a ceiling, a cap, a limit, on credit lines, on what we can actually borrow to pay our debts.

Of course, in a perfect world, it would be wonderful if we could pay off the national debt, because that would allow us to spend the money we are now paying on interest, on other important things... like healthcare, housing, education, etc. And we can still manage to maintain adequate programs and stay afloat, if we don't let the debt continue to grow larger and the interest eat up all our revenue. However, the problem is, we can't seem to get to a balanced annual budget, each year, we go a little deeper in debt, adding to the burdensome interest we are already paying, which is the bulk of our national expenditures. This cycle will have to end sooner or later, politicians (especially Democrats) have chosen to make it later, and seem hell bent on spending us into total bankruptcy in record time. What we NEED to do, is cut the federal budget and stop spending money we don't have. But this is not politically popular.

Nope... instead of acting responsibly and getting our finances in order, we are acting like 16-year-old girls with Daddy's credit card! Instead of making tough choices now, to get our federal budget in check, we are living out the liberals wet dreams of socialist utopia. We are letting them literally INVENT new ways to spend more of the money we simply do not have, and it's insane! It can't go on indefinitely, at some point in the future, the chickens will come home to roost. Liberals act like they don't believe this will happen, but it will happen, it can't help but to, and when it does, they will undoubtedly hearken back to the days of Bush spending and blame it soundly on Republicans. Bet on that, because it's the way it will go down.

If the spending continues unfettered as it has been, we will see this happen in our lifetime. Our country will literally go bankrupt, and NONE of the sweet well-intentioned social entitlements the Democrats have worked so hard to get, will be available. It will ALL stop, every last bit of it, until we can regain financial stability in the world, IF we can keep from being overthrown by the Chinese. Yep, times are going to be REALLY rough then, we just THINK they are now.
 
belme1201 said:
Bad example. How do you factor the credit card industry into your statement? The US people save little, if any, money and credit card debt is monumental.
Click to expand...

Since you bring this up, let's use consumer credit as an analogous comparison here. Let's say you make $50k per year, and you have a credit card with a million dollar limit. You've already maxed it out, and your interest charge each month is $5000. Now, this in itself, is more money than you make, so you go out and get another credit card, and use it to pay the interest. (you can't even fathom paying any principle now, because you have to eat.) You've noticed this nice house on the market, and you really do need a roof over your head, so even though you are in debt up to your eyeballs, you buy the house on credit. You get another credit card, so you can make the house payments, and then you spot the car of your dreams! Well, you just have to have it! So, you buy it on credit! But since all of your money is already spent, you can't make the payments, so you work out a deal with the finance company, to let you just pay the compound interest until you can do better. You put the interest payment on yet another credit card. Then you see the boat you've always dreamed of one day owning......

Do you see where this is going? This is exactly how our government is behaving with regard to our national debt. We don't have the money to pay it off, we can't even manage to pay the interest! And all the while, we are finding more and more shit to spend money on that we simply don't have and can't afford! Now just think logically for a moment (waterhead is excused from this exercise), where do you think this winds up? What eventually will happen? Can you just continue to get more credit cards to pay the interest on your debts, while you continue to run up even more debt you can't repay?
 
belme1201 said:
Bad example. How do you factor the credit card industry into your statement? The US people save little, if any, money and credit card debt is monumental.
Click to expand...

You're a cretin. It was a great example. You just like the truly fantastic totalitarian power of creating money out of thin air for your needs and power, and then putting it all on the backs of the people.

For those in government, fiat currency is a magic system of perpetual power. For the people, fiat currency is wonderful debt creating system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top