Finally, even Bill Maher is starting to get it: Where's the Beef?

[Bfgrn]

ok all older jpp members, rack your brains.... i swear ive read the EXACT SAME THING bfg posted above. That's a re-used paragraph line for line.

Hey, maybe it's because half of my post is quotes from Eisenhower & Kennedy

 

[blackascoal]

centrist, pragmatist and charismatic

I suggest that makes for good theatre, but does not necessarily make for good policy.

Being pragmatic is to consider his political fortunes before he considers the policy. If doing the right thing might negatively affect one's political fortunes, the pragmatist won't do it.

Being a centrist removes the word "BOLD" from any of his decisions. All you're going to get from a centrist is incrementalism at best. Does this country need bold leadership or does it need incrementalism?

Being charismatic makes people see what they want to see instead of seeing what is in front of them. Anyone who thought Obama was antiwar, anti-Bush policies, or anti-corporate control of government was imply mesmerized by the charisma/mindfuck. They did not pay attention to what was standing in front of them.

America needs bold leadership and if Obama continues down this path of mealy-mouth accomplishment he's opening the door to the return of the Republican party .. just as Clinton did when he won with about the same hold on Congress that Obama has .. only to lose control just two years later.

Such is The Way of the Centrist.

 

[Bfgrn]

I suggest that makes for good theatre, but does not necessarily make for good policy.

Being pragmatic is to consider his political fortunes before he considers the policy. If doing the right thing might negatively affect one's political fortunes, the pragmatist won't do it.

Being a centrist removes the word "BOLD" from any of his decisions. All you're going to get from a centrist is incrementalism at best. Does this country need bold leadership or does it need incrementalism?

Being charismatic makes people see what they want to see instead of seeing what is in front of them. Anyone who thought Obama was antiwar, anti-Bush policies, or anti-corporate control of government was imply mesmerized by the charisma/mindfuck. They did not pay attention to what was standing in front of them.

America needs bold leadership and if Obama continues down this path of mealy-mouth accomplishment he's opening the door to the return of the Republican party .. just as Clinton did when he won with about the same hold on Congress that Obama has .. only to lose control just two years later.

Such is The Way of the Centrist.

Who would be this bold leader you speak of?

Clinton authored and then tried to jam a health care bill down Congress' throat...how'd that bold move work out?


Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[blackascoal]

I'm with you on this. So far, Obama has done some disturbing moves...but he is a chess player and has patience. People freaking out should remember that the man is a centrist and never claimed to be anything else.

I take him for what he is .. a centrist .. thus I don't expect much .. but he did indeed lead many to believe he was something else. His speeches soared with promises of bold leadership and a rejection of stupid war. But they were filled with nuances that allowed him to back away from the perception he knew he was giving. But that ain't new for Barack Obama, he's done that his entire political career. Much can be discerned about Obama from a race he lost against Congressman Bobby Rush.

Bottom line .. if you're a centrist then you're probably happy with Obama. I have no problem with that, but I'm not a centrist and I didn't vote for Obama. I'll applaud him when I think he's right, but I'll oppose him as vigorously as I opposed Bush when I think he's wrong.

The problem is that the left is weak as doodoo in America and really have no party to represent them .. so they go along to get along .. and the republicans keep coming back.

 

[belme1201]

the only thing Maher is pissed about, is the Obama is not moving to the far left fast enough for him...

Maher is another ugly, hateful liberal comedian, with a mug only his mother could love..

As usual you focus on the important matters at hand.

Have we met?

 

[blackascoal]

Who would be this bold leader you speak of?

Clinton authored and then tried to jam a health care bill down Congress' throat...how'd that bold move work out?


Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

Interesting quote you posted as you defend the timid man.

I'm a socialist brother. I don't see much bold leadership in the United States. We exist in a plutocracy, thus the plutocrats choose the leadership and they attack and destroy anyone who dare show bold leadership.

Frankly, I think Clinton would have been a better president because Obama has shown himself to be every bit as hawkish, but much more timid. Clinton would have pushed for single-payer healthcare .. and she would have had the American people behind that concept. Support that has remained consistently around 60% for a decade.

Obama is much too timid and what we'll get is healthcare tweaking, not healthcare reform.

 

[belme1201]

I've never noticed before, but he IS ugly.

Will the judges please post pictures?

 

[Bfgrn]

Interesting quote you posted as you defend the timid man.

I'm a socialist brother. I don't see much bold leadership in the United States. We exist in a plutocracy, thus the plutocrats choose the leadership and they attack and destroy anyone who dare show bold leadership.

Frankly, I think Clinton would have been a better president because Obama has shown himself to be every bit as hawkish, but much more timid. Clinton would have pushed for single-payer healthcare .. and she would have had the American people behind that concept. Support that has remained consistently around 60% for a decade.

Obama is much too timid and what we'll get is healthcare tweaking, not healthcare reform.

No, the timid man prefers the despot...
Despotism is a form of government by a single authority, either an individual or tightly knit group, which rules with absolute political power.

That would be a synonym for BOLD...

You would have LOVED LBJ...

 

[Damocles]

Johnson is one of those people who stand too closely. He'd wind up chasing me around the room as I backed up. It certainly wouldn't make it so I gave him what he wanted if I thought what he wanted was bad. At some point I probably would have directly asked him to back up and give me some breathing room.

 

[Bfgrn]

Johnson is one of those people who stand too closely. He'd wind up chasing me around the room as I backed up. It certainly wouldn't make it so I gave him what he wanted if I thought what he wanted was bad. At some point I probably would have directly asked him to back up and give me some breathing room.

That's exactly why Johnson he did it; to invade your personal space...LBJ wouldn't have been as effective in Europe where people's personal space is much smaller...

But, love 'em or hate 'em, the "Johnson Treatment" was effective.

Newspaper columnist Mary McGrory described it as "an incredible, potent mixture of persuasion, badgering, flattery, threats, reminders of past favors and future advantages"; Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee recalled feeling that "a St. Bernard had licked your face for an hour, [and] had pawed you all over"; and Hubert Humphrey described it as a "tidal wave."

http://face2face.si.edu/my_weblog/2009/05/lyndon-johnson-and-the-johnson-treatment.html

BUT, he knew his place...

 

[Damocles]

That's exactly why Johnson he did it; to invade your personal space...LBJ wouldn't have been as effective in Europe where people's personal space is much smaller...

But, love 'em or hate 'em, the "Johnson Treatment" was effective.

Newspaper columnist Mary McGrory described it as "an incredible, potent mixture of persuasion, badgering, flattery, threats, reminders of past favors and future advantages"; Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee recalled feeling that "a St. Bernard had licked your face for an hour, [and] had pawed you all over"; and Hubert Humphrey described it as a "tidal wave."

http://face2face.si.edu/my_weblog/2009/05/lyndon-johnson-and-the-johnson-treatment.html

BUT, he knew his place...

I understand why he did it, I was just stating how it wouldn't work with me. It would give me incentive to find out what he wanted and to do the opposite, however I don't work that way anyway in spite of the clear reason I would dislike the guy I'd do what I think is best regardless, but he'd know it wasn't serving him well, even if he was the President.

 

[blackascoal]

No, the timid man prefers the despot...
Despotism is a form of government by a single authority, either an individual or tightly knit group, which rules with absolute political power.

That would be a synonym for BOLD...

You would have LOVED LBJ...

I did love LBJ .. until his Gulf of Tonkin dream.

 

[Taichiliberal]

I take him for what he is .. a centrist .. thus I don't expect much .. but he did indeed lead many to believe he was something else. His speeches soared with promises of bold leadership and a rejection of stupid war. But they were filled with nuances that allowed him to back away from the perception he knew he was giving. But that ain't new for Barack Obama, he's done that his entire political career. Much can be discerned about Obama from a race he lost against Congressman Bobby Rush.

Bottom line .. if you're a centrist then you're probably happy with Obama. I have no problem with that, but I'm not a centrist and I didn't vote for Obama. I'll applaud him when I think he's right, but I'll oppose him as vigorously as I opposed Bush when I think he's wrong.

The problem is that the left is weak as doodoo in America and really have no party to represent them .. so they go along to get along .. and the republicans keep coming back.

I registered as an Independent at 18 and have never seen a reason to change. Since there was no viable 3rd Party candidate, I voted for Obama. Personally, I would've like to have seen a Edwards/Richardson ticket...but then Edwards shot himself in the foot.

I'll give Obama credit where credit is due, and criticism where and when its warranted. And of course, I just enjoy pointing out the outlandish hypocrisy of the neocon GOP in their never ending quest to fantasize about the last 8 years and how it affects us currently.

 

[blackascoal]

I registered as an Independent at 18 and have never seen a reason to change. Since there was no viable 3rd Party candidate, I voted for Obama. Personally, I would've like to have seen a Edwards/Richardson ticket...but then Edwards shot himself in the foot.

I'll give Obama credit where credit is due, and criticism where and when its warranted. And of course, I just enjoy pointing out the outlandish hypocrisy of the neocon GOP in their never ending quest to fantasize about the last 8 years and how it affects us currently.

Although I'm a socialist, we seem to have arrived at the same bolded place my brother.

 

[meme]

Although I'm a socialist, we seem to have arrived at the same bolded place my brother.

I'd say you are a communist..you would have no problem wearing the brown shirts and jackboots, and going around and busting heads, just because you can..

 

[charver]

I'd say you are a communist..you would have no problem wearing the brown shirts and jackboots, and going around and busting heads, just because you can..

I think your old history teacher has just shot himself.

 

[blackascoal]

I'd say you are a communist..you would have no problem wearing the brown shirts and jackboots, and going around and busting heads, just because you can..

Who cares what you say?

I have no doubt that you would have nothing to say if "brown shirts" wearing white sheets went around busting non-white heads because they could.

 

[blackascoal]

I think your old history teacher has just shot himself.

That's a big assumption .. that she ever had a history teacher.

It doesn't appear that she has.

 

[meme]

Who cares what you say?

I have no doubt that you would have nothing to say if "brown shirts" wearing white sheets went around busting non-white heads because they could.

most of those wearing white sheets were DEMOCRATS..perfect example, Byrd, former grand wizard of the KKK, who was put in a position of the government by the DEMOCRATS..dumb shit.

 

[blackascoal]

most of those wearing white sheets were DEMOCRATS..perfect example, Byrd, former grand wizard of the KKK, who was put in a position of the government by the DEMOCRATS..dumb shit.

They were dixiecrats .. but who gives a fuck about their party affiliation ... but YOU. I wasn't pointing the finger at political affiliation, I was pointing at YOU.

... and in case you haven't figured it out, I'm not a democrat.