Health care is not a bowl of cherries

[FUCK THE POLICE]

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/health-care-is-not-a-bowl-of-cherries/

Health care is not a bowl of cherries

Or a carton of milk, or a loaf of bread.

Both George Will and Greg Mankiw basically argue that we don’t need a government role because we can trust the market to work — hey, we do it for groceries, right?

Um, economists have known for 45 years — ever since Kenneth Arrow’s seminal paper — that the standard competitive market model just doesn’t work for health care: adverse selection and moral hazard are so central to the enterprise that nobody, nobody expects free-market principles to be enough. To act all wide-eyed and innocent about these problems at this late date is either remarkably ignorant or simply disingenuous.




There are several links and sources embedded into the words at the link.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/health-care-is-not-a-bowl-of-cherries/

Health care is not a bowl of cherries

Or a carton of milk, or a loaf of bread.

Both George Will and Greg Mankiw basically argue that we don’t need a government role because we can trust the market to work — hey, we do it for groceries, right?

Um, economists have known for 45 years — ever since Kenneth Arrow’s seminal paper — that the standard competitive market model just doesn’t work for health care: adverse selection and moral hazard are so central to the enterprise that nobody, nobody expects free-market principles to be enough. To act all wide-eyed and innocent about these problems at this late date is either remarkably ignorant or simply disingenuous.




There are several links and sources embedded into the words at the link.

Economists are mostly detached elitist statist paid liars.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Economists are mostly detached elitist statist paid liars.

I KNOW THE TRUTH SOMETHING THE EXPERTS ARE PAID NOT TO TELL YOU

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I would LOVE for America to have an intelligent objective debate over health care! I would LOVE to see us completely revamp and overhaul the entire system, and address the fundamental problems, namely cost and availability to all. The problem is, people on the left (currently in power) are too dishonest because they have been fed a pack of lies and distortions from sources beholden to the special interest lobbies involved, who want nationalized government-run health care, and don't want to have an honest debate.

What this all distills down to here, are koolaid-drenched sycophants of whatever MoveOn.org and DailyKos is pushing, repeating the same tired distortions and absurd examples to support their "cause" regarding this very real issue. You don't want an honest debate, or to objectively look at the problem and find solutions that work, you want to ram nationalized socialized government-run medical care down the throats of America, while you have the political power to do so. Be honest about that, okay?

 

[Topspin]

Watergerber do you purchase health insurance?

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I would LOVE for America to have an intelligent objective debate over health care! I would LOVE to see us completely revamp and overhaul the entire system, and address the fundamental problems, namely cost and availability to all. The problem is, people on the left (currently in power) are too dishonest because they have been fed a pack of lies and distortions from sources beholden to the special interest lobbies involved, who want nationalized government-run health care, and don't want to have an honest debate.

What this all distills down to here, are koolaid-drenched sycophants of whatever MoveOn.org and DailyKos is pushing, repeating the same tired distortions and absurd examples to support their "cause" regarding this very real issue. You don't want an honest debate, or to objectively look at the problem and find solutions that work, you want to ram nationalized socialized government-run medical care down the throats of America, while you have the political power to do so. Be honest about that, okay?

This is actually a nobel prize winning economist. But nice try.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

This is actually a nobel prize winning economist. But nice try.

oh yay, appeal to authority, as if that alone makes him right, as if the NP is not a political prize

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

oh yay, appeal to authority, as if that alone makes him right, as if the NP is not a political prize

He said it was from Kos or moveon, an attempt to discredit the source. It's not. It's from a Nobel-prize winning economist.

And it's not a political prize. Milton Friedman and Hayek (Hayek!!!) also won it, along with Steiglitz and Krugman. To say that Krugman doesn't know his stuff around the economy and just wants to push "socialized medicine" is ignorance at it's worst, from anyone who knows anything about him. But what else should I expect from Dixie? I am not going to respond to his trash further in this thread.

And, BTW, the medical-industrial complex has much, much, much stronger lobbying than Kos or Moveon. That's the only reason this common sense measure is even being debated. The only thing we have is truth, the only thing the right has is money. Let's see which wins out.

 

[cawacko]

This is actually a nobel prize winning economist. But nice try.

Krugman won a nobel prize for international trade theory which does not automatically make one an expert on health care. Krugman also writes as a partisan first and economist second. So yes writing for the NY Times gives him a bigger megaphone than most but this man is far from being above reproach.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

And Krugman is sourcing Kenneth Arrow, a neo-classical (not Keynesian) economist in saying that healthcare markets are not subject to normal market forces. Arrow is also a nobel prize winner, BTW, and one of the most important economists of the last century.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

He said it was from Kos or moveon, an attempt to discredit the source. It's not. It's from a Nobel-prize winning economist.

And it's not a political prize. Milton Friedman and Hayek (Hayek!!!) also won it, along with Steiglitz and Krugman. To say that Krugman doesn't know his stuff around the economy and just wants to push "socialized medicine" is ignorance at it's worst, from anyone who knows anything about him. But what else should I expect from Dixie? I am not going to respond to his trash further in this thread.

And, BTW, the medical-industrial complex has much, much, much stronger lobbying than Kos or Moveon. That's the only reason this common sense measure is even being debated. The only thing we have is truth, the only thing the right has is money. Let's see which wins out.

it is a political prize. it may not have started out that way, but it sure is now. don't kid yourself watermark. let's be honest about krugman, his ideas are not the only economic ideas out there, yet, you seem to hold him up as infallible. for you, all things krugman must be right, and of course his political ideals match yours and of course his economic ideals match yours.

your last sentence says it all. you don't see politics or economics in any rational sense, you see it in a vacuum, that is, if it fits your ideas for the world, then of course it must be right. as if the "right" has only money, zero truth.....come on, that is pure partisan BS...and you know it. sometimes i really don't know if you're kidding or serious. so i err on the side of serious as your posts overall exhibit an extreme bias towards the left leaning political spectrum. yet, i believe you're quite intelligent and i can't fathom why you are so narrow minded when it comes to certain ideas. then again, some of the world's greatest geniuses were considered madmen.....

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

it is a political prize. it may not have started out that way, but it sure is now. don't kid yourself watermark. let's be honest about krugman, his ideas are not the only economic ideas out there, yet, you seem to hold him up as infallible.

He just seems to agree with me a lot. Economics is a social science, and although it's better than taking a crapshoot, it's not very accurate.

for you, all things krugman must be right, and of course his political ideals match yours and of course his economic ideals match yours.

His economic ideas aren't necessarily 100% right, but they match mine, and while an expert doesn't prove something by itself, it adds to the argument. The true credibility was Kenneth Arrow's work on the subject.

your last sentence says it all. you don't see politics or economics in any rational sense, you see it in a vacuum, that is, if it fits your ideas for the world, then of course it must be right. as if the "right" has only money, zero truth.....come on, that is pure partisan BS...and you know it.

I've started going into hyperbole mode a lot since the debatepolitics creeps (and dixie) came to this site. If they do it all the time, a liberal needs to do it in response.

sometimes i really don't know if you're kidding or serious. so i err on the side of serious as your posts overall exhibit an extreme bias towards the left leaning political spectrum. yet, i believe you're quite intelligent and i can't fathom why you are so narrow minded when it comes to certain ideas. then again, some of the world's greatest geniuses were considered madmen.....

But mostly, the worlds greatest geniuses were considered geniuses until they became madmen and stopped doing good work. Tesla, Pauling, etc...

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

=Watermark;458873]He just seems to agree with me a lot. Economics is a social science, and although it's better than taking a crapshoot, it's not very accurate.



His economic ideas aren't necessarily 100% right, but they match mine, and while an expert doesn't prove something by itself, it adds to the argument. The true credibility was Kenneth Arrow's work on the subject.

ok.....and there are no other "experts" out there that counter krugman. of course there are, and we are back to this. hands down for the honesty.

I've started going into hyperbole mode a lot since the debatepolitics creeps (and dixie) came to this site. If they do it all the time, a liberal needs to do it in response.

um....i don't know that board, and being a somewhat outsider here, you seem like the one who needs a response. perhaps you have actually become that which you despise.

But mostly, the worlds greatest geniuses were considered geniuses until they became madmen and stopped doing good work. Tesla, Pauling, etc...

tesla....totally fucked up and screwed by oil men and amercian auto makers that some on this board have defended with the billion dollar bailouts....

i'm not familar with pauling, would like to know more

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

This is actually a nobel prize winning economist. But nice try.

Well I know the Nobel Prize is of some great importance to Pinheads, it's like your TOP honor and all, but... it doesn't really impress me, they gave one to Jimmy Carter! Proof that it doesn't mean you know much of anything.

Furthermore, all Krugman seems to say is.... Couple of conservatives want to use an analogy with health care and groceries, but free market capitalism alone, doesn't work with health care. I don't really see an argument, more of a statement, a rebuttal to the conservatives who used an analogy, and an opinion.

Now, is there something in Pinhead World, which says once you win a Nobel Prize, you no longer have to support arguments with anything other than opinion? Do you obtain a special power to render analogies invalid and proclaim your ideology fact, without anyone having the ability to challenge you or question your authority?

The only point Krugman attempts to make is, the current system isn't working! And even that point is not completely accurate, over 80% of Americans are satisfied with the health care insurance and quality of health care in America. Contrast this with the DMV, the US Postal Service, or Congressional approval ratings, and I think 80% satisfaction is pretty indicative there isn't a real problem with the current system.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Well I know the Nobel Prize is of some great importance to Pinheads, it's like your TOP honor and all, but... it doesn't really impress me, they gave one to Jimmy Carter! Proof that it doesn't mean you know much of anything.

Yeah, that's not a logical statement.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Now, is there something in Pinhead World, which says once you win a Nobel Prize, you no longer have to support arguments with anything other than opinion?

Or possibly the work by Kenneth Arrow. Whatever.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The only point Krugman attempts to make is, the current system isn't working! And even that point is not completely accurate, over 80% of Americans are satisfied with the health care insurance and quality of health care in America. Contrast this with the DMV, the US Postal Service, or Congressional approval ratings, and I think 80% satisfaction is pretty indicative there isn't a real problem with the current system.

Which is irrelevant and not the right kind of question. They don't even take approval ratings for the postal service, so I can't help you there, but we do have the best postal system in the world (that includes the horribly privatized muckups that other countries have run into).

And about 2/3 want the system changed. The approval rating is high because the question they asked ignored the cost of the system.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/19/opinion/polls/main5098517.shtml

72% of Americans support the public option. The only question is, how much money are the insurance companies willing to put up to buy senators into damning the American public and keeping their sweet deal?

Oh wait, I forgot to add superfluous exclamation marks to mock you!!!! LOL, and obnoxious smilies. :lmao:

 

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[FUCK THE POLICE]

i'm not familar with pauling, would like to know more

Linus Pauling was a genius, one of only two people ever to win two nobel prizes (he won one in peace and one in chemistry). He went on to spend the rest of his life promoting quack vitamin megadosing cures in books titled like "How to Live Longer and Feel Better!", which cited little evidence and a lot of people unfortunately took as fact because of his credentials. Shows that genius in some areas doesn't always equal genius in all.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Linus Pauling was a genius, one of only two people ever to win two nobel prizes (he won one in peace and one in chemistry). He went on to spend the rest of his life promoting quack vitamin megadosing cures in books titled like "How to Live Longer and Feel Better!", which cited little evidence and a lot of people unfortunately took as fact because of his credentials. Shows that genius in some areas doesn't always equal genius in all.

you do realize you are making my point.....